Opinions on Sunset 3rd Rail Locomotive

I don't have that one....but have 3-4 3Rd Rail locos.

This one is great looking.

All mine are conventional so I can't speak to TMMC.....but I like mine!

Heres ( what appears to be) some "crummy" video( not mine) of this ( weathered) loco, to give you an idea.

 

Thanks guys. Rick - thanks for the video. Seems like a great running engine. Might be a nice addition to the layout. 

I have two 3rd rail locos, an ATSF 2900 Northern and the Train of Tomorrow. Both have TMCC and railsounds, good horn and whistle sounds, nice operating lights, and are beautiful models.  I run only conventionally, and the steamer, like many other TMCC steamers I have, jackrabbits a bit on starting and is difficult to control well at very low speeds - much less fun to run in conventional that Legacy locos, which behave better at low speeds in conventional.  I never run it - it is in a display case in my office at work, and maybe the most beautiful model I have.  I get tons of comments about it.  

 

The Train of Tomorrow diesel is a jewel to run in conventional though - very smooth and quiet (motor) with good power and sounds.  I like it so much I ordered the 3rd Rail SD7.

Hello! Yes it looks like this locomotive has TMCC, lionel railsounds. And it probably has the EOB Cruise Control as well. I have some 3rd rail locomotives, and they are great- just more fragile than MTH or Lionel that's for sure! You will want to run it to make sure it runs good, than I would oil it up too. Just don't over oil it. When you unpack it out of the box, you may have to straighten out some small parts that are bent- this happens during shipping. I think 3rd rail locomotives have much more detail than Lionel and MTH.

I've chimed in on 3rd Rail before, and I do own several of their locos (a few steam; one brass Dash-9 (broken) and a NYC T-3 electric - with an R-2 electric on order). My view - based on actual experience - is different from most of the opinions I see expressed here.

But I'm not making this up. Why would I?

 

A fair number of their locos tend to be problematic. Not all, but most of them have come out of the box...with issues. My 2-10-4's pilot fell off, and the side rod separated, for example. (I fixed it.)I won't repeat the list. Delicacy is an issue, but also as machines, mine (I said "mine") have been off the Lionel, K-line and MTH standards. A friend's Cab-forward was and is mechanically non-functional right out of the box.

 

Not all of them.

 

Some have been fine. But I typically only buy them if no one else makes what I seek. Which explains the T-3 electric, and the R-2 on order. Always a "white-knuckle flight" when opening the package.

 

And the packaging! There have been 2 or 3 items actually damaged by the much-touted

packaging, rather than protected by it.

 

Forewarned is forearmed - but having said that, get what you like, and it may be just

fine in every detail. Most probably are, but many aren't. 

Here is a video of a T-3 shot on the IHMD layout.  This one doesn't have the square tender you are looking at, it has the vanderbuilt.  Same basic loco, and they were built at the same time.

 

Locomotive and B&O 3rd Rail passenger train owned by the Sasquatch.

 

 

I've had the odd issue with 3rd Rail product over the years, no more so than any other manufacturer, and Scott has always been great to work with to straighten out problems.  Since you are buying off e-Bay, it is buyer beware, as it is with ANY product purchased second hand.  

 

If it was not for the 3rd Rail steam that Scott started to do about 12 years ago (Northern Pacific), I would not have even given 3 rail the slightest thought.

 

Couldn't care less about Legacy and PS2.    I model specific railroads in a specific time period, not collect examples of control systems.  I only buy what fits that time period, and 3rd Rail quite nicely fits that niche. 

 

Best value for the money in my opinion. 

 

Regards,

Jerry Zeman

Just my opinion but, I prefer Sunset/3rd Rail steam locomotive models over every other manufacturer in 3-Rail O-Scale. The produce the correct models of locomotives that I desire for railroads that I tend to model. I have some 17 or 18 Sunset/3rd Rail steam locomotive models now, and love each and every one, and they all operate great too.

