Just my opinions:

1) Definitely NOT a correct "hooter" whistle for a B&O EM-1!

2) The exhaust sounds do not appear to be correct for a simple articulated steam locomotive.

@Hot Water posted:

Just my opinions:

1) Definitely NOT a correct "hooter" whistle for a B&O EM-1!

2) The exhaust sounds do not appear to be correct for a simple articulated steam locomotive.

That's what I thought. I always thought it should be a more raspy sounding whistle, something more similar to the old 2000s EM1

@Sid's Trains posted:

That's what I thought. I always thought it should be a more raspy sounding whistle, something more similar to the old 2000s EM1

From memory, those early B&O EM-1s had a pretty deep sounding whistle, which was/is NOT correct for B&O. Pretty sure the B&O EM-1s had a "hooter" whistle very similar to N&W and C&O, i.e. sort of higher single tone "factory whistle" sounding. Best this for Lionel to do would be to put the N&W "hooter" whistle sound in that model, in my opinion.

@Hot Water posted:

From memory, those early B&O EM-1s had a pretty deep sounding whistle, which was/is NOT correct for B&O. Pretty sure the B&O EM-1s had a "hooter" whistle very similar to N&W and C&O, i.e. sort of higher single tone "factory whistle" sounding. Best this for Lionel to do would be to put the N&W "hooter" whistle sound in that model, in my opinion.

I am no expert as you can see. I just always loved the old 2000s sounds from Lionel, even when they were wrong. An N&W style whistle would sound really good.

totally wrong for an em1. I sent Lionel a video with live em1 sounds during the pre-order period and they responded very positively, so I pre-ordered this engine. This is not cool!

@Sid's Trains posted:

I am no expert as you can see. I just always loved the old 2000s sounds from Lionel, even when they were wrong. An N&W style whistle would sound really good.

If they use their N&W hooter whistle and drop the pitch a little bit they would be spot on for a b&o EM1. 

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

If they use their N&W hooter whistle and drop the pitch a little bit they would be spot on for a b&o EM1. 

I understand your frustration. I am almost certain this is the new ones because the gentleman running the train is using Bluetooth, the are other samples in the background, and the locomotive running also looks like a prototype. Definitely the factory production line. Sad to see Lionel not listening to customers.

@Sid's Trains posted:

I understand your frustration. I am almost certain this is the new ones because the gentleman running the train is using Bluetooth, the are other samples in the background, and the locomotive running also looks like a prototype. Definitely the factory production line. Sad to see Lionel not listening to customers.

I emailed Dave Olson directly. Hoping he can come through and fix this. The EM1’s are still overseas so hopefully there is time. I’m happy to know now. If I got it home, unboxed it and heard that whistle on my track.... that would be worse. 

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

I emailed Dave Olson directly. Hoping he can come through and fix this. The EM1’s are still overseas so hopefully there is time. I’m happy to know now. If I got it home, unboxed it and heard that whistle on my track.... that would be worse. 

Something to note, this is only the B&O model. The other versions could have a different whistle. It is still wrong, just something to keep in mind.

I was looking forward to this engine, but won't be buying if the whistle is this wrong.

@Sid's Trains posted:

Something to note, this is only the B&O model. The other versions could have a different whistle. It is still wrong, just something to keep in mind.

From what I understand the other models will have different whistles. And they are all fantasy anyway. The B&O model is not a fantasy & should have the correct sounds. 

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

From what I understand the other models will have different whistles. And they are all fantasy anyway. The B&O model is not a fantasy & should have the correct sounds. 

Well I hope they can fix it

I once had the early Lionel TMCC EM-1 and it had a nice sounding, though apparently incorrect, whistle. My only complaint was a poor smoke unit and the drive train shaft needed some servicing which I did myself.

https://youtu.be/rI99Dvpxo2w

first 35 seconds of this clip is a live em1 

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

https://youtu.be/rI99Dvpxo2w

first 35 seconds of this clip is a live em1 

Well,,,,,,,,there you have it folks!  Sounds just like a typical N&W "hooter" on a Y Class or an A Class articulated freight locomotive.

Well, let's hope that isn't going to be what comes out. I believe either Ryan or Dave has said(forget where) that they have some sort of base sounds that they have tested before loading up what would be the real ones, but I think that is when the engine is still in the works without any shells on. This was a couple of years ago maybe a TW video I watched, thinking 2016. I'm sure things probably have changed quite a bit since then. Regardless, these EM1's better have the right whistle otherwise it is the Pennsylvania J1's all over again 

That's an awful sounding whistle, since they have the Vision Line Big Boy sounds, why not use those?  They sound WAY better than that awful sound!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's an awful sounding whistle, since they have the Vision Line Big Boy sounds, why not use those?  They sound WAY better than that awful sound!

Put  "Vision Line Big Boy sounds" in a B&O EM-1??????

@Hot Water posted:

Put  "Vision Line Big Boy sounds" in a B&O EM-1??????

