Trying to design my new layout in Railmodeller Pro 4 Mac, and just can't seem to get it. Thought this would be the easy way, ugh, no. I'm just not computer savvy enough, seems to have been a waste of $ for me. Any experts want to please help a newbie out? Graciously appreciated! I can send you a pic of what I drew on graph paper.
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For O gauge, all 072 so I can run most anything. Measurements in feet. Far right side is meant to be "curvy" for a "snake" appearance as it meanders the wall. The line to the left of that is just an in/out siding. The left vertical main line is just basically the return. I really think this is what I'm going with, unless I'm just crazy and missing something. I'm thinking Gargraves with Ross switches? Thoughts from the pros, and anyone with the Railmodeller Pro expertise! Thanks Guys!!!
First, you should probably know that very few people here have asked about track planning software for the Mac, so I'm not sure how much help you might find.
Second, while I know nothing about how Rail Modeller Pro works, there is a free program found on-line called XtrackCAD which has a version for Macs. You might want to download and try it out, but, not being a Mac user, I honestly don't know if it's better or worse than the one program you bought.
Third, I've seen, and played with, free trial versions of several of the Windows-based track planning programs. None of them would be rated as particularly easy to use. In almost all cases, you are dealing with a CAD program pre-populated with track pieces trying to replicate specific manufacturers which you are then trying to assemble in a particular location and direction. NOT EASY! And the biggest hurdle is trying to get the pieces to all join; learning how to edit your work may be the most important step.
My recommendation is to spend more time with the program you purchased, not trying to build a layout first cat out of the bag. Just place and put a few pieces together and then practice modifying location, direction, number of pieces, etc. Once comfortable, then try actually constructing your layout. On paper, it doesn't seem too complicated to do.
Oh, and one comment about your drawn plan; if any of the sides, away from the obvious aisle to the left, are against a wall, draw a plan that allows you a minimum of 2.5' reach to any piece of track. That means include hatches for reach or shrink the plan so you have at least a 2' aisle all the way around the layout.
Good luck.
Chuck
Unfortunately there are very few track planning apps available for the MAC. I am not familiar with Railmodeller Pro 4. I have found AnyRail to be a very good and easy-to-use track planning program. However, it is Windows-only.
Already installed on your MAC is an app called "Bootcamp." It is an app that will allow you to run Windows programs on your MAC. Check it out HERE. Perhaps this might be a way to get into the Windows world, where there are several good track planning apps available.
RM Pro is a very good track planning software, I keep one Mac around just to run it! It is probably one of the easiest to use also. Maybe you can describe what issue you are having with it? I can try an throw a plan together and upload it for you when I get some time later today, your plan doesn't look that hard at first glance, hand drawn doesn't always transfer to software well though.
How far did you get with trying to use it? Do you have the shape of your layout in a "document"? With something to indicate where the no-go track areas are? I'm not an expert at it - but I would start with a document of 144x192 inches, then use something - shapes, maybe, which appear as a white - to indicate the no-track areas.
EDIT - didn't notice this at first - if I'm reading your posts correctly, you don't have room in that space for the track you specify - O72 won't fit in 6 feet at the top, for instance. If you could add another 6 inches or so to the 6 feet at the top, O72 would work.
Don't think track with that diameter will be able to make that turn to the narrow area, either, assuming you stay with O72. Well, it might, but you'd have a reverse curve, or S-curve - which could cause problems.
David
Going by the space limits in your drawing, this is the best I could do. Can not fit 072 in that space. Minimum curve on this plan is 042 to make it fit, with 064 on mainline. I used Ross switches and sectional track with gargraves flex for custom cut lengths. This will fit, but you are not going to get 072 with your track plan.
I have a Mac Pro that I use most everything for except when I end up running Bootcamp Windows for 3 things, games to play online with my Son, SCARM and Anyrail. I downloaded a couple for MAC OSX Modeling software but I never ended up really trying them because most folks are using the 2 fore mentioned Windows apps.
Hopefully @Darrell will be able to help you.
