New Layout-Pt 1 (Initial Planning)

Suzie and I have to move a LOT of stuff around in order to pretty much CLEAR the Living Room area.  Furniture, bookcases, lamps, videos, books, nic-nacs, et al..

I will dismantle the 5 x 9 layout and take all FASTRACK items and see about selling the material as it was all NEW and hardly been used.

 

My wall display rack has to be taken down and equipment put aside !  The souvenir plates (lowest row only) next to the wall display rack also have to come down.

Two or three bookcases shown in photo have to be moved into dining room and placed along wall where the plates and wall display rack currently reside !

 

I retired from the 'Bell System' as of October 25, 2014 after just barely under 50-years in the telephone business, maintaining Central Office switching equipment.

I know what multitudes of wires and ckt cards and power packs and batteries are all about !  (grin)

Since I retired, I consider my retirement present plus my November 16th birthday present plus my Christmas present plus my New Years-2015 present to be the vast amount of money Suzie has let me spend in my new exciting undertaking!

I have bought additional power packs, relays, wire, accessories (including the SAW MILL), rolling stock, steam locos, diesels, trolleys, and whatever--just having a field day "writing checks" and loading up my SUV.

 

SO-- my Adventure awaits !!!  As soon as the dining room and the living room get cleaned out and/or re-arranged.  Wish me luck !!  I'll keep you guys posted on my exploits!

 

Cheers.

KRK

congrats on your retirement, and your new endeavor. Look forward to following the progress.

 

Question - any idea the make of that trolley barn in photo #8? Would love to have something like that on my second level layout expansion.

 

Tim 

Hi Tim--  Can't answer your question about the Trolley Barn,  You might search here on OGR for 'trolley barn' and see what you get!

 

KRK

Well guys-- It is 1230 pm on February 4, 2015.  Yesterday would have been my Father's 104th birthday!  How 'bout that !  Except that he passed years ago.

 

Anyway, I'm on my way downstairs to start dismantling my small 5 x 9 temporary layout.

Will save all the tubular track and sell all the FASTRACK as a group.  Includes adapter sections, insulated sections, 3 manual switches, 1 pair remote switches.  I will let you know what the tally is.  Never know, some of you FASTRACK guys might be interested !!

 

I have to strip the plywood top and then will lift it off the top of our dining room table and stand it up against the wall !  I have a lady possibly interested in the dining room and living room furniture.  It needs to all get out of the way!  Then Suzie and me can shuffle book cases around and see how much total square footage will be available for the new layout !!

 

I want to see if the bookcases placed against the North wall of the dining room can be adjusted to centrally store my collection of railroad books- of which several are quite rare!  Right now there are a bunch in my Workshop.  A bunch in our Family room, several in my upstairs office, and another bunch in my upstairs hallway !  Most are hardbounds ! (and heavy!!)  This collection has taken years to accumulate!

 

Between the living room and family room and stairway upstairs landing, there are many dozens of VHS and DVD RR videos.  I know--I'm NUTS, huh ?

 

Once the living room floor area is cleaned off and vacated, it will be thoroughly vacuumed and then covered by those 2' x 2' colored interlocking foam panels to protect the carpet !  Might make my tired old feet feel better too.

 

SO-- Off I go downstairs to get started!  When the basic train tables get built, they will be covered by Homasote and Cork layers for maximum sound deadening!

More on all this later on.  First things first !!!   ALL ABOARD !!

 

KRK

Hi Everybody..  It's now 6:05 pm, PST on Wednesday, February 4, 2015...

I have completed the basic dismantling of my 5 x 9 temporary layout in the dining room.

All the tubular track has been taken up and stacked.  All the FASTRACK has been taken up and stacked in a separate pile.  ALL wiring disconnected from the 'train board' ..

Looks kind of strange..   Once all the equipment sitting around on the plywood top is lifted off and temporarily stored, Suzie and I can lift the plywood top off of the dining room table and lean it against the North wall.  Probably this Saturday morning!

I have quite a few pieces of FASTRACK I'll be selling SOON !  Let me know if interested!  More progress in the coming days !!

 

KRK

Ken

 

Looking at your proposed layout, how will equipment be "turned" at the end of the layout or will it be traction not requiring turning?