How about just the correct whistle. If they got the Y6b right and the Allegheny right. They can get the em1 right

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

How about just the correct whistle. If they got the Y6b right and the Allegheny right. They can get the em1 right

But then what about the articulated exhaust sounds? Remember that the N&W &6b is a compound articulated.

@Hot Water posted:

But then what about the articulated exhaust sounds? Remember that the N&W &6b is a compound articulated.

Very true,  And Lionel replicated that very well in their legacy Y6b. This em1 sounds like it only has 4 chuffs, rather then the drift chuff a simple articulated should have. 

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

Very true,  And Lionel replicated that very well in their legacy Y6b. This em1 sounds like it only has 4 chuffs,

I agree.

rather then the drift chuff a simple articulated should have. 

What is a "drift chuff"? A simple articulated should have 8 chuffs per revolution, since there are two engines, with 4 chuffs each. However, in many instances after starting out, the 8 chuffs tend to partially synchronize and sound sort of like 6 chuffs, then 4 chuffs, then 6 chuffs, then 8 chuffs, etc., etc., etc. MTH seems to have mastered that "simple articulated chuff" effect quite well.

@Hot Water posted:

 

When I say drift chuff I’m just using a phrase I’ve heard some ppl use to describe that 8 chuffs per rev... Mth does replicate it very well. 

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

When I say drift chuff I’m just using a phrase I’ve heard some ppl use to describe that 8 chuffs per rev... Mth does replicate it very well. 

Well, having spent about 17 years as a contract Fireman for the UP Steam team, prior to December 2010, on UP 844 and 3985, I must admit that I've never heard of that term. The staccato exhaust of a simple articulated, like UP 3985 and N&W 1218, is really fascinating as it changes during acceleration. Lionel has yet to get that sound right.  

@Sid's Trains posted:

• By chance I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure this channel I watch on YouTube is a channel which is in the Lionel factories in China. Based on the background in the video I am pretty certain this is the Lionel Factory, but i am not totally sure. After watching the latest video of them testing the new B&O em1, I believe the whistle they have installed is not the one me personally and some others were hoping for. It is just the normal hooter style whistle. Hopefully the other em1 style engines don't have this whistle. You can also see some other of fantasy style em1's in the back.

Here is the video:

 

I don’t know Korean or Chinese, but based on the letter forms, the writing at the top of the screen at the beginning of the video appears to be Korean, not Chinese—so this factory would be in Korea, not China.

@Keith L posted:

I don’t know Korean or Chinese, but based on the letter forms, the writing at the top of the screen at the beginning of the video appears to be Korean, not Chinese—so this factory would be in Korea, not China.

I don't know Chinese either. I am just assuming based on where I thought the factories were.

First Clip in this video is an EM-1 and again at 2:01 on the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI99Dvpxo2w

 To me based off these clips the the Whistle is close and the Language is Korean. (Google Translator)

Also why does articulated chuff/drift chuff matter when both sets of drivers never miss match on the count of being driven together on the same drive line on the model.

@Bruk posted:

First Clip in this video is an EM-1 and again at 2:01 on the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI99Dvpxo2w

 To me based off these clips the the Whistle is close and the Language is Korean. (Google Translator)

Sorry but in my opinion the whistle in that Lionel video is nowhere near "close" to a B&O/N&W/C&O "hooter" whistle.

Also why does articulated chuff/drift chuff matter when both sets of drivers never miss match on the count of being driven together on the same drive line on the model.

First, these high-end/high-priced steam models are supposed to represent the "real thing", thus there should be reasonably correct articulated chuff sounds. Second, many modelers loosen the mounting screws and stagger the front engine drivers from the rear engine drives, in order to try and duplicate common prototypical action. Yes, it did occur with the front engine rods aligned with the rear engine rods, but such was not the norm.

Thats Lionels crappy, raspy, poorly done , Casio keyboard sounding,  effort at a N&W Hooter.

IMO its one of Lionels worst sounding whistles in history, next to those pacifics that got diesel horns several years ago.

( why they haven't thrown that sound chip in the trash is beyond me)

They redid it for the Legacy y6b. This whistle sounds MUCH closer to the B&O in the video and is an excellent sounding hooter.

Go to 15:30 on Erics Trains video:

Having said that. Refraining from preordering saves alot of greif.  Dealers ALWAYS have extras, if its turns out Lionel did something correct.

@Hot Water posted:

 

Everything you say I agree on. This is why I strictly buy BRASS now. I do not want to waste my money items that are re-tooled again and again. If I had my way Lionel would be like TCS's WowSounds and ESU's LokSounds DCC and I we could program everything down to the the sound of the bower on the loco. But the O gauge world is behind the times in that. The only thing Lionel has going for them in my opinion is the user quill-able whistle/Horn. IF and when the DCC world introduces this in the future. All that Lionel items with their electronics I own....GONE.

@RickO posted:

Thats Lionels crappy, raspy, poorly done , Casio keyboard sounding,  effort at a N&W Hooter.

IMO its one of Lionels worst sounding whistles in history, next to those pacifics that got diesel horns several years ago.

( why they haven't thrown that sound chip in the trash is beyond me)

They redid it for the Legacy y6b. This whistle sounds MUCH closer to the B&O in the video and is an excellent sounding hooter.