There is a 3rd option. You could run Oracle Virtual Box (it is free) and then install windows in a Virtual Machine running in the Virtual Box application on your Mac Desktop.
Good luck with your endeavors.
Eddie
@Hp289 posted:Trying to design my new layout in Railmodeller Pro 4 Mac, and just can't seem to get it. Thought this would be the easy way, ugh, no. I'm just not computer savvy enough, seems to have been a waste of $ for me. Any experts want to please help a newbie out? Graciously appreciated! I can send you a pic of what I drew on graph paper.
There's no information in this description that would allow even those of us who are familiar with RailModeller Pro to help you. We don't know if:
This post feels like you want somebody to do the work for you but you don't actually want to ask for that. Why not just ask? There are folks on the forum who have put together multiple designs (myself included) and/or shared their own layout plan files (myself included again) in an attempt to inspire others who are starting a new plan or help folks new to the SW get up to speed.
If, in fact, you're wanting to do the design yourself and encountering some problem with RailModeller Pro, sharing specific details about the issue you're encountering is the only path forward. You can also search around the RailModeller forum to see if the answers to your questions are there.
Mike and others. I don't think it's a software issue. I just think I can't figure out how to do it. I can't even get the baseboard thing to come out right. So lets just assume I'm techno challenged. Yes, I'm reaching out for assistance.
Darrell, thank you that is what I was trying to build, but I"m confused as to why 072 won't fit. Isn't that 6ft, so a 6ft table should just make it... I thought. I would like to stay with ALL 072 due to some of the larger engines I intend to purchase. After making the large loop in 072 for the big/new stuff, I was going to squeeze in some tighter tubular stuff in between on elevation. That part I'm not worried about, I'll just wing that with some menards tubular and have fun with it for the smaller post war Lionel I'll be running. For now, I'm only trying to get the above in 072 in Gargraves/Ross. Maybe I should ask the question, what would it take to make this work as 072? Forgive this newbie. Thx.
In many track systems, 072 means 72” diameter between the center rails. Meaning that a circle of 072 track will actually need maybe 80” of diameter to account for the width of outer rail and ties and clearance for locomotive overhang
Also, you can see my 1ft grid and my table outline, so if I enlarge slightly on the left top and bottom will it work?
Here's something with Gargraves track and Ross switches. 072 minimum. Note I did use flex in various places and many of the pieces could be combined. RailModeller file attached as well - it was created with Version 6.4.2 (Build 1308).
With Mike0289's version above, one problem becomes very apparent. Because the right side is shorter than the left side, he was forced to create an S-curve to get all the required switches in line. You would be much better off if you could extend the right side to the same length as the left side and make the switch locations on the right a mirror image of those on the left. S-curve avoided and smooth operations ahead.
Chuck
Thank you Mike and Darrell. PRR, I agree. Guys, basically I like Darrells version if it was 072 but with the sleeker S curve Mike created on the right side line. I would like that middle siding to be straight if possible. So, I see Mike stretched out the two curves to what looks like just under 7ft wide. I can do that, there is room.
If we make that 10 ft length at the bottom to 11, will that solve the problems? So, if it looks like Darrel's with Mike's 'S' curve -and is all 072 or greater- what is the minimum table size in this design?
Mike I can't blow up. the pic and see your measurements.
Mike, I cannot see the tiny numbers on the tracks. Is your snake S curve (which I love) 072, or is that softened to 096? Which is fine by me. I'm just trying to understand. The whole point of minimum 072 is just so I can run Big Boys.
@Hp289 posted:Mike, I cannot see the tiny numbers on the tracks..... The whole point of minimum 072 is just so I can run Big Boys.
Hp289, You should be able to save the .layout file he attached, and drop it onto RailModeller. Then you can get a better look at it. Or, if you have saved it, click on Open in the File menu in RailModeller. But to answer your question, it looks like 072 - though a couple of the short pieces at the top might be wider.
Perhaps others reading this could address this - will a Big Boy handle reversing or S curves at 072? And Hp289 - it might also help to know which version of a Big Boy you plan to run.