 

Bill

Ken,

I am glad you got started.  I will look forward to following your project.

 

I work for a telecommunications company also.  I have been a technician, field engineer, technician, and now engineer with several companies dating back 39 years.

Hi Bill- I do NOT have a "definite" track plan quite as yet.  Will advise when I get done 'engineering' the thing because I don't use that fancy software some of you do.

YES, there will be TRACTION on the layout besides other things.  Both 3-rail and 2-rail

types.. I am designing a 3-rail // 2-rail interchange track where trains can meet up and exchange passengers with Sacramento Northern and Pacific Electric riders.  It will be unusual maybe, but allows me to re-live my days at EBMES in Oakland, CA so many years ago.  Stay tuned --you won't believe what's coming in the near future !

 

KRK

Very exciting !

Hi Ken,

Good time for a fresh start on a layout with the start of the next chapter of your life. Congratulations!

 

You reference tables, I would recommend L-girder framing with 1/2" ply. If tables are your thing, still use the 1/2" ply. You can still dance on it.

 

Forget the homosote- with Midwest Cork roadbed you'll get really good sound attenuation.

 

3/4" ply and homosote and a load of 2 x 4's are simply heavy. Take it easy on yourself and Suzy.

 

Since you will be using both rooms, find the least intrusive location for the books and train shelves in either of the rooms. Perhaps a new organizing/storage system is in order.

 

A few other train room items:

Can you get a dedicated electrical circuit in each room for the trains? Perhaps tied to a master wall switch.

 

Consider lighting

 

perhaps some new paint-sky on top-layout level up.

 

Well, that's more than 2¢ worth.

 

Have fun!

Hi Everybody--  I have ATTACHED four photos to show the small layout table and how I have been dismantling stuff.  The poles were all knocked down as of about 10:35 AM, PST, this morning..  More later !

 

KRK

The four major support tables are shown in the attached photos.  This will not be the only support items.  I do NOT wish to nail, screw or bolt anything to the living room floor through the Carpet.  I believe there will be an abundance of weight to hold everything in place !

The attached photo shows one of four support platforms to get the layout started. Dimensions are 46"W by 24"D x 30.25"H ...

I was also thinking of building a GRID of 2 x 6's re-enforced by 2 x 4's with the 2 x 6 pieces mounted on their edge.  This way, once the plywood is laid on top of this GRID, there will be a lot of space, in places, (5-inches minimum) where you can get your hands underneath to pull wires through and so forth.

The next photo shows a general sketch of the idea.

Anyway, more reports later.  Tomorrow (Saturday), Suzie and I will lift the old layout's plywood top off of the dining room table and lean it up against the wall.  I got to get busy and get this furniture out of the way !

 

Cheers.

 

KRK

Congrats on retirement and good luck on the layout build!

-Greg

Hi Everybody--  This has been SLOW going.  As of this morning, Thursday, February 26th--the movers arrived at 0930 hours and carted off our nice Dining Room set plus the big Sofa in the Living Room.  My tuxedo cat "Prancer" (15y) did NOT like that because he loved sleeping on the top of the Sofa.

Now with the critical furniture out of the way, Suzie and I can start planning where to start!  We want to use all the open space to assemble FOUR main support tables; THREE major bookcases; one roll around TV cart from Walmart.  Took the advice from an OGR Forum member on the Walnut cart.  $ 19.88 plus tax plus shipping.  Will use cart for ZW's et al and controls.  When NOT in use--cart will be wheeled under layout out of the way!

Living Room is stacked high with various Lionel boxes..  Workshop is crowded with various Lionel boxes as well as MTH/Rail-King..  I know-- I'm NUTS!!

Have tons of Track, Wire, Relays--  et al..  More to come.  Yesterday, UPS brought me a case of MTH passenger cars.  I need to find suitable Santa Fe diesel locomotives for pulling them.  Am attending the big UNW Train Show & Swap Meet at the Monroe, WA fairgrounds this Saturday.  Come say 'HI' if in the area!  Suzie and I have Table # 1 in the 4H Building.    Anyway, once the supporting tables are set up, I will be constructing an  open grid using 2 x 6's on their EDGE.  Plywood tops will then be laid on top of that.  This will generate 5 1/2-inches of space between plywood tops and supporting tables to make it easy to have space for running wires!   More to come...