Go to 15:30 on Erics Trains video:

Having said that. Refraining from preordering saves alot of greif.  Dealers ALWAYS have extras, if its turns out Lionel did something correct.

If they dropped the pitch on this Y6b whistle a little bit, They would be 95 to 98% accurate. I agree that the steamboat whistle sound chip should be trashed, or saved for some turn of the century mallets that we just don’t know what the whistle sounded like. (My Buffalo Rochester & Pittsburgh mallet has this whistle and I kind of like it for that model) But not for this EM1..... especially when we have actual live recorded sound. 

DJ'sOgaugetrains - Aside from the whistle sound issue, I watched all of the video link you attached and WOW I gotta say I was amazed at the rail fanning opportunities that the B&O offered back in the day! (lol)

Beginning at the 2:05 mark of your video there's a train that includes two (2) gondolas full of people - one right behind the tender and the other at the very end of the train - which is travelling at a very fast clip. Holy Mackerel!

All I can say is I guess the safety standards back in those days were not nearly as stringent as they are today! (lol)  Nonetheless - watching that made my day.

Happy Railroading everybody!     

@PH1975 posted:

DJ'sOgaugetrains - Aside from the whistle sound issue, I watched all of the video link you attached and WOW I gotta say I was amazed at the rail fanning opportunities that the B&O offered back in the day! (lol)

Beginning at the 2:05 mark of your video there's a train that includes two (2) gondolas full of people - one right behind the tender and the other at the very end of the train - which is travelling at a very fast clip. Holy Mackerel!

Back in the early 1960s, the CB&Q operated many steam excursions behind 2-8-2 #4960 and 4-8-4 #5632, with an open gondola, generally right behind the locomotive. The stories are legendary from guys riding in that gondola behind O5b #5632 at speeds to 90 MPH, along the Mississippi River (at least one time that gondola was even on the rear of the passenger train returning to Chicago, at 90 MPH).

All I can say is I guess the safety standards back in those days were not nearly as stringent as they are today! (lol)  Nonetheless - watching that made my day.

You are absolutely correct. I remember riding steam excursions on the PRR New York & Long Branch behind K4sa #612, in 1957, and people were even allowed to climb on top of boxcars and signal masts for the photo run-by. The same thing was true in 1959 on the first few Reading Iron Horse Rambles, behind T-1 #2124. 

Happy Railroading everybody!     

Hot Water - Yep, things were quite different back in those days.  As for your 90 mph comments, I'd certainly want to be wearing some 'goggles'; otherwise you might be either blinded or poisoned  from swallowing insects by the time you reach your destination. (lol)

Unfortunately nowadays a traveler can't even stand on a vestibule for a couple of minutes on a 'government-subsidized' Amtrak or VIA passenger car; although one exception to this (which I've personally experienced) is Canada's 'privately-owned' Rocky Mountaineer.  Kudos to the RM management who realize that this is one of the most enjoyable aspects of travelling by rail (and you don't need goggles on a vestibule at the back of the train either).

Well, I looked a bit more into this video and I believe this is Korea not China. The channel is from Korea, and I know that two locomotives I recently picked up were made in Korea.

I am confused looking at the video as to why they have tape on the pistons(at first I thought they were painted gold for some reason), maybe if they lay them down I guess?

The whistle hopefully will get fixed, there's a big difference between what they have and the video of the real deal.

Did they get the right chuffs per rev?

Overall it looks(the engine in general) looks nice.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Well, I looked a bit more into this video and I believe this is Korea not China. The channel is from Korea, and I know that two locomotives I recently picked up were made in Korea.

I am confused looking at the video as to why they have tape on the pistons(at first I thought they were painted gold for some reason), maybe if they lay them down I guess?

The whistle hopefully will get fixed, there's a big difference between what they have and the video of the real deal.

Only if many folks begin eMailing the folks at Lionel, i.e. Dave Olsen.

Did they get the right chuffs per rev?

Not in my opinion.

Overall it looks(the engine in general) looks nice.

Lionel would be foolish not addressing this issue before they are on the boat. If it is what it is then tell us now so buyers and dealers can make decisions as to accept or cancel. 

@romiller49 posted:

Lionel would be foolish not addressing this issue before they are on the boat. If it is what it is then tell us now so buyers and dealers can make decisions as to accept or cancel. 

Interesting suggestion, then again didn't the folks at Lionel maintain that the whistle on the PRR J-1 2-10-4 model was "correct"?  So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what if they "think" the whistle in that video is also "correct"?

Well, if they think the whistle is correct they must have Grumpy at the pipe organ from Snow White & those other folks. Hearing the whistle on the J-1 was really disappointing. One of the reasons I wanted one(since missing out on the prior one) was mainly for the whistle. There is nothing like a big steam engine blowing it's whistle. Maybe the 49er Challenger has clown sounds and clown horns instead of a whistle, but that is not based on a real deal. Keep the fantasy stuff fantasy and have the real be real. Whistles might as well be the iconic Road Runner "Meep! Meep!"