David
I'll look after work later this afternoon, thx. I'm grateful for the assistance, you guys are a big help for the techno challenged. I'd love to get this right and get some Gargraves and Ross materials list and move forward on this. My upstairs game room is scheduled for the new carpet and paint in 2 weeks. It's all starting to finally happen!
There aren't any true S curves in this plan - they all have straight sections of at least a couple inches between. I have some similar sections in my layout (but with 048 curves) and my Legacy DD35A and LC+2.0 Big Boy have no problem navigating them. I can't say for sure how well that concept scales to locos with 072 minimum radius. Maybe others can weigh in there.
Putting a small piece of straight track between 2 parts of an S-curve does not eliminate the effects of an S-curve unless most of your equipment and all of your engines are shorter than that piece of straight track. Even a "smaller" Big Boy might have trouble going through an S-curve with just a 10" piece of straight separating the 2 pieces of the curve.
And, please note that this is further complicated by the fact your S-curve is caused by switch locations. Switches can be notorious for causing derailments; adding the S-curve just increases that likelihood.
Chuck
Also, what are your absolute limits for the table dimensions? Say we're at 17 and a half feet now. Is that it? What about that extra foot, from 10 to 11? is that it, there? I'm guessing so, to allow room to get by - but good to know for sure. Lastly - the open area in the middle - could the table be wider than 3 feet through there? I just mean a little - 4 or 6 inches, say.
Asking only to avoid little jumps along the way. Get right to the end.
David
David, your assessment is correct. 17.5 really really maxes me out to be able to walk by and have a little chair there for watchers. I can probably push it closer to the top wall, say 18" from wall. It's really just a squeeze in to fix things like derailments. About 11 is also max to be able to get by that particular spot. Yes, we can make that narrow section 6 inches more from 3 ft to 3.5 feet. I'm trying desperately not to go less than 4 ft in between so I have room to sit on a tall stool and put in a very narrow side table with electronics.
Chuck, which switches are you referring to? What I am calling the S curve is the snake like right side run. I obviously don't want to plan and build something with built-in inherent problems. I really really want to get this right. I just want to be able to run those giant VisionLine Monsters without issues. I'd like to get a couple. If they run well, all the normal stuff should be a pice of cake.
Gentlemen, I am grateful for your assistance, however, the discouragement is building. I went back upstairs and thought thought thought and measured. I'm too optimistic about the 17.5 feet. I need to keep it close to 16. I think that seems to be the deal breaker based on your expertise. It seems trying to figure this out ahead of time via computer is more than I can do at this time and my layout "design" seems to be flawed based on my space. If I abandon this plan, would an around the room plan be better? I have never owned my own layout, so I just don't have the expertise. I am attaching one more pic of an around the wall layout table. Basically, I have to avoid the attic door and the 3 feet at the bottom. If I kept it 3 feet all around with 5 feet where it is double sided access, would 072 or bigger work now? I'd have to come up with a bridge and all, but I have seen some guys on here with great bridge access, so it's doable. Is this the smarter move? Essentially it will be a large loop/double loop, not as interesting though, no?
Hp289, it's miserable when reality conflicts with our dreams, and it happens quite often with track planning. Many here would be extremely happy to have the space you plan to use, but as you've quickly learned, squeezing O72 curves into a decent plan with the space and restrictions you have to deal with isn't going to work well. However, before considering options, think about what you plan to do with your railroad.
There are two primary options. First would be to run a couple of loops around an open center in your room with maybe a couple of sidings to stage other trains for alternating runs. Some people create their yard on a peninsula that only connects to one side of your loop and make that connection a wye so that engines can be turned to lead the train out of the yard.
Second would be to develop a plan that lets your trains operate like a real railroad (usually a branch line or an industrial complex given the amount of room you have and the size of equipment (O gauge)). To do this in your space, you would have to use smaller curve sizes and smaller equipment sizes (your Big Boy becomes a shelf piece), but I can almost guarantee that you and any visitors will have a lot more fun running a real railroad. Heck, you might even be able to include a "disguised" loop into this type of plan so if you just wanted to watch smaller trains run, that would still be possible.