 

Cheers.

KRK

Ken,

I'm glad you got the furniture removed to make room for the new layout.

Hi Everybody--

This project has hardly gotten off the ground.  I apologize!!  Too many personal things interfering!  Anyway, this past Saturday, Suzie and I got the furniture removed from the Living Room that "needed" to be removed.  We took down the train display rack in the dining room and sat it in front of the gas fireplace (which is totally turned off) to help keep cool air from blowing in.  Besides the central heat generated by our furnace, there is another gas fireplace in the Family Room where we spend most of our time!

 

We unpacked the cartons containing those "support tables" (4) that I was going to use to support the plywood tops as shown in Photo 1.  Boy, what a mess !  Cardboard, foam, peanuts, snow-- all over the place.  Monday I packed my SUV to the gills and hauled everything out to the Dump..  Cleaned the living room and rinsed off our deck.

 

We assembled the four tables.  Suzie felt they were too flimsy or shaky to support a layout with heavy locomotives.  So-- what to do ?

We placed one in my upstairs office to use for sorting paperwork and photos.  She wants to use two of them on our deck when we have parties !  The fourth one is being relegated (sic) to my Shop area between our Kitchen and the garage.

 

We already owned TWO 6-foot commercial tables which will safely support 2000 lbs and which Suzie has "deeded" to me.  (6 ft long by 30" wide)  See Photo 2.

 

Then Suzie surprised me again this morning my "deeding" me another similar table, but smaller, to add to the 'supporting structures' ... (4 ft long by 24" wide)  ...

See Photo 3.  It supports a MAX load of 850 lbs.  Then I have a couple of heavy duty shelf units (bookcases) that will add further support as needed.  See Photo 4.

 

TWO additional Commercial-grade tables (6 foot by 30") as shown previously in

Photo 2 have been ordered from "Lifetime" in Utah for $ 300.00 !  How 'bout a loan, guys ?  (grin)  They are going out to me tomorrow via FedEx.

 

So, with FOUR commercial tables, a slightly smaller commercial table and a couple of heavy-duty bookcases, I hope to hold this "dream layout" in the air and not let it fall !

All track (98 %) will be Tubular.  Lionel 022 switches, couple of 072 switches, possibly two Ross switches.  Relays, lights, wire, Simpson analog meters, TVS diodes, 10-amp circuit breakers, Power tap switches, toggle switches, Ohmite 20-watt power resistors, extra lockons, extra steel pins, extra fiber pins, 200 grain of wheat bulbs (for buildings), approx. 30 insulated track sections, Two 'ZW', One "KW" and One "LW" transformer(s) for primary power, have been purchased and are at the ready ! Other units on-hand for Secondary AC and DC applications...  TWO  3300+ joule 15-amp Suppressor power strips (to protect transformer inputs) ..  All power units to be properly PHASED as required !

With a FIFTY year background in Electronics (High school, college, Navy and Bell System) I believe I can get this all figured out.  Thanks to a lot of YOU for various ideas.  Of course "Gunrunner John", "Dale H." and others are wondering what in the hell is he doing ? (grin)

 

Besides photos, circuit diagrams will be saved on a CD and shared with you guys as we go along!  Sound fair ?

Later this evening, I will order my lumber online from Home Depot and some joist hangars and pick it up later this week.  I'm busy this weekend though.  Suzie and I are participating in the TNW (Tacoma Northwestern) Train Show and Swap Meet at Freighthouse Square in Tacoma, WA.  Pop in and say hello if you're in the area !  We'd be glad to meet you...

 

By the way, my Walmart roll-around cart that was suggested by an OGR forum member remains to be assembled to roll power equipment under the layout when not in use.  Suzie told me this morning to take the one from upstairs as well as I'll probably need the capacity and storage!  (What a gal!!)

Wish me luck-- starting soon..  Thanks for everyone's support!  I'll keep you all advised.  Just getting a SLOW start..

 

Cheers.

 

Ken Shattock  (KRK)

Ken,

i have my 4x8 on a 6 foot commercial grade folding table.  Works great for me.  Looking forward to seeing your progress.

