Stop thinking squares! This plan has an 080 outer loop with a 072 inner loop. There is a passing siding and a way to cross over from one loop to the other. No benchwork is wider than 2 feet! You can still add yard tracks or even a small 4x8 layout inside this one and still have access to all track without having to stretch to reach it. BTW, I suck at making wavy tracks, that is something we actively try to avoid! LOL!
Just for fun, my layout has 042 on the mainline and 031 on the inner loop. Here is a picture of mine inside the proposed layout for you.
I would love to have the room you have for a layout!
Maybe a simple teardrop turnaround off one of the sidings? You guys are great and know so much! Something underneath, or over top elevated in a corner?
Something like this?
Darrell, Not sure about the turnaround. Feels odd, and now there is a duck under inside the loop which I don't really care for. Is there any other secrets/methods to change directions?
Reverse loops and wye turn arounds take up a lot of space and are hard to implement. I use the "Hand of God" method.
I'll have to think on this some more.
Hand of God? That's funny. Thank you for the help. I think we are on to something!
Could try the wye again, but you didn't seem to like it before.
I include the track plan file for RM Pro, you could load it up and play with it and see if there is something you like.
I guess I don't understand it. Loops make more sense to me.
Well, to be able to turn a train around in either direction you need 2 loops which can end up being the entire layout, or just 1 wye that takes up less space and doubles as a yard (spur tracks). I have another 3 days of 12 hour shifts starting, I will revisit this on the weekend.
@Hp289 posted:I guess I don't understand it. Loops make more sense to me.
I recommend you familiarize yourself with real life railroad operations. Trains change directions in 1 of 2 ways: a wye or a turntable. 99% of the time just the engine gets turned at the wye while the rest of the train sits on the main. Or using a runaround track the engine uncouples, goes around the train on the runaround track, couples to the other end of the train and makes the return trip in reverse (front of the engine coupled to the the consist).
-Greg
Greg, You are right, I am not familiar, I was just hoping to enjoy playing with toy trains. Since I inherited my cache of old Lionels after dad's passing, I have had a giant learning lesson! I had no idea about curve diameters, spacing because of modern larger trains, and all the fancy new wiring. Heck, dad just had those old snap ons. I'm grateful a forum like this exists and I'm thankful for those of you who have the desire to be a helper! It is appreciated. I have MUCH to learn.
Darrell, anything jutting out in the middle kills it esthetically for me. I may just have to run two trains in opposite directions and use imagination. Unless your genius comes up with a loop design that can work. Didn't Kramer say "levels" its all about levels? lol.
I might have an idea, give me a few days to work it out......
Darrel, et al... Maybe I should be consider something like this? easier benchwork for sure. Big area for an 080 and 072 loops and room on the 48" Side for yard and parking in the corner of the room. Lots of space between the tables and if I keep it at 30-36" on the wall side, no reach problems. Am I off key, or on to something? Again, I mean it when I say I'm thankful for the assistance.
This table plan leaves a lot of room for 080 and 072 with at least 6" clearance in between to allow for all the overhang of bigger trains. The room is finally empty. But the new carpet can't go in until the end of August, it's crazy how so many things are hard to get now or overpriced. Even new carpet. I think Darrell's plan can stretch out to meet this, no?
These last two pics are what I have narrowed down my benchwork decision to. This one is an easy build but I stretched out my in-between area to 5' and stretched the right side against the wall part to 18', but the left must stay at 16'. There must be a way for two large loops here that semi matches Darrells plan.
So, here's obsession for ya, it's 3:48 am and I'm messing with the program trying to learn it and build something. I know everyone is busy, but I hadn't had a reply in a while so I'm obsessing on my own. This layout perfectly fits my room and the benchwork in my previous pic. It's in Railmodeller Pro 4 Mac, but I couldn't figure out how to upload the actual track plan file. Am I on to something? I seem to like it a bunch. Thoughts?
When you make a post here, look to the bottom right hand side, in the blue area, for "Add Attachments." Click on that, and the forum software File Chooser box opens underneath an "explorer" type box of your computer hard drive. Search for and click on the file you want to post, then click on Open in the "explorer" type box. The forum software then begins to upload your file. PLEASE wait until the File Chooser box Status column says "Successful," then click on Finished in the File Chooser box. Now you are back at the Add Reply box where you have to click on "Post Reply."