I have also attached a drawing of the right side of your earlier plan with the S-curve identified. To reduce the bad effects of S-curves, the straight part between the 2 switches has to be as long (or nearly as long) as your longest piece of equipment.
Thanks Chuck, I think I have to switch to the around the room layout. Seems to make the most sense to say at 072, like you said a couple loops, maybe a reverse or something and some kind of 2/3 siding yard on the long straight away. What do you mean by "make that connection a wye so that engines can be turned to lead the train out of the yard."
Give me a few days, starting my run of 12 hour days at work. Hopefully I can come up with something by Wednesday. Don't give up! My hard drive is full of track plans that don't always work out, but designing can be as fun as running your trains once you get the hang of it. Tore up all my track this weekend only to find that my 042 switches don't fit together for the crossover like RM Pro or SCARM say they do, so had to go with a backup track plan. That's ok, because the 072 switches make a gentler s curve which is not that big a deal anyway with my non scale size equipment. I'll just screw a 2x4 to the end of the table to support the 1inch of track hanging over the edge,LOL!
Thanks Darrell, but all night I've been thinking and I'm now convinced to go with the around the room plan. I'd love your input though!!!
An around the room plan is always better for maximum operation. Glad to see you are thinking along those lines now.
Hp289, I have attached a photo and a SCARM file showing a wye entrance to a peninsula yard. This design uses mostly Atlas O track with a few Ross switches because I thought they might save space. Please note that with O72 curves, this layout feature extends 14' from the bottom wall and still provides only a modest yard. BUT, it certainly improves operation capability. Please note that there are several ways to make this concept smaller (tighter switch curves (O63, O54, etc.), sharper entry curves, and shorter yard tracks), but you have to maintain that crossover at the top of the yard for your engine to escape and use the wye to turn around.
To the potential critics, I know that not everything connects as drafted, and that he uses a Mac (thus no access to SCARM for now), but I included the info here just to "paint" a concept not understood by some and provided the software file for other potential readers with interest.
Chuck
Chuck, thank you, it still confuses me some, but I'm trying to follow along. With the around the room layout based on my room, what if I put a 6.5 cube table against the left wall just above the attic door, AND another near the bottom left, just leaving 2'3 feet to walk past it on the left to get to the attic door and furthest down without going into the 3 foot buffer isle to walk in the room? Then I could make a 36" table run around the whole wall and have 072 everywhere? Will that work? That may solve the problem, no?
I know everyone is busy, what are the suggestions for around the room going with one of the last two table designs I put up. I'm leaning on your expertise.
I'm think I might have something soon, these 12+ hour days really slow me down.....
This is a quick and dirty plan I threw together in SCARM, let me know What you think. I can work something like this up RM Pro if you like maybe tomorrow.
Not sure that's a fit for me. The siding in the middle seems odd to me. The rest of the plan I think I like. Is it all 072? I am grateful for the assistance.
Can the long length on the right be stretched to 16'? Is the left wall a full 8 or 9'? And, if you look at my very first sketch at the top of this post, is it possible to incorporate one fo the long lengths to be wavy like in my sketch? Thx!
Let me sleep on it...
Thank you!
Hp289, your two 6.5' squares at the end of an "around-the-room" layout might work, but your square against the left wall has reach issues unless you leave the center open and either duck-under or build a lift bridge to reach the center when necessary. The only problem I see with that idea is that your trains would seem to spend more time on the reversing loops than actually running on the straight and narrow. I don't know, but maybe that's what you want?
Personally, I prefer Darrell's plan. It leaves you with only three corners, provides a couple of nice straight runs and a location for a town and/or industrial area, and provides a wye (for turning engines) into a peninsula for a yard area (not just a couple of sidings). The only improvement I might suggest is to use a couple of curved turnouts off of the wye into the peninsula so that, in the end, your peninsula yard points more to the north end of the layout. That might give you a little more yard room and allow for widening the peninsula after the wye entry.
Chuck
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