New Layout.....First Steps??

Bay,

      I am sorry to sound negative, but I would strongly predict that if you build the layout plan that you have posted, you are going to get really bored with it really quickly.  Basically you've just got an inner oval, and and outer oval, and that's it.  Your inner switches and crossroads don't add any exciting cross or counter motions to the moving trains.  They are just used  for parking small trains.

       You will get really really tired of watching you trains repeatedly travel on the long merry-go-round of the outer oval or the inner oval.  (I know this from my first layout years ago, which was very similar.)

      If you haven't already, you might want to read the post just above yours called 5 by 10 layout.  It shows several different styles of layouts, which , with some modifications, could fit on your 4 x8 board.  If those don't interest you, then you may want to check the 4 x8 plans already posted in the library or  search sections of this board, or ask for members to post a few that they have used.  They will be happy to oblige and post many options I am sure.

      You are going to put a lot of time,  effort and money into your layout.   So, you probably want one with more novelty and travel excitement that the one you are considering.

       (Especially, if you have a 10 year old or so who will be operating it.    After a while, he or she will say, "Is this all it does?"  )

       Hope this helps you out.

Mannyrock

Hi Manny,

   Thank you for the info.  I totally understand what you are saying.  I'm actually not doing the cross track and the one switch that leads to it's own separate spur.  Figured that was a waste of time and money. 

This layout is only for a few months (hopefully) until I get into a bigger house.  I'm not going to decorate the layout or anything.  Just laying down some track for me and the boy to mess around on and learning a lot in the process. And I have to keep costs down, as the wife is already giving me "the look!"

I downloaded some pictures of that layout and I agree that it would add a lot to my layout, but for now, I can't get too crazy.  I am going to leave my wires long underneath and like I said, just run this for a few months. 

Thanks again for your advice and please keep it coming in the future!

Bay,

The great thing about O gauge is that you can start out simple, and then add to it.  Just don't put too many hold-down screws in each piece of track, one screw on each end, on opposite track sides, with the next section's screws flipping the right left pattern, is all that you need.  (Your 0-42 curve sections may also need one screw in the center.)

Your switches, though, need to have screws in every hold-down hole, and they need to be tight. Also, the track sections that attach directly to a switch need two screws in the end, right where it joins the switch, again pretty tight. Otherwise, I have found that there will be some up and down "float" in the  switch section, which will cause cars and locomotives to derail when they hit the high spot.

After you finish this first layout, it would be great if  you could post a short fair review of how you liked working with the Tinman's used track.  Any pros or cons.  He is a really nice guy and the price is certainly right.

Mannyrock

Manny,

Awesome info!  Thank you.  Everything you just said sounds like the kind of lessons you have to learn the hard way.  The great thing about this forum is now, I might not have to learn it the hard way.

As far as leaving a review of sorts about the Tinman's track, how would I do that?  Is there a special way of doing that on this forum?  Do I just add another comment on this thread, or create a new post?

As always, thank you in advance.

Bay, It looks like a postwar inspired layout. This is a great start. Don't be too worried about doing it right, after all it's your layout.

Steve

Nothing wrong with your "starter" layout. In fact I think it's excellent for a beginning 4x8.

To me, the important concept at this stage is just getting track down and learning about laying track, wiring, maybe a little scenery and/or buildings.

The rest will come later, especially since you did mention this is probably temporary anyway.

Good luck.

Fantastic!!!!  Just go for it!!!!

You are off to a great start.  You will learn a tremendous amount and the fact that you will probably be moving allows you to take that knowledge with you.  Start enjoying the hobby NOW!

I went through 15 iterations of planning... and still made enormous changes once the build started.  I... like my layout ...am in a constant state of evolution.

Thanks everyone for your advice and encouragement.  It is greatly appreciated. 

Bay,

I think most folks would just post a review in the 3 rail toy train board, by just posting a new thread with an appropriate title.  Nothing formal required.

Mannyrock

Hi Bay Tripper!

Welcome to the hobby!

Am I understanding that you have a grid construction topped by Homasote?

IS there a plywood base under the Homasote, or just grid onto which you placed a piece of Homasote?

If there is no sub bed for the Homasote, it is going to sag because of having no sub bed beneath it. The plywood will also help to minimize the Homasote's reaction to humidity and temperature changes. That's the purpose of the plywood: To help hold the Homasote in place and give it needed support.

