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I have ruined way too much track, carpets, sub roadbeds with ballast and glue.  I want retrievable track in order to move or change layout design easily.  I hate ballast.  Been there done that.  Currently have 2 inch foam over plywood and ready to lay track.  Anyone come up with any tricks to lay down Ross/GarGraves track and make it look decent (not perfect) without ballast glue combo?  Ballast is perpetual mess.

Also what roadbed do you use?  Technique?  How do you reversibly attach track to roadbed and or foam?  Thanks 

Last edited by johnshorse
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hello

what I have used in the past and will use on my current layout I am building and it cost less is cat litter I do not glue it to the track and I keep a brush handy so if I need to tidy it up I just brush it back to where it goes has worked great for me and when I need to remove track I use a shop vac and vac it up I will look for photos for you 

kevin

I have some sound board glued to a plywood top with liquid nails.  I use 3M spray adhesive to glue green felt to the top of that.  Then Elmer's wood glue to glue Midwest Cork to the felt.  Lastly I use Atlas track screws to screw my Atlas track in place.  The screws do not get into the plywood and the combo of cork and sound board is strong enough that the screws don't pull out.

I've always like the look of Atlas track on cork roadbed in any gauge.

I used cork, which is fine,for me as I recall ballast being more dirty, dusty brown than the clean grey I see,on the same lines today.

It is on foam, on wood. The track is 'pinned' with short screws vs being driven into the wood which transmits more sounds to the layout and room than pinning to the foam. One loop had nylon fasteners but they transmitted more sound too.

You can create a faux ballast using carpet. You can either use low pile carpet, or carpet high enough to fit between the ties. Look for grays with a speckled pattern. Visit a couple of carpet/home inprovement stores to find samples. If you choose to use carpet, spray it with glue to lock the fibers from getting into the train wheels.

johnshorse posted:

I have ruined way too much track, carpets, sub roadbeds with ballast and glue.  I want retrievable track in order to move or change layout design easily.  I hate ballast.  Been there done that.  Currently have 2 inch foam over plywood and ready to lay track.  Anyone come up with any tricks to lay down Ross/GarGraves track and make it look decent (not perfect) without ballast glue combo?  Ballast is perpetual mess.

Also what roadbed do you use?  Technique?  How do you reversibly attach track to roadbed and or foam?  Thanks 

Super easy solution!!! Stop using glue! I have an entire video devoted to that on YouTube on the glacier line Channel. I'm with you, this track is way too expensive to destroy when you decide you need to move it or change something. My ballast has not been glued down on my giant layout now for over 2 to 3 years and is just fine. I hear all the complaints it moves around or it gets in the engine or causes too many problems excetera excetera excetera. The only problem I ever had was when I glued the track down and then I wanted to add a siding or change something and then it was a major problem. And a huge mess! No more glue!

I've been using 3/8" thick anti-fatigue mat from Lowes, comes on a 3'x5' roll and can be easily cut with a box cutter or on a bandsaw.

DSCN0190DSCN0192layout Aug 2018_05layout Aug 2018_08

Every couple of feet I drilled 2 holes thru the plywood and snaked a small zip-tie up and over one of the ties, then back thru the other hole to hold the track and roadbed in place (don't over tighten the zip-tie).

I don't plan on using ballast either and glued or not (it does get inside your gearing, along with carpet lint and pet hair).  I may try some of the textured stone paint IF I can devise a way to keep it on the sides of the roadbed and not all over the layout.

As you can see, I used a couple of entire rolls to cover the yard.  I cut the angled edges for the mainline using my bandsaw but it can be done using an Xacto blade if you're careful, doc you should have no problems!!!

At one time the rubber (when it could be bought by the foot off a long roll like carpet) was cheaper than cork, not sure anymore.

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  • layout Aug 2018_05
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My "grass" is a heavy green felt I bought at Joan Ann's fabrics on sale 50% off... so I thought about the same but gray, then cut to fit under the track.  Just thought about it.  I'm a bit lazy when it comes to stuff like this and since I haven't really done it,  it just goes into the ideas category (& appears similar to other suggestion such as carpet above).   But I'm like you, well maybe even more so -- while my track no longer resides on the floor -- it can't be fixed in nature and has to from time to time be boxed up and put away -- so I need to make accommodation for that...