Your information and attachments should now appear on the forum thread.
Note, this explanation doesn't go into all the details of the Attachment process (e.g. when you first open the File Chooser box, you can select multiple files to upload). Please read the details of the File Chooser box when you see it, and remember you can always edit a post if you don't like the way it looks.
After all of this, I'm not sure how this works on an Apple product; I'm just guessing it will be somewhat similar.
Chuck
I think it worked; just can't tell for sure because I'm not a Mac user. Another tip, for those of us without your product, does the software allow you to export a layout picture file? If so, posting that let's the rest of us know what your layout looks like.
Chuck
Thanks Chuck, I think it worked, you should all be able to see it now. I have only a few issues.
1. No way to turn around.
2. 3 spots don't line up well. I think 2 of them can be corrected with the use of flex track and trimming, BUT I have never done it and do not truthfully know its limitations.
3. The 3rd spot is at the bottom. That needs to be a bridge. Preferably not a duck under, but as last resort, is what it is. I prefer to make it a hinge open to the right that I can lift up to walk in. I have been reading threads on their construction and think I can handle it if I can get it planned in correctly with the track. I think it's another spot that has to be hand fitted with flex track.
PLEASE share constructive criticism and tell me if I am messing up deviating from the nice plan Darrell worked up. For some reason, I seem to like this one in my space, except for these issues. It would be awesome if they could be overcome reasonably. THX.
BOOM! All Ross track and switches!
Or this, still all Ross!
Darrell, Sorry the wife has company over this evening, so it's hard for me to peek as this. Both are excellent designs. A few questions... is it still not realistic to be able to easily turn around? It appears to all be 080 and 072 so that works great, but why Ross tracks? I thought the school of thought was to use Ross switches for reliability but Gargraves track? I plan on running Big Boys and other articulated every obnoxious large engines, I'd like to have a solid 6" between tracks so there is no chance of hitting scenery, signals and such. I plan an elevated postwar tubular track also so I need some room in-between for posts, girders and such. Just out of curiosity teach me, what is wrong with my latest track plan? I'll check back later this evening.
Both layout plans have 4" center rail to center rail spacing everywhere, including the sidings and yards. Unless you are running equipment that requires 099 curves I think it should be ok. 3.5" spacing is pretty standard in hi rail layouts, toy train layouts can run 7.5" for 042 switches to 8.5" for 031 switches. If you use 072 switches will get you 6" of spacing. Using Ross track and switches and 4" spacing keeps the geometry simple as it gets with no cutting of track needed. I have uploaded both plans, you can adjust them to suit you, after all it is your layout. What makes you happy is all that matters. The only way to turn trains around is by adding a peninsula to the inside of the top loop so you can put a 072 reverse loop in with a wye lead in. It will take a lot of space, and you don't like the look of them.
Using your plan I switched to Ross track so the geometry works, and I added a reverse loop. The train can enter and turn around going forward in one direction, but has to back threw the loop to reverse direction the other way. This is the only way I know of to do what you are asking in the space you have with the spacing and curves you want.
I have never use Ross switches or Gargraves track, but in using RM Pro and SCARM to design layouts, all I can say is people must love cutting and bending their track to make it work. It sure enough doesn't line up correctly in the software, I don't know, maybe it does in real life. I suspect they are using just the flex track and not the sectional track with the Ross switches.
Darrell, I dig the last one. I am going to play with it a few hours and see what floats. I'll check back in later. Thanks!
That's a good thing! It's your plan, LOL!
Here's the same plan in SCARM, I had to change some tracks and even cut one to get it to work. I have no idea which software is more accurate but I have had great success with RM Pro.
I'm at it. If I am seeing this correct the loop will allow one change of direction from clockwise to counter clockwise, bu them I am stuck at counter clockwise without another loop? Right? If so, that's kinda pointless. No?
Once you go thru the loop, you have to back thru it the next time to reverse direction. It can be done, but long trains can suffer derailments when backing up thru curves and switches.
It's not optimal, but it is the only way to reverse that fits in your requirements.
Yep. Loop out. Hand of God, In.
Outer mainline 072 with 2 reversing loop, inner branch line 064. You will notice a lot a nasty S curves in this plan.
Better.
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