I own 3 steam engines and the GM ToT, all made by 3rd Rail.  They're fantastic locomotives in my opinion and excellent 'runners'.

 

As mentioned, the details are somewhat delicate and easily damaged if you aren't careful. I've been fortunate to source or make parts for my stuff.  These are fine brass models, just keep that in mind.

 

All of my 3rd Rail stuff is TMCC, though the older locomotives don't have TMCC.  Never had an issue and reliable.

 

The older steam engines aren't 'smokers' like, say, a Legacy or MTH locomotive.  The videos on youtube of the new stuff looks like they're great smokers.

 

Not to open a can of worms here, but they can be found on the secondary market often at 1/2 to a 1/3 of the original costs.

 

Beautiful products and often the only way to find a 'rare' locomotive not produced by Lionel or MTH. I've been really happy with the 3rd Rail stuff I've bought.

 

The only problem with 3rd Rail-once you buy something, you'll want more!

 

I think someone had the locomotive you are looking for on the for sale forum a while back.  It was listed with a bunch of other items in a thread.  May be worth a look.

 

 

 

 

I have 4 3rd Rail steam locomotives, 4 diesels and 1 RDC.  They all run fine out of the box.  The detail is better than Lionel.

 

All of my locomotives are TMCC.  Lionel won't license Legacy to 3rd Rail or anyone else so the locomotives do not have the "Legacy" bells and whistles.  

 

I think you will be pleased with your 3rd Rail purchase.   Joe

I found it, it's 5652.  Here's the link

Thank you everyone for the input. I too, model a specific-period - 1940's on the Western Maryland. Since the B&O was a neighboring railway, I thought this particular engine would be right at home on my layout. It sounds like I would be very happy with 3rd Rail. All my current locomotives are MTH Premier. Thanks again. 

86TA355SR- I found it too. Contacted the forum member. Thanks for the heads up!

You're welcome, hope it works out!

I have three now, the only reason I don't own more is I'm waiting for Scott to make engines in the railroads I model

 

The only negative I can see is that vintage is likely to have the TAS EOB system, I'm not really a fan of that TMCC package.

Gunrunnerjohn - not to sound stupid, but what exactly is that? I'm not familiar with that system. 

TMCC packages were provided from several sources until a few years back, Train America Studios and Digital Dynamics were two makers of Lionel licensed TMCC packages for upgrades and non-Lionel manufacturers.  TAS EOB is one such system.  I much prefer the Electric RailRoad Cruise Commander over the TAS EOB boards.  I've worked on a few 3rd Rail and other maker's engines with the TAS systems, and I've come to dislike them when compared to ERR.

 

 

Thanks for the explanation! What tends to be problematic with those systems? 

I've had far more repairs on them than with any other system, there's several ongoing threads here at OGR about issues with EOB equipped locomotives right now.

 

Ryan, ERR is obviously the more modern version over EOB and surely is more reliable, but I personally have over a dozen 3rd Rail engines with the EOB system and luckily haven't seen these issues.  All of them do get ran on occasion.  It just comes down to whether you want a particular model and can accept the system it currently has.   Just know that they are all upgradeable if something does happen and if so hopefully gunrunnerjohn can help.

 

I also have a lot more with the newer ERR system as well as several earlier 3rd Rail models with conventional so I don't think I need to say where I stand on 3rd Rail engines.  I will also agree with others about Scott Mann and how he stands behind his product.  I love the detail with brass and prototypical accuracy.  I fail to understand why people want to make a comparison of these hand made models to the mass produced diecast, but that's what we keep hearing.  To be fair to 3rd Rail you want to make a determination based on a new model versus used ones when you are really looking to judge them.

 

Here's something to think about with these models and what I have seen.  Now this isn't everyone, but several people buy them on the secondary market, often from someone that bought an estate collection.   They are handled by some "ham hands" clown that is just flipping trains for a buck and does not give them the love they need.  They are mishandled, incorrectly packaged and end up damaged by the time they are received.  This is a reflection of them and NOT a standard 3rd Rail product.  I have fallen victim to that as well, but these days I'm much more selective of who I buy from and study photos closely and ask questions about how they pack them.

