Question about cruse commander "Lite" "Pics added"

You can use a CC Lite but you will have to fuse it. 3.5 fast blow or PTC. GRJ can recommend what PTC to use. If you use the full blown Cruise Commander you won't have to fuse it. I have a CC Lite in a two motor Williams NW2 (same motors as your engine) no problem. The CC Lite is rated for 4 amps. Your NW2 will only draw in excess of 4 amps if it stalls but in normal running rarely draws over 2 amps. YMMV.

 

Pete

My switcher only has one can motor and a smoke unit.  Can the smoke unit be controlled with the cc lite?

Sure, the CC-Lite has smoke, front and rear lights, and front and rear couplers.  It uses the standard R4LC that is used on the full cruise commander and has the same complement of outputs.

 

I have no idea if you'll be able to control the sounds in command mode without changing the sound board, you probably will have to change.

If the board will give me speed control and smoke the sound is not a problem. I like the sound it has now so I can manually set the volume at a reasonable rate and live with that.

When running in command you will likely get no sound or if you do it will be prime mover at a constant pitch. You won't be able to trigger bell or horn since track voltage will be constant. 

 

Pete

With a conventional board that isn't recognizing the serial data stream, the prime mover will be a max all the time as it'll be seeing the 18V track voltage and figure you're at full throttle.  You won't have any horn or bell.

 

The sound board "could" be command compatible, but there's no way of knowing without checking what's in it. 

I did order the board. I'll take some pictures of the innards of the engine tonight. Thanks guy's.

OK. Here is what I have to work with. 

 

 

 

 

Chris,

 

Better picture of this board with higher resolution so we can read the lettering on both sides would be useful.  It looks like the same PCB as the ERR RS Commander, but the firmware would be the question.  If you send pictures to Ken at ERR, he could maybe tell you if this one has command capability.  If you have an ERR equipped locomotive, you could pop this board in and see if it responds to commands as well.

 

 

I would be surprised if Lionel installed a Command Sound board in a conventional engine.  The hardware is the same, but I do think the Firmware is conventional only.  G

I would too George, but it's worth a shot to see.

 

 

It's possible--some products configured for conventional use will accept TMCC (although not legacy) serial commands. Depends on what firmware is present.

 

rudy

Thanks for the input guy's. I have no idea myself. I'm going to just follow the directions from ERR and go with that. I assume I will have to change out the existing board for the ERR command "Lite"?

I figure it's worth a shot to plug it in and see if it sees the serial data.  If you don't have a way to test it, you can send me the board and I'll plug it in and tell you if it sees the serial data.

 

I didn't think it had a chance of seeing the Legacy commands, no surprise there.

 

Chris, the CC-Lite is the motor control, for the sounds you'd need to have one of the RailSounds Commander boards.  I'd check this one out first, you might save $85 or so.

 

 

Hi John. I'm obviously new to ERR but can I add sound later to the Cruse command lite board down the road?  I figure I would start out with something simple and learn the components better as I do more installs.

You can certainly add the sound board later, that's not a problem at all.  The sound board it a trivial installation, you just plug in a couple connectors and mount a speaker, job done!

 

From the pictures, I suspect you may have to go with a lower profile speaker and put the CC-Lite on top of it, then the sound board can mount where the existing board is, it's the same hardware as you have now.  Again, your board "may" support command, that's yet to be determined.  The CC-Lite comes with the one cable for the sound board, and if you need the small one for the motor connection, I can send you one.

Other than the profile the speaker they put in it is a small Fat Boy which really has a nice sound.  Thanks John. I'll let you know how it goes once I dive in.  

Certainly is a tight fit in that engine,  what does the other side look like where the e-unit is.  G

I'm sure it sounds good, I just think you may have clearance issues since the CC-Lite appears it'll have to go on top where the speaker is.  That's the only place with enough space for the board.  You can pretty much figure that the tops of the flywheels is about it for the max height.

Right above the speaker is the funnal for the smoke unit which could present a problem.  Since there is only one motor I may be able to shoe horn the board in the cab area.  I'll have a better idea when I get the board in hand. I'm sure there is plenty of room in the calf unit but a tether is not what I'm looking to do.

