positive comments on gargraves switches?

Well, i haven't been dumped on yet today, so here goes:

i have over 30 turnouts (switches) on my railroad and most of them are very early Gargraves that i bought used in the late 1980's. i also have 3 or 4 newer production Gargraves, and a few Ross and 2 Curtis. Also 2 KLine or Lionel (i forget) in a hidden location.

The Curtis (no longer in production) and Ross are unquestionably the best with respect to smoothness, dependability, etc.

However, when i built my RR money was very tight so i used what i could afford. The Gargraves have given me very good service, but required replacing most of the frogs, filing and bending some rails, and general maintenance/fiddling. For the most part they are powered with twin coil switch machines of various manufacture mounted under the benchwork. Over the years i've found the NJI machines to be the least reliable and the Tenshodo ones the best. Two or three of the switch machines are mounted above the table but hidden. Also about 6 are operated by ground throws.

In conclusion if i had the funds, i would have used Ross, but at the same time with some initial work the used Gargraves have functioned admirably for over 20+ years. The newer production ones seem to be without any issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJmTzIFKvys

jackson

If you elongate, and tighten up the clearance on the guard rails, it will save wear & tear on the frogs.

This switch business is a cottage industry; at one time, Ross and Curtis were separate enterprises and competitors;  and, later became a joint enterprise.

My recollection, could be wrong, is that it was the other way around... Ross and Curtis were a joint enterprise and later became separate enterprises and (cordial)competitors.

Frank Curtis eventually bowed out after many production delays / unable to keep up with orders.

GarGraves has been a manufacturing concern since the 1940's.

Rob, you have it right. Carl has it backwards. Ross and Curtis started together, then parted ways around 1990. I have a few of the Curtis switches leftover from the mall layout. They were very nice. Unfortunately, I bought a lot of Right of Way switches, because they were cheap and he could deliver them in a timely fashion, which was what the task required.

As for Gargraves switches... I'll just say, I love their track.

My last layout was a small switching one, around 11 x 4 feet that I had from 2001 to 2010 or so. The layout had Gargraves track and 6 Gargraves switches. The switches worked well and I used the NJ International switch machines that Jackson mentioned. The switch machines also worked well for me (good luck finding them nowadays) and they were mounted under the layout. I think in the 9 or 10 years I only needed to replace 1 switch machine. The switches only needed some slight fiddling maybe once or twice a month. For me it was only the switch points which needed some slight bending with needle nose plyers. I thought I remember Gargraves re-engineering the switch points sometime around 2005-ish, you might want to ask them, they have very good customer support. I ran postwar and prewar steam switchers on the layout without trouble. I would recommend both Gargraves track and their switches.

  Tom

there are a bunch of switches on ebay now wothout motors. however, many of them dont have that little "outcropping" where one would mount the dz1000 machine. is there something that can be done to mount those machines? or do you need a "tortoise" type under table switch machine?

You can build up a mounting pad alongside the turnout out of balsa to mount the DZ. I had originally installed 20 Gargraves on my layout. I was happy with them, and Steve@ Ross actually walked me through a procedure for increasing the reliability of these. Next York I bought a pair of the Ross 100's (Gargraves replacements) and was hooked. After that initial pair it took me 10 Yorks to replace all the GG's. Been a huge fan ever since. Gargraves are ok, but there is no comparison for reliability.  

how do you tell the older gargraves switch against the new improved?

Try shooting them an email:  GarGraves@gargraves.com

Tom

That's a tough question as there have been probably 10-15 versions of GarGraves switches since the 1940's.

guess i am getting at the difference between the latest and the next previous

the forum is heavily weighed to Ross switches………………..well, there is a reason why.

Most problems with operating layouts are with electrical issues or switch issues, You can fiddle with others and get aggravated or you can just get Ross and "set it and forget it".

There is a reason why Ross is known as trouble free, because they are. Hand made in USA.

Great company, great owners, top notch all the way around.

If you ever do have the rare issue with Ross, they will make it right, no questions asked.

In time, I have replaced EVERY Gargraves switch on my two loops/main lines with Ross switches.  Every Ross switch has worked flawlessly.  Every Gargaves switch was a disappointment.

I used GG switches on my layout. I used new 72" and 100" GG switches on the mainline and used (purchased used in early 80's) 100" GG on the yard tracks. I updated the used switches by adding .080 by .188 strips to the guard rails on the older GG switches. The upgrade to the used switches stopped most of the derailing.  I have approx. 36 GG switches on the layout.  My biggest problem is with the Z2500's not working right.