I'm currently on my 6th layout covering a span of more almost 60 years. I've used Homasote for decades. It's a great product and unsurpassed for use on layouts, but you must understand that it's not as stable as plywood (it reacts more to humidity/temp range) and will not support as much weight without sagging.

Is there a sheet of plywood (at least 1/2") under your Homasote?

EDIT: Fixed some fat-finger syndrome. (Duh)

Andre

@laming posted:

Is there a sheet of plywood (at least 1/2") under your Homasote?

Andre

BINGO!!!  Good Catch Andre!~!

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

BINGO!!!  Good Catch Andre!~!

Given the layouts I've built over the years (both personal and commercial), just sharing lessons learned the hard way, my friend.

Andre

Just my two cents and not to burst your bubble but, for me, it wouldn't be worth it for a few months of enjoyment to build this on a plywood/homasote grid frame and then have to take it down in a relatively short period of time.

You  might consider just setting it up on the floor/carpet and running it that way for a few months. You'll be able to set out your basic wiring; lay out some structures and scenery; and, best of all, run some trains. In addition, it will also give you the added benefit of being able to see how things work out and where things can be improved upon when setting it up permanently at your new house.   

Hey guys,

   I DO just have the homasote on the grid.  But it is 16" on center support (joists).  It is already built and pretty sturdy for at least a handful of months.  I need to keep it light to make it easier to carry out of the basement.  When we get to a new house, it will probably be taken apart and stretched out a little bit.  So, I'm not going crazy on screwing it down. 

I know what you're saying about the homasote not being too strong by itself, but it does seem ok for now.  I was actually surprised at how rigid it was after placing it on top of the framework.  In my picture, you can see the screws on the side rail.  There is only one track joint in between my supports.

When it does turn into a bigger permanent layout, I will definitely add some 1/2" ply underneath it.

I think I might have $50 in the homasote and framework.  Just trying to keep it light and simple for now.

Thanks again!

Notwithstanding the fact that you are moving soon, I would still vote in favor of the plywood subroadbed. I think you could probably still move the layout as a unit when the time comes. You may have to barrow, or even rent, a full size pickup truck and make a special trip on moving day to get the layout from the old house to the new one depending on how far apart they are. As to the boredom objection raised above, that is in the eye of the beholder. I think you should just operate as is for a while and see what it is really like. I personally enjoy watching trains run.I do like to run them at realistic speeds.  The beauty of tubular track is that you can change it up easily at anytime if you want to.

Bay,

Just some hopefully helpful info.

I know you will probably delay putting the plywood on the table, but just a few things to keep in mind:

In the construction world, half-inch plywood on 16 inch centers is the absolute minimum (not a maximum) for a flat surface so it won't sag.  Homesot is glued chopped-up paper, and it will sag, and even a small sag between centers will ruin your layout.  Homesot is not a structure sheathing.  It is for soundproofing, insulating, and other functions.

Just in case you may change your mind about putting down the plywood before you move, remember that a sheet of half inch plywood is not that heavy.  Depending on the grade you use, I think it runs about 35 to 40  pounds or so.   If you are hiring movers, the table will still be very light for them to move and carry.  Even a 150 pound table is child's play for movers.

When you decide to buy your plywood, I would recommend that you use get B-C grade (a B face, and a C back).  It is almost totally smooth on the B side (knot-holes filled) , and this will prevent  problems in the future.  You can get it at Lowe's.  It is really strong.

Although others may disagree, I strongly recommend against CD-X plywood, which is really the cheapest structure plywood you can buy, and has lots of "voids" on its side and interior, because of the unfilled knot holes.   They sell this at Lowe's too, and you can take a look at both grades within a few feet of other.  Be sure to flip them over and look at both sides.

You could probably get away with using a good grade of 3/8ths inch plywood (generally Home Depot sells it, but not Lowe's) IF before putting it down you put a good brand of adhesive epoxy down on the tops of the cross members, headers, footers and side boards of your table frame.   Both Lowe's and Home Depot sell "PL-3" construction epoxy in a caulk size tube, for around $8.00.  If you use this, be sure to have someone help you lift and place the plywood down on the frame almost exactly perfectly onto the wet epoxy, because once it is down, it will be "gripped" and it may be almost impossible to slide it, unless you do so immediately and use some force (like hammer taps).  After 30 seconds or so, forget it.  It ain't gonna move.  Then, get out of the basement for 8 hours or so, because the adhesive odor will absolutely make you pass out in a closed room.