So far I have the lumber stacked in the dining room..  4 2x4's,  8 2x6's.. Three 6-foot x 30" tables are now in place in the Living Room.  (See photo)  Suzie gave me more real estate in the Dining Room, so the 4th 6-foot x 30 " table will run into that area from the stub of the white table shown sticking out in photo.

A 30" high bookcase will parallel the main table, near fireplace, spaced 17" out to allow Access.  One 2-foot by 48" table will extend out from the main tables, poking into the front hallway area!  (see photo)  4th photo shows my two track walkers:

Casey (Siamese) and Prancer (Tuxedo).. Both 15-yrs old.

 

Tomorrow, April 3rd, my contractor neighbor and a co-worker are supposed to be coming over to put the lumber grid in place.  (I hope!!)

Last photo depicts an assortment of goodies waiting for TRACK to appear !  More in garage!

More later.

Cheers.

KRK

Great project.

I am looking forward to your progress.

 

Peter

 

BTW......congrats on your retirement.

 

Peter

 

Cute Cats...

Ken,

looks like you are ready for some serious building!  Yes, the brown tables look like the one I have my 4x8 on.  Solid as a rock.  I am waiting to see how it works using several.

 

Your track wankers look like they are ready to go!  Our little terrier loves to bark at the trains.  Can't hear the sound systems when she's on the job.

LET THE BUILDING COMMENCE !!!  (finally)

 

Hi Everybody:

The contractors showed up this morning promptly at 9:00 am and got right to work. They were VERY clean in their work..  Cut all lumber outside !  Vacuumed the room and layout top when done.  Nice guys--  GREAT neighbor !  Zeb and Erik work for HIM !

THREE hours labor !!

 

First off, a few construction photos !

 

The piece of wood on the wall to the right of the fireplace is to hold one end of the planned trolley yard.  Initial wiring was run during construction:  Red & White (14 ga) plus 25-pair cable to the future Trolley Yard.  Yellow & White (14 ga) plus 25-pair cable to future "heavy electric" yard.  Blue & White (14 ga) plus 25-pair cable to Steam and Diesel "engine terminal" ... More to come ...

 

Photo 7. Start of 2 x 5 foot extension for Steam & Diesel "Engine Terminal" location starting to physically intrude on the General Manager's dining room area !  This necessitated additional property rights being granted by Suzie !

 

Photo 10.  Closeup of the future Trolley Yard support bracket.

 

Photo 11.  Initial 14-gauge power wiring and 25-pair control cable run thru holes drilled thru 2 x 6 cross braces during construction.

 

Photo 12.  4-foot extension for future "Heavy Electric" Yard will start from this edge of white table toward the camerman and "possibly" intrude on a small portion of our Front Hallway.  This will entail in-depth negotiations with Suzie.

 

My two Assistant Trainmasters (Prancer & Casey) --(Tuxedo and Siamese Cats) will have to be appeased as well.  I plan on making them a "Deluxe Bedroom" under the layout for blissful sleep sessions during the day !

 

Some 47-years ago at the old Eastbay Model Engineers Society layout on Halleck Street in the industrial section of Oakland/ Emeryville, the Santa Fe Western was the name of our monster O-scale layout.  Depicted as running from Richmond to Barstow.  During the week sometime, a Momma cat made an encampment inside one of the Barstow area tunnels and had a litter of kittens therein.  Rather than be nasty and remove them, we gave them a saucer of milk inside the Tunnel.

 

To this day, I doubt very much that the Momma Cat realized that her kittens were being brought up on the Santa Fe mainline !

 

Cheers.

 

KRK

 

KRK

 

Looks rock solid to me.  Thanks for sharing all the photos!

Hi Everybody--  Today was BUSY even though it's Easter Sunday.  Assembled the Walmart TV roll-around cart;  assembled the two supporting bookcases;  drilled a couple of more holes for pre-wire.  Ran a black/red 12-gauge pair to the Trolley Yard area; Ran a black/red 12-gauge pair to the "Heavy Electric" Yard area.  Tomorrow I need to run a blue/white 14 gauge pair, and a 12-gauge black/red pair, and a 25-pair cable to the Steam/Diesel "engine terminal" area.  More to come.  My Chef is calling for Dinner.  Flank Steak, vegeables, noodles, brown gravy, salad..  Strawberry shortcake for desert, with whip cream.  Good Wine !!   more to come...