Chris,  The large board with heat sink is the motor driver board and this gets replaced with Cruise Lite.  So that is where you would fit it.  What I am not sure of is the smaller square board.  That may be the electronic E-unit, and it would be removed too, but it could be the smoke control board.

 

Did you order a R2LC also, or does the cruise lite still come with it?  G

The CC-Lite comes standard with the R4LC, it's part of the package.

 

Hi G.  I thought the large board was what I was replacing with the cruse lite. Thanks for the clarification.  I'll take some better pics of the boards.

This board is the sound board. 

 

 

This appears to be the reverse board.

 

 

I took some more pics and moved some wires to see what's what. I believe this is where the CC Lite board will live and the sound board is on the opposite side of it. The next is I think the reverse board because this is where the direction lock out switch attaches to.   Am I correct? 

 

 

Chris, I went to Lionel Web site and looked at the parts, The first picture of the larger board with EU2 on it is the reverse unit/motor driver.  That is replaced.

 

The smaller board I believe is the smoke and or light control board.  Are you sure the lockout switch goes to it, or is that smoke on and off?  G

OK what am I doing wrong!  I have the engine going forward and back after setting the engine ID but I'm confused in what terminal to put the wire for the smoke unit to work off the board?   From the smoke on/off switch I took one wire and grounded it to the frame and put the other wire in terminal 7 and the smoke came out but I couldn't toggle it off with my remote. Not sure what I'm doing wrong? 

Chris, Normally for Lionel Smoke unit they get chassis ground from the smoke unit metal in contact with the chassis.  Normally you have AC Center rail coming out of the R2lC or in this case the Cruise light board going to the switch and from the switch to the smoke unit.  You should be toggling center rail not chassis ground.

 

That way the switch always over rides the power to the smoke unit.  So out of terminal 7 to the smoke switch, from the smoke switch to the smoke unit Red center rail input.  G

What I did is take one of the wires from the smoke unit switch and put that to ground on the frame and took the other wire and put it in terminal 7 as the way I understood the instructions.   

 

The smoke in this engine works a little different. The fan comes on when power is applied and you only get smoke when you toggle the switch. 

Chris,  Couple things here.  First for the Cruise lite the output if Pin 7 goes to a normal smoke unit as power in.  THe other wire of the smoke unit would go to ground.  So as I said earlier you should go from pin 7 of the Cruise light to one post of the switch and the other post goes to the smoke unit.  That way either turning off smoke via Command, or turning switch off kills power.

The problem is you have a smoke unit that requires a smoke regulator.  SO that smaller board actually controls the smoke.  I am not surew how that is wired and would need to see it to trace wires to figure out how to work it.  The problem is that your unit has 8 ohm resistor so driving from the R2LC will cook the resisitor.  You need to drive the regulator, or buy the ACREG to control smoke.  They acutally show that as a part for your engine too.

 

Here is the board that controls smoke. 

 

You really can't control smoke with this set up with out more info on the Reg board, or adding a relay and using pin 7 to turn the relay on and off which would turn the smoke board on and off effectively turning the smoke unit on and off.   G

Hi G.  I think at this point I'm going to live with what I initially wanted to do and and that is have speed control.  At some point I may gut the whole engine and make it all full command sound and all. That seems to me to be the right way to do it. This project was to kind of get my feet wet in installing an ERR board. Mission accomplished!  Thank you and John for all your input much appreciated.  

Your close no need to gut.  The other option is finding a smoke unit PCB that has the normal smoke fan power components and a 27 ohm resistor.  At  that point you can wire it directly to pin 7 and have your smoke.  Ultimately when you buy a Command RS Lite sound system you just replace the one you have.

 

Maybe one of the certified Lionel techs with a diagram of that smoke reg can help you finish it.

 

I imagine it is 2 ac inputs, 2 dc outputs to the fan motor and 2 outputs to the smoke element.  The 2 pin may be the switch or that is the fan output and 2 of the 6 pins are smoke switch.

 

If you found the center rail power wire going into that board, you could attach it to the 7 pin output of the Cruise Lite instead of the center rail pickup and that may work.  G