The 3/8ths and epoxy will create a very very rigid table top, but if you ever have to put alot of weight on it between the cross members, it will probably flex somewhat.  This may or may not give you cracks etc. in any landscaping you put down.

Mannyrock

Bay,

Just keep going, it's the only way you will learn what is best for you.

Steve

Keep Going!!!!  Add the plywood when you move!

I used 15/32 (Plugged & Sanded) because someone stole the other 1/16th!  I framed mine in *roughly* 4' x 5' or 6' sections and carried each section up my spiral (25 steps) to the attic by myself and I'm 67.  At the time (Sept. 2020) I weighed 238 and could easily walk (or, roll) around on it without a creak or groan... well, I may have groaned.  It can be taken apart and moved... but, that ain't happinin!

I also used *sound board* on top of the plywood which is the same as homasote except its from sugar cane stock after the sugar is processed.   I've used both & both are good products for modelling.

Dennis,

Not to worry.  There is no such thing as true 1/2 construction plywood anymore.  That is the current "common" name, but several years ago, manufacturers found that they could cheat, and make it thinner, and save money, by going to to 15/16, robbing you of 1/16th.  The reason they got away with it is that due to the "modern adhesives and glues" used in making plywood today, they convinced the APA (American Plywood Association) that the thinner new plywood is just as strong as the older thicker plywood.

Glad you got the plugged and sanded plywood.  (This is generally B/C sanded).   Cost a few more bucks, but the plugged knotholes are really worth it.

P.S. to Bay:   If you go the epoxy route, you will need two tubes of the stuff, because it is pretty thick.  And, you should still screw it down after the epoxy is dry.

Mannyrock

It is looking great. Enjoy !!!

This forum blows me away.  So many people giving so much advice and encouragement.  If only the rest of the world could be like this forum, you know?

Please don't anyone think that I am not taking your advice seriously.  I am listening to all of it, and will apply all of it at the proper time.  I spent a few minutes tonight and connected all of my track, tightened the pins, and screwed it down.  I only had to cut one special piece.  Elsewhere on the forum I read numerous opinions on cutting tubular track.  I opted for the angle grinder.  I needed a little piece about 1-1/4" long.  It worked great.  The layout came together exactly as the pictured plan, except for only needing one custom cut. 

Tomorrow hopefully I will have time to wire it up and try to make sense of the switches.  Remote switches are a new territory for me. 

If you want the switches to work off the track power,simply connect the three wires from the controller to the three binding posts on each switch. Power up the track from your transformer as you normally would to run a train. Flip the controller lever back and forth. The switch should operate. If the swivel rail position matches the color light on the controller, green for normal, or straight, red for diverging or curved, you're done. If not, simply roll the wires at the switch as needed. If you want to use your transformer fixed accessory voltage, then you must run a hot wire from the correct binding post on the transformer to the little plug on the side of the switch machine, after you insert the plug. Refer to the instructions for your particular transformer.

@Bay Tripper posted:

This forum blows me away.  So many people giving so much advice and encouragement.  If only the rest of the world could be like this forum, you know?

Please don't anyone think that I am not taking your advice seriously.  I am listening to all of it, and will apply all of it at the proper time.  I spent a few minutes tonight and connected all of my track, tightened the pins, and screwed it down.  I only had to cut one special piece.  Elsewhere on the forum I read numerous opinions on cutting tubular track.  I opted for the angle grinder.  I needed a little piece about 1-1/4" long.  It worked great.  The layout came together exactly as the pictured plan, except for only needing one custom cut.

Tomorrow hopefully I will have time to wire it up and try to make sense of the switches.  Remote switches are a new territory for me. 

Excellent progress!

Peter

Hello all,

   I started wiring up the track tonight.  I got all of the wires ran and the power drops connected.  I need to double check on how to wire the switches yet, but I figured it would be a good idea to power up the track and give it a test run.  Make sure my power is smooth and no bad track joints.

I am happy to say that our engine and a few cars made quite a few laps around the track, inside and outside ovals with no derailments or power losses!  The 031 curves were a struggle, but I was able to crank the speed up a little bit with no issues.

This was my first time ever using tubular track.  I worked with the FasTrack that came with the starter set, but I think tubular is way more versatile.  At least so far.  I was able to cut it and make it work.  I don't think that is as easy with FasTrack.  Either way I am happy with the outcome and thankful for all of your help and advice.