 

That leads me to the model in question on eBay.  Look at the photos closely and you'll see it has a bit of damage.  A friend of mine pointed that out as he can spot anything in photos.  Hopefully the one here on the forum will work out for you.  I have the T-4a and it's awesome!!!

 

Let us know how everything works out.  Good luck!

 

Nick

Nick - you are exactly right. Thanks for pointing that out. I took a closer look and see what you saw. I'm hoping I can work out a deal with our fellow forum member (haven't heard back via e-mail yet). If not, would you consider selling yours? 

I wouldn't be afraid of it either.  All of my 3rd Rail steamers are from 2001 and they operate fine, both in command and in conv.  I fully understand what GRJ is saying and not trying to disagree, some of the TAS stuff has issues as he stated.  He's like a big brother-watching out for you!  And, if something ever does go wrong, he'll be the one to fix it correctly for you.

 

Remember also these are low production volume models.  If you pass on one, it may be a while before another comes along.  Not saying they are impossible to locate but think you should know that.  Some production volumes are extremely limited based on the model.

 

   

Like I said before, I absolutely love my 3rd Rail products.  You won't be disappointed.  

 

 

Sorry pal, I can't part with mine.  I got lucky when it appeared on 3rd Rail's boneyard a few years back so I jumped on it quickly.  

 

Someone talked me out of another 3rd Rail model of mine recently and I'm still regretting it.  I just don't have the funds I once had so replacing it could be very tough.

 

Nick

 

Nick- no worries. I don't blame you at all. I would have a hard time parting with any of my locomotives. 

Ryan, just ask for several photos before you jump on one so you won't have any surprises.   Also, validate that they will put foam between the trucks and frames of both the engine and tender, which isn't any different then you should expect from any other manufacturer's models.  it should then be wrapped and secured to the board in areas that do no have fragile detail parts, such as bells and whistles. 

 

i know I may be stating the obvious, but it's in your best interest to confirm.  I learned that the hard way.  Someone actually shipped me a NP Z-5 Yellowstone by just tossing it in the box and sending it on its way.  A big articulated like that didn't stand a chance.  It took me a week to put Humpty back together again.  The sad this is that the board and truck foam pieces were actually in the bottom of the box.  Oh, and then there was the one wrapped in newspaper in a big copier paper box.  Magical!  You just can't assume these days.  I hope everything works out for you and you find yourself appreciating the detail of these models like so many others do.  

 

Nick

You probably already have enough info to make your decision so forgive me for chiming in.

 

All the 3rd Rail steamers I have are great looking engines. As someone else has said above, if you have any issues out of the box you can expect 3rd Rail to stand behind their product although for older models parts availability might be an issue. I've never has a serious problem with any of my 3rd Rail engines and any problem I did have Scott Mann and his team dealt with quickly - as fast or even faster than Lionel. This is remarkable for a relatively small import operation and if you read around this forum you will see that it's part of what keeps their customer base happy. I say nothing about MTH service.

 

You are looking at an older 3rd Rail model. I have not got that one myself but a couple of the same vintage. The steam engine sounds from that era of production are a little generic. They don't compare favorably with modern Legacy sound and control systems but the detail of the engines is frankly still streets ahead of what you will see from the major manufacturers. Later model 3rd Rail engines benefit from improvements in ERR sound sets and control systems.

 

A lot depends on what you count as play value with your model trains and indeed whether it's very important to have sound and operating features that give you some variety in operation. If you value scale detail more I consider 3rd Rail products a real bargain at their price point.

 

P.S. I should have added that the belt drive on Sunset engines has never given me any problem, its smooth running at all speeds including a slow crawl is a real operating advantage - still better than slow speed control on either Legacy or DCS.

