Question on running engines using alligator clips

I have used the alligator clip method to download files to a balky loco, but had no problems.  I can perceive no reason why a reset would be required after using clips.

I find, since upgrading to 4.3, that sometimes I ahave to toggle the smoke on/smoke off button on the remote a few times to get the smoke off.

I use alligator clips every year when cleaning the wheels and pickup rollers.  I have never experienced a problem afterwards.

Maybe in your case the fluid got on "something" and needed to dissipate first??????  I know that if I put too much fluid in, when on the track, not upside down, that no smoke will come out for a while.  sounds like the same concept to me.

- walt

Walt,

That maybe what is going on. I know that in both cases, I added more spoke and do blow a little air into the stack. I may have added to much or something.

Anyway thanks everyone for your input.

I was thinking more on the line that when you turn it over you have too much in the reservoir and it drips on "something" when upside down.  Not so much thinking that you overload it when upright.

You'll figure it out!

- walt

Just a note to add to guys who do maintenance (I do it also) with the engine upside down.  DO NOT use this method with an MTH Premier Pacific steam locomotive.  The valve gear will bind up and get destroyed.

I know someone will state it is no problem.  Choose advice carefully on this one.

Marty, how can that happen?  Sounds odd.

The linkage flops about and with the engine upside down finds a way to get jammed.  

Sounds to me like a design error, Marty.  If it can happen while loco is upside down, then it can happen in other positions given the right (wrong?) circumstances, like a rollover derailment. 

Not necessarily.  It is designed for upright motion, if tolerances of the holes or some other feature is different it may bind upside down.  Many manufactures have some pretty detailed and complex linkage.  G

When a loco is running fast and the rods are flailing wildly, I don't know if the effect of gravity isn't more than a very minor factor with centrifugal force dominating.  Interesting that this only apparently happens on one loco, the Premier Pacific.  MY guess would be that its linkage is [supposed to be] the same as other locos.

Momentum and Centrifugal force don't make them rotate 180 degrees.  G

But gravity does?  It would be interesting to physically examine the Premier Pacific and see exactly what does happen.  Without so doing, there's no way to have a discussion.

I remember postwar Lionel locos usally would have grooves on one set of driving wheels to hold the cranks in place, but some didn't and if the screw got a little loose, the cranks would rotate and jam.

Robert,

Trust me on this. If Marty says something is true, it's true. Period. You can take it to the bank.

Barry, if you carefully read the above posts, you shall not see me ever disputing Marty,  My question is WHY?

I would expect the maker of any product to design its product to withstand normal to-be-expected handling, which in the case of a model loco includes being held in an inverted position.

I guess they didn't think you'd run it upside down.

RJR , give it a whirl.  When you find you need the part numbers, give me a call.  I have them.  I would not have thrown this out if it did not exist.  I have seen this two times.  I get to work on a train or two every once in a while and I (at this point) remember bad things that happen to trains. 

Guys, they are still toys and things happen. 

You charge extra for folks that you've warned, right Marty?

Marty, I don't have that loco so have no need for parts.  My above posts are not doubting you, but because I am curious:  I like to know the why of various issues.  Is there something so different on that one loco?  Do not other MTH locos have the same setup, and if so why don't they have a problem.?  etc.  I'd like to examine one to figure out the why.

If you actually keep the parts in stock, you must encounter this often

As I noted above, I did encounter side rod/crank lockups some 50 or 60 years ago so I know they happen.

RJR, I stated I have the part numbers.  I do not stock them. I stated I have run into this two times.  This is not something I encounter often.   As I stated earlier, I do get to work on a train from time to time and have discovered this.  If you find out why, please let me know as I am always willing to learn. 

Every so often I ask myself why do I spend time trying to pass on information I have learned to help people with repairs or save them from situations I have observed and encountered.  I have shared information and given parts to help many forum members.  BTW RJR I own 286 MTH locomotives and work on many each week for a local dealer who sells a few trains.  I am not unfamiliar with the information I post.  I now realize that I have been wasting my time trying to be helpful. 

Please obtain the engine mentioned and try it. 

Marty,

Thanks for all of your input!

Robert,  Here is my explanation for why it can happen.  Not all valve gears rods pivot axially on a hole.  Some use curved slots.

When the engine sits upright, the valve gear rods hang in a vertical plane from the top of the slot.  When an engine is turned upside down, gravity does kick in and since the pivot points are now at the bottom of the rods, they hang out to the sides.  Additionally they no longer pivot from the top of a slot, but have a different start position.

So it is easy for me to understand how certain complex linkage may hang up or get caught if motion occurs in an upside down position, either bending the linkage or breaking the rivet.  G

Not in my case Marty, you've helped me out a number of times, and I've very grateful.  Don't stop posting on account of one exchange!

GGG, thanks for taking the time to provide an explanation.  Now I---and others on the forum---have an idea of what to check before running any loco in an inverted position.  If it happens with the Premier Pacific, as Marty says and I'm sure it does, then there is always the possibility it could happen to another.

Although this isn't applicable to modern electronic locomotives, I thought that I'd just mention that older locomotives with an electro-mechanical e-unit don't work very well upside down either. 

They run great Nicole, they just don't change directions all that well.

Very true. That's what I meant really.