 

KRK

The remaining 2 x 6 studs have been marked and cut by ME this afternoon to create two more "islands" for supporting the layout.  One is 22" x 46" and the other is 19" x 43".

All I have to do is fasten them together using three-inch brass wood screws.  The plywood tops for these islands have been marked out this afternoon, but need to be cut with my Skil saw.  I'll be going out there to do that in about ten minutes.  After they are assembled and put in place, the remaining pre-wiring will be installed.

The "Heavy Electric" Yard (approx. 19 x 43) is presently fed by a white/yellow 14-gauge pair, a black/red 12-gauge pair plus a 25-pair control cable.

The "Desert Yard" (22 x 46) will be fed by a green/yellow 14-gauge pair, a black/red 12-gauge pair plus a 25-pair control cable.

The "Engine Terminal" is fed by a White/Blue 14-gauge pair, a black/red 12-gauge pair plus a 25-pair control cable.

Good wife 'Suzie' wants to place our # 305 Hellgate Bridge near the "Engine Terminal".

So my thinking is to have "double-track" cross the bridge, with the outboard track immediately connect to a Ross 4-way Yard turnout powered by a Dz1000 machine.  I'll worry later about the other track that will cross the bridge.  By the way, we want to TRY and have a "second level" on a part of this layout.  Depending on the radius limitations, we'll see!  That's it for now.  Cheers.

 

KRK

Getting very close to serious layout construction.  Tomorrow (Friday) I'll be ordering a couple of cases of Midwest roadbed.  This weekend I have to clean up the Dining Room and my workshop.  Getting rid of junk, clutter, and trying to fiond a storage spot for an abundance of model trains, et al.  Suzie is converting the Dining Room to use as her "Parlor".  Maybe I can invite some of you guys over for a "High Tea" session.  (grin)

 

Between the stuff in the Dining Room and the stuff in my workshop, I think I have drastically overdone it!  Oh well..  I can alternate the motive power and try to keep the batteries charged up.  Cheers.

 

KRK

Late last night (Thursday) I sent off a FAX order to ROSS and ordered two cases of Midwest Roadbed.  Gettin' serious, huh ?

The attached photo shows a rough sketch of the area between my proposed Engine Terminal and my "Heavy-electric Yard" utilizing an 072 RH switch and a 22.5 degree crossover.  So the primary mainline will cross the double track line coming off the # 305 Hell Gate Bridge.

 

Cheers.

 

KRK

Irony-I had the same thought tonight!  Amazing the stuff we collect for the ultimate layout of the future in our heads!

 

Can't wait to see more progress.  Keep us posted.

Moving right along! Notes to self:

 

Hi Everybody--  In today's mail I received two cases (150-feet) of Midwest Cork Roadbed

from Ross.  Together with 75-feet of Midwest HO roadbed and another 30-feet of HO cork roadbed by model-power I already had in stock, I should have plenty to get a good start.

 

Once I finalize the track plan, the trackage for Level I will be laid out.  Level II will come a little later.  Total layout area will be roughly 130 square feet.  Not huge but something to have fun with !  I printed out the procedure from one of the Forum members on how to lay the cork roadbed and track.  Using tubular !

Also thinking of adding scale wood ties from Kappler Mill & Lumber Company to enhance the realism of the track appearance.  Comments ??

 

Thanks for your attention everybody !!

 

KRK

KRK, you're doing great, and thanks for taking us along with the photos and descriptions.

 

As for scale ties w/ tubular track, I've never done it, but I've seen photos here that use them to great effect.

The ATTACHED drawing gives you an idea of the various support structures for the planned layout.  I drew these to 3/4" scale on small size drawing paper (graph).

EACH rectangular symbol is constructed of 2 x 6 kiln dried whitewood studs with 1/2" thick plywood tops.  There are also 2 x 6 re-enforcing cross-members along the length of each structure as required.  I didn't want the plywood to sag.

