Mike, that's an interesting choice of throw bar material. I had no idea what you were using until you said that. Isn't that awfully brittle? The stuff I use is fiber reinforced. It's also 1/4" thick. I think in the future, I'll get a single side clad PC board, and put the copper side down.
PCB material has not been Phenolic for a long time. PCB's now are mostly Fiberglass with smooth resin finish. Thickness can vary but the majority is 0.062" thick and is plenty sturdy for a throwbar.
Live and learn, thanks Russell. Either way, it's good stuff. I wish Ross would use this.
Originally Posted by John23:
Originally Posted by domer94:
Originally Posted by John23:
Originally Posted by domer94:
the switches that came in a white box with black diagonal stripe... are they the old style gargraves?
They used that box well into the ninties. The current switches are packed in clear plastic and they have shiny swivel rails. The previous generation had black swivel rails. Earlier yet, switches were in a green box with see through window. Those had a "flying wing" design for the swivel rails, which had a closed rail frog. Those actually work better than the white box switches, IMO. No open frog for the wheels to bounce on or wander off. I use older GG switches for the yard and Ross on the high speed lines.
I just looked at ebay and saw that there was an offering of 3 of the old style green box switches new in box, with switch machines. Take a look.
thanks. your comments helped me out greatly. exactly what i needed to know. yes i am currently bidding on those three green box units i plan on using in my yard.
cheers
Okay, good, then I promise I won't bid against you! 
a true gentleman!
I started out using Gargraves switches with acceptable results and then found Ross that was higher in price but of much better quality.
Both switches will work but Ross works perfect right out of the box. Gargraves makes some very good products in track, remote/uncoupling sections and crossovers but sometimes ( but not all the time) their switches require some filing, fitting, and fiddling to keep cars from derailing and to keep engines moving smoothly across them. I attribute this to the manufacturing tolerances being looser than those of Ross. If you don't mind tuning a few of them up when needed; Gargraves switches can save you a lot of money. To be honest from now on out, I will use Ross exclusively.
You can look at the two switches just from pictures and see what is a better made product. I believe quality is worth paying for. I never wanted to be the cheapest, I want to be the best. I would rather buy one switch that works perfectly from start to finish instead of three that I have to file and shim and jack around with just to function acceptably, and still be unhappy with. To each his own. Best of luck.
Check the pictures below.
The first 2 are the early frogless design. These are very similar in function to Gilbert's American Flyer Switches. They came in the green window box. They work well on conventionally powered layouts. The power for the moving rails comes from tabs underneath. I'm not so sure this type of connection works well in a command control environment.
The next shot is a GG switch from 1980 or so. If you look closely at the points, you will see they are a single piece of stamped sheet metal. They typically are black (anodized?).
The 4th shot is the current GG design. Note the points are 2 pieces of shiny stamped metal. The black rectangle on the frog is a piece of electrical tape that has gotten loose. I use it to insulate the sides of the frog from wheel sets that are gauged too narrow.
The next shot is the GG packaging I know about. Oldest at the bottom, newest at the top.
The last 2 shots are Ross switches. Note that the ties are separate wood pieces individually staked to the rails. AFAIK, all GG switches use a plastic base. If you have a HiRail switch with wood ties, its either Ross or Curtis. Ross also uses rail pieces for the center pickup on the frog. GG uses a piece of sheet steel.
The last shot shows why I buy Ross or the latest GG version for critical points: The running rails are aligned and straight! Beware of GG switches from the 80s. They are often not so nearly well constructed. The current version is FAR superior to the 80s version, so much so that I got rid of all of mine from that period. That said, I do have a friend that still uses them with no issues. Of course, he did take the time to tweak everyone into running shape.
Chris
LVHR
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thanks for your detailed response chris. all this feedback has helped my decision making and planning greatly.
chris, so i gather that you have no issue with the GG latest version? i see you refer to them in the same sentence as ross , witch is the first time i have noticed anybody do.
The latest GG version has given me no problems as far as the switch goes. Where I have had trouble is with the switch motors. Some work very well, and others are just plain problematic. Its definitely the motor and not the switch. Not sure what the issue is. And that applies to both GG and Ross.
BTW, I would also avoid used Curtis switches. While they look nice, the one I've found tend to have loose ties, which leads to poor alignment. Plus the switch points tend to be very long and thin. They look good, but are not all that strong. Just my 2 cents.
Chris
LVHR
I have used only GG switches. On current layout I only have small number. Money for me is a factor and for the money I've been happy with GG. Looked into using a Ross double crossover and when I considered the cost just didn't fit into my budget. I'm sure the quality is without question if money is no object though.
