Anyone know for certain if the PRR ever pulled PRR Heavyweights with their J1's?

@Post Office Pete posted:

Anyone know for certain if the PRR ever pulled PRR Heavyweights with their J1's?

Appreciate the help!

Probably not, as they had 69" diameter drivers, and no steam conduit on the rear of the tender (at least I don't ever remember seeing one on the rear of the tender).

Appreciate your reply.

I expected not but thought I'd ask for clarity.

Stay well!

What is the argument for the size of drivers? - Passenger trains vs. Freight?

@Larry Mullen posted:

What is the argument for the size of drivers?

Smaller driver diameters were primarily designed for freight service, i.e. 74" diameter or less. Most "modern" steam locomotives designed for freight service had 68/69" diameter drivers, which provided pretty high tractive effort, with speeds to about 60 or 70 MPH.

- Passenger trains vs. Freight?

Passenger steam locomotives generally had driver diameters of 72" or larger, i.e. up the the most common diameter of 79/80", allowing cruising speeds above 80/90 MPH, with some top speeds over 100 MPH. The one most notable exception was of course the N&W J Class, that was so well designed with 70" diameter drivers, they could easily operate at speeds to 100 MPH and higher.

A few of the C&O H8 Alleghenies were fitted with steam lines for passenger service, mostly for hauling troop trains during WW2.  Alleghenies had 67” drivers.  

To my knowledge the Pennsy did not likewise outfit their J1s for passenger service, but if that works for you and your railroad I say go for it.  A J1 hauling a troop train if heavyweights would look awesome!

Never say never, but highly unlikely as others have said.  PRR was busy working on trying to perfect the T1 which never happened for passenger steam, while the EMD E7 originally arriving as a single pair AB set in 1945 started being delivered in bulk in 1948 which was the beginning of the end of passenger steam pulled power, especially on the broad way which was the J1s main territory. 

Considering the lack of modern steam for freight operations, the J1s found themselves busy pulling long freights and the crews liked them over the overly complex Q2s.

Thanks to everyone for their input!

I agree, that they were never assigned as passenger locos.    As noted they did not have the steam or signal lines.    However, the regular power on a passenger train broke down, one can assume a J1 could be sent out to rescue the train.

The M1 and M1A were built as dual service.    I do believer some were equipped with passenger steam lines and communication lines.    There are photos of at least one that got the fancy passenger Paint job.    Mostly they spent their time on fast freights along the middle division.

An interesting note I read somewhere was that the M1s an M1a had the axle spacing spread out far enough that an 80 inch driver version could be built using the same frame.    The ones built all had 72 inch drivers.     There was never an 80 inch driver version built, but it was apparently considered a possibility for passenger service.

I agree with the others that it was highly unlikely that they ever were assigned to a passenger train or designed to pull any (no steam heat lines/ communication lines on tender).

Granted, the H10's weren't designed for passenger trains, but some (such as 7688) were equipped with steam heat lines and communication lines during WWII so that they could pull troop trains. By the time of the war, these consolidations would have been 25+ years old and it would make sense to use these smaller engines for troop trains compared to newer, more powerful engines such as the J1's.

It is interesting that the J1's got the keystone number plates which were typically reserved for passenger or dual-service engines.

I did see a recent edition of the Keystone in which there was mention of an N2 steamer pulling a passenger consist.  That seems pretty unusual.

George

A fellow modeler from Pittsburgh, whose dad worked for the PRR, told me that a J1 was always used on an employee special train that ran once each summer to the Kenneywood? amusement park.  He told me that the train consist was usually about 30 old coaches.  I cannot verify the authenticity of his comment.

Many of the N2s were assigned to the Grand Rapids & Indiana (GR&I).     Their axle loadings were a little light than the N1s, I1s or L1s and be used north of Grand Rapids where rail and especially Bridges could not handle the heavier loadings.    So they were principle drag engines on that line, probably all the way from Fort Wayne up to Mackinac City.    No K4s were allowed north of Grand Rapids either as I remember reading.    The Main passenger power up there was G5s.   

So it it would make sense that an N1 would protect or rescue a passenger train in that area.    Also, during holiday seasons and high tourist travel in Summer, the passenger trains would have gotten quite long and maybe too much for a G5.

The GR&I ran from Cincinnati I think North through Fort Wayne and up to Grand Rapids, MI, and than on north to Mackinac City at the north tip of the lower Mich Penisula.    From there, there was ferry service across the straits to the upper peninsula.    I don't think PRR had any track on the UP, so they probably interchanged at Mackinac.  

The PRR got control of the GR&I in the early 1900s, but ran it as a separate company for many years before absorbing it.    There is still a big yard in Grand Rapids that was Conrail and then NS and some years back was taken over by a shortline.