Ok, positives comments only.

• The manual GarGraves switches come with Caboose Industries ground throws already installed.
• Delivery is fast.
• Their switches are inexpensive. 

I used them on my TimeSaver layout. For my home layout, I have 22 Ross switches.

Gilly

Gilly posted:

 

The manual GarGraves switches come with Caboose Industries ground throws already installed.

 

Delivery is fast.

 

Their switches are inexpensive.

• The owner is very helpful
• They mate easily with tubular track
• Inventory is readily available
• Smooth operation with no electrical shorting or derailing

My goal is to have all tracks interconnected with a smooth and continuous running operation without shorts and without derailing.  I have used them on my layout for the last 3 years, total 38, and I am very satisfied. 

You might note that nothing is without fault.  These older ross switches have throw bar issues.  The bar material wears with age and eventually breaks.  Ross will supply new throw bars and the bars can be replaced with the switch in place. 

Smooth operation with no electrical shorting or derailing

the switches that came in a white box with black diagonal stripe... are they the old style gargraves?

Sounds about right.

there are a bunch on ebay right now for cheap.. look new.  should i avoid the temptation at all costs? i wold have to buy machines for them.

You can always buy one or two and see how happy YOU are with them.

I, personally, wouldn't use them if I was paid to.....but that's just me....and I'm trying to keep things positive.

But, they MAY just work for your application or live up to your standards.  They may be cheap enough so that the juice is worth the squeeze, so to speak.

If you end up hating them, you'll only be out the price of one or two used switches.

I was debating Gargraves switches a few weeks back when I decided to change out all the track on my layout to Gargraves. However, after being convinced by many guys on here about Ross, I went completely with Ross for switches. I couldn't be happier. 

what about the "vintage " gargrave units?they look likethey have an integrated switch machine of sorts. was there a sweet spot for those in the production run?

Understand that what you are getting here in opinions is a very small sample of the 3 rail O gauge population, and Gargraves has been in business since the late 1940's. They can't be as all bad as some would have us believe, or they wouldn't have survived.

This is not to imply anything bad about Ross, as they make an outstanding product.

jackson

another question.. can gargraves switches that have the manual throws be converted easily to remote? is it a matter of just removing the lever assembly and installing the machine? 

They used that box well into the ninties. The current switches are packed in clear plastic and they have shiny swivel rails.  The previous generation had black swivel rails.  Earlier yet,  switches were in a green box with see through window.  Those had a "flying wing" design for the swivel rails, which had a closed rail frog.  Those actually work better than the white box switches, IMO.  No open frog for the wheels to bounce on or wander off.  I use older GG switches for the yard and Ross on the high speed lines.

I just looked at ebay and saw that there was an offering of 3 of the old style green box switches new in box, with switch machines.  Take a look.

Mike, you have hit on my one pet peeve with Ross switches. The problem is that the plastic they use melts when soldered. This elongates the holes and makes the points sloppy and also makes the bar prone to breakage.

When I need to replace one (and I've done quite a few) I don't bother Steve for more bars. I use phenolic plastic. That's what circuit boards are made out of. You can't melt that. Problem solved forever.

Since others have expressed faults with Gargraves switches, I guess I'll chime in now. I don't like the plastic base that they are built on. Also the selection of styles is very limited compared to Ross.

In fairness, I have never used or even seen in person the new design. I'm basing my opinion on past experience. I tried using some old ones from the 80's on my layout, and I ripped them out and put in new Ross'.

 Pictures on the Gargraves site show DZ 1000 switch motors to answer the question about  automation.

thanks. your comments helped me out greatly. exactly what i needed to know. yes i am currently bidding on those three green box units i plan on using in my yard.

cheers

im looking at a pair of o-100 turnouts, but they are currentyl set up with the maual switch throw. i cant for the life of me tell from the pictures if the screw holes for the switch machine are there. does that matter? can any of these units be adapted to the dz1000?

thanks for putting up with all these inquiries!

domer94

A quick call to Gargraves will probably get clear answers to your questions -          (315) 483-6577. They are really helpful. i don't mean to be flippant here, but just don't know the answers to your questions. My GG turnouts always came w/o switch machines or ground throws. i added both types as the situation dictated.

jackson

I have both gargraves and ross on my layout. I prefer the ross for operations and gargraves for the price. I think I turned some remote gargraves into manuals and used the same holes, so should work in reverse.

Okay, good, then I promise I won't bid against you!