In the drawing, the symbol shown on the mid-upper left of page sits on a table with a max support limit of 850 pounds.  YES--  850 ...  the other large symbols sit on tables with a max support limit of 2000 pounds !!   Again, YES--I said 2000 pounds !!!!  Each table has a warranty span of TEN years ...  (Hey--have to be careful.. Some of these MTH/Rail-King guys are darn HEAVY !!)  The small, skinny rectangular symbol in upper top right of drawing will be a platform of about 15 x 35 inches running to a bracket on the wall of the living room, already placed by my contractors.

 

During initial placement of all of this heavy lumber, certain pre-wiring was done, wherein one pair of 12-gauge wires,  one pair of 14-gauge wires and one length of 25-pair cable were run to each table unit as indicated by the symbols.  12 and 14-gauge pairs are stranded copper.  10 amp re-settable circuit breakers will be installed as required.  Also TVS diodes everywhere, as required.  Bought plenty from Mouser.

Primary power provided by a re-built ZW-R,  a re-built ZW, and a re-built KW transformer.  A separate 12 vAC and 24 vAC transformer used for misc requirements.

And, a separate 30 AMP, 12 vDC regulated power supply for still "other" functions, as required !!  My power meter will probably be spinning .  (grin)     More to come ...

 

KRK

Hi Everybody--  Happy Mother's Day !!!  Well, Suzie came home from work one day this past week and said I have an idea !  I said WHAT ??

She says let's tie all the modules together (anchor them) by using fresh plywood. It will give us one large area for laying track.  Sounded good so I said OK !  I finished screwing down the last couple of pieces earlier this morning.

Let's take a look at the photos :

 

Photo 1.  Grand View

 

Photo 2.  Trolley Yard

 

Photo 3.  Reverse Loop (027)

 

Photo 4.  Looking back toward Front Window from Dining Room

 

Photo 5.  Looking across toward Fireplace.

 

Photo 6.  Access Area  (for reaching center of layout)

 

Photo 7.  Revised module location sketch showing space available !

Any measurements in parenthesis are actual distance.  Layout table is about 35-inches from the carpet. Photo 3 depicts the sharp reverse loop at far end of Trolley Yard using 027 radius track--- enables Trolleys to swing around the yard full of trolleys.  Suzie has a LOT of them !  Outside main line loop will be 072.  Inner loop 054.  On the trolley reverse loop, there will be pieces of Masonite fastened to plywood to raise the elevation of track so that it mates with 031.  More to follow-- Cheers..

 

KRK

OK Everybody--  The Roadmaster has his track gangs at work and the attached photos give you an idea of what's going on at present.

Photo 1.  The outer mainline (072) snakes across the diamonds in front of the Interurban/Trolley Yard.  The main is crossing two 45-deg x-overs and a 22.5 deg x-over.  The AUX mainline (054) will necessitate crossing THREE 45-deg X-overs so as to catch up to its parallel buddy (the 072 line)..  Once on the straight-away in front of the living room window, the two of them will cross the # 305 Hell Gate Bridge.

 

Photo 2.  The Interurban/Trolley Yard space is 30" x 5-feet.  Two of the tracks do NOT connect to anything.  Suzie didn't like all the switches so she said we could display most of the trolleys in the Yard and put whichever one we wish to operate on the track.

The end of the Yard contains an 027 Reverse Loop.

 

Photo 3.  Closeup of the mainline (072) where it goes thru the 22.5 deg X-over next to the Interlocking Tower.  The operator in that Tower will be very busy !

 

Photo 4.  Another view of the Interurban/Trolley Yard looking from the Dining Room into the Living Room toward the front window !

 

Photo 5.  A view of the two mainlines.  Outer loop is 072--  the inner loop is a combination of 054 and half-straight pieces to attempt to keep both lines parallel to each other.  Right now, these tracks are not fastened down until I'm sure. When ready, I will also insert pieces of Midwest roadbed.  Hey, I'm having pretty good luck with this stuff--  Not as bad as I thought !  Wood ties from Kappler's will be added much later!

 

Note:  I am using large brown ties on the "Trolley Reverse Loop" which are pieces of Masonite to match the rail height between 027 and 031 ...

 

Cheers.

 

KRK