PS -1 Engine clicks on start up and at voltage changes

I have never seen that symptom.  The constant clicking sounds like powering up and down, but changing voltage after it started up shouldn't cause more clicking.

What type of engine?  The PS-1 bottom board has 3 relays.  2 control direction, but the 3rd is voltage sensitive and controls how the board functions at low versus high voltage.

I would make sure all the wiring is plugged in correctly.  After that it would be close inspection while powering up to determine which relay is clicking.  Could be a transistor, Voltage regulator, capacitor issue if it is not something simple like loose wire plugs.   G

G,

Thanks for the reply, It's an E-33. I wasn't aware of the relay setup. I'll have to pop the hood later on and take a look.

G,

I see two relays and neither one of them is chattering. I included a picture in case I missed the third one. All the connecters are locked.

Here is an interesting twist. My test bench is equipped with an old Lionel RW 100W.

The engine is flawless on the test track. I put it back on the layout powered by the Lionel brick, variable TIU and DCS handheld. The problem is still there.

FWIW, I've had PS/1 stuff that doesn't like the TIU variable channels.  They have the same issue as other electronic voltage controls, they all use the chopped waveform to control voltage.

I run the same basic setup as pennsyfan, 180 ph bricks into the variable channels on the TIU. I get that clicking noise through the speakers too, in neutral, but it stops when I cycle into forward, or reverse. I use an Energizer NiMh rechargeable battery in my PS1 loco.

On start-up, no clicking until I adjust the voltage, then *click, click, click*. But as I said before, once I cycle into forward, clicking stops.

The other relay is the small gray to the right of the large capacitor used for firing the couplers.  Based on the test and Penn Pacific input this sounds like a speaker clicking vice actual relay chatter.  Does yours stop the clicking once moving when using the TIU?

There might be a gold date code stamped on the top board....0598 as an example.  Is there one?  If so what date is stamped?  G

So they made a control system that has problems with their own product but greatly improves the running of another makers PW products? Go figure.

I don't see a date stamp on the Board; there is a 1996 on the E-33 chip label.

Yes, mine stops clicking 6 - 8 secs after a startup, a direction change, or voltage step.

The engine is very fast at low voltages so in the beginning I kept turning the thumbwheel to adjust the speed. Every 1/2 volt change on the wheel produces 6 - 8 secs of clicking. I just ran it on the lower level which is powered by an MTH-4000; everything was normal.

Thanks to everyone for their sharing and help.

I had the same issue gunrunnerjohn describes.  Could not run PS1 on my layout set up with TIU's for PS2.  FWIW, pennsyfan, PS1 was pre-DCS and outsourced to QSI, there was no attempt to make DCS backwards compatible with PS1.

I found trying to make PS1 work in my DCS environment unrewarding. Solved the issue by removing the PS1 board and substituting a Williams reversing board (about $35 and very easy plug-in). Now my previously-PS1 locos run dependably in conventional mode.  I know there are members here who love PS1, but it just was not working for me and I am very happy with the conversions.

Hojack, I appreciate your input and suggestion to replace PS-1.  As far as backwards compatible; that is obvious that no attempt was made. I guess growing up in the Bell System where every new switching system or component had to be backwards compatible with the oldest still deployed system set my expectations high. Sorry for digressing..

It's a lot more expensive to make a pure sine wave output from an electronic control than to just chop the waveform for voltage control.  That's why most electronic transformer outputs are chopped waveforms.  The Z4000 is somewhat of a unique case in that it's an electronic transformer, but actually has a close to pure sine wave output.  It cost them extra to generate that waveform, but I suspect at the time it was designed, they wanted the maximum compatibility.  It's also why the Z4000 has very few reported compatibility issues, even with old stuff.

I will also add, not all PS1 engines have this issue. I have 2 that run on DCS variable with no trouble.

It seems to be the earlier ones before QSI upgraded the power supplies in the boards. I suspect a bit of investigation and adding some capacitors could fix the problem, but I'd have to tear apart an engine that has the issue and I don't have one.

Correct Russell, it seems to be the early versions that have issues with many chopped wave transformers, not just the TIU variable outputs.

We don't want to mix terms either.  PS-1 is different than QSI boards even though they made them for MTH.  There is no power supply board in the PS-1 unit. It is integrated with the bottom board.

QSI used a Power Supply less DCRU as the bottom board and added a Power Supply board in the middle for their sound system. 

For MTH the changes on the bottom board seem to be subtle, and different versions of the top board handle chopped AC better.  G