More than likely the floating ground issue with the tac reader.  or where power leads into the EOB motherboard the traces are not large enough to handle the the current draw at slow speeds and they burn up.  You just have to wire the power coming from the track directly to the bridge rectifier.  Anyway easy enough to convert to Cruise Commander and new RS if the EOB fails.  As mechanically they in my opinion are perfect, the belt drive is the cats meow in smoothness.

 

John I would suspect you would be also seeing issues with Weaver engines with EOB?

I have a number of 3rd Rail items. If you buy new Scott or his dealers will stand by the product and should have parts in stock. If you buy anything more than 2-3 years old that has been previusly owned then its buyer beware. I am zero for four in trying to get replacement parts from 3 Rail on used stuff I have acquired. If you are comfortable repairing brass engines there are usually other sources for these parts. If not you might want to reconsider. 

For some reason 3rd Rail seems to attract buyers that like to tinker but have close to zero skills. I have gotten a few engines that looked like someone threw them in a clothes dryer with a bunch of rocks and let them spin for an hour. Then took them out and tried to make repairs with super glue or flour paste. More money than brains I guess. 

 

Pete

You're exactly right Pete.  If you buy new 3rd Rail stuff, no doubt you'll get excellent customer service and a great product.  Since we're talking about one that's older and on eBay, it's not the same as buying the new product.

I have a few 3rd Rail engines, but I bought them all new, direct from Scott. I would be skeptical about buying an older engine from EBAY. Shipping would be my 1st concern, and then the person you're buying it from.

All my 3rd Rail locos are second hand either off ebay or the OGR Forum.

All in perfect condition and and fantastic deals for locos in the $500 range. I have no issue buying direct from Scott.....but most of my locos were produced BEFORE I got into the O3r hobby.....so 2nd hand only option.

Well I would definitely rather buy from a well known OGR member than an unknown Ebayer. Many times brass engines on EBay are an "estate sale" or they don't know anything about the engine. I would ask a lot of questions before buying used on Ebay.

I couldn't agree more, which is why I pointed him in the direction of the forum member who has one for sale.  I've had a few of the Bay deals on 3rd Rail stuff and it didn't go well. Hopefully, I can prevent someone else the frustration I had.  Some idiots have no clue how to pack and like the articulated described above, mine arrived in about the same shape. I could've returned it, but I'd already looked a year for it.  So, I fixed it and dealt with the situation.

 

Like someone else said, I'd buy more new 3rd Rail stuff but locomotives I want were made before I was back in trains or when I couldn't afford it.  

Sunset Engines:

I have a N&W 4-8-2 Mountain type["The Water Buffalo"]which is a conventional hoss.

 

Also the Early Clinchfield Challenger with TMCC/RS.

 

And, a Southern E7 A unit with TMCC/RS.

Thank you everyone for your input and feedback. It has been most helpful. I've contacted the forum member who has one for sale. I prefer to buy from fellow forum members than from eBay. 

I have the same engine. Jeff @ JDS Ltd did a wonderful job with a PS2 conversion on it. It is one of my favorite locomotives.

 

 

I also have the N&W K2a and TE-1. Three examples of N&W locomotives that none of the other companies have modeled. Thank you Scott!

 

Gilly

Byan: If you feel comfortable with this purchase, then go for it. It will look great on your layout. These locomotives are very reliable, with a lot of details.

I have three steam engines -- one with TMCC/EOB and two with TMCC/ERR.  They are hand made in small numbers and I have had to tweak a few simple things after unpacking them.  I just had a failure on the 4-8-4 in that the bolt/crankpin on the left rear driver has fallen out.  I'm searching for it on the layout and will check all my other ones on the Sunset/3rd Rail steamers.  Freak thing.  Not normal.  I hope I find it, but will have to pay them to search for another part if it can't be found.  This is just part of the brass locomotive segment of our hobby.

 

The detail is excellent.  They really look good and run very smoothly and slowly.

 

And the really good part is that Scott Mann keeps improving the products and listens to his customers.