 

Lot's of ho folk use small amounts of old school white caulk. Less is more. Removed by putty knife. It's often pantable if you ooze white and it sets. Read the lable. Lash it down with wire Like heavy floral wire. Solid copper. Etc. Drill a hole(s) to overlap the edge of the edge on each side of a tie, and from under it, wrap up&over the tie, twist tight underneath. One big hole used and looping thru a washer on the bottom will hold it there. Zip ties are used along the same lines. Removal of wrapping is just snip, snip, snip. I've been playing with some thin plywood. It was a drum alone on 2 long 2x4s stood 4"high as a base. Two fairly flat, short nap terry towles over the 2x4s and the drumming was nearly gone. I moved the towels to under the track and everything went silent. I'm going to play with sandwiching a layer of cloth between boards. The PITA is all holes will kneed to be known and predrilled and the cloth's hole cut or punched ahead of time; like a big gasket. (Can't drill cloth ) A diamond ringed spot weld cutter /grinder would do it if you have one kicking around (I did at times) I'm really curious if the towel is stopping a bunch of reflective sound as well. I have some dense rubber sheets to test a layer of too. But I'm thinking two layers stacked and trimmed to fit into 0-27 ties, on 1/4" plywood, on cloth, on 1/4" plywood. But I think silence is my goal. So if I have to I 'll use a short nap grey towel, a longer nap forest green one, tan pillow case and light brown fleece for ground cover. I used thinner green foam on ply and it drummed. I layed a couple of tubes of rubbery foam adheasive down and it helped.

I can think of a way to have ballast that may meet both your objections to ballast (IE ruins the track, the mess).  Here is my thought (my example uses a piece of gargraves 36" track, could work with any length of track, or you could use 3 10" pieces, etc)

1)Have a length of roadbed material cut to be the length of the track(s) you will be using) on a work area away from the layout (in my example 36"). I don't recommend doing a longer length than that, as will be seen moving that from the work area to the layout gets more difficult as the length increases, because you don't want to flex it. 

2)Lay the section of track on the rubber roadbed, making sure to center it as best as possible, that it is laid straight as well (this might be tricky). If worried about shifting, you could use paper masking tape to hold the track in place on the sides/ends.

3)Ballast the track as you would if it was on the layout, use diluted glue, whatever to hold it. 

4)Let it dry, at least to the point where the ballast is set enough not to move. 

5)Remove the track piece.  On the roadbed you should see the track profile outlined by the ballast you glued down

6)Secure the roadbed piece to your table, being careful not to flex it too much moving it (this is the one weakness of this, flexing it likely would cause ballast to fall off,maybe lay it on a 36" piece of wood to carry it over)

7)Lay the 'real' track you want to lay on the roadbed with the ties where the ballast isn't (basically when you are done, you shouldn't see any roadbed between the rails). 

In a sense, you are creating pre done roadbed with ballast, sort of a distant kind of fasttrack and the like. 

When creating the roadbed, you don't need to use sections of track to do the dirty work, you could create a jig easy enough using wood with the same profile as the track ties you are using cut to tie length for the track, and space them correctly for the track type and use strip wood nailed to the ties to hold it in the right alignment. I haven't tried this with track, but have done similar projects in other areas of modelling. 

 

Another possible thing to try (I haven't, this is strictly something I thought of)

1)For roadbed, use something akin to the height of fast track or the like (relatively high),needs to be deeper than tie depth

2)Cut a piece of something akin to sandpaper (Sandpaper itself might work, with like 40 grit,but likely expensive), or the roofing material like the black mineral roofing roll HD has, it comes in a roughly 3' by 35" roll, which with let's say 5" wide roadbed, would give you roughly 6 pieces, and it is a little over a 1 a foot/6 pieces per foot. Cut the piece wide enough that it is the width of the top of the roadbed material + 2xdepth (so if the roadbed is 5" wide, and its depth is let's say 5/16, you would cut it 5 5/8" wide or so (it may be different if the roadbed  is bevelled, you would need to calculate the width, or cut the piece wide then trim it)

So in my example of 36" section of roadbed, you could cut a piece 5 5/8"w x 36" long

3)Using spray tack or similar adhesive, glue the material to the top of the roadbed and to the sides as well, should totally cover it (trim any excess) 

4)Using a section of track (or a jig with the ties spaced properly) laid on top of the material/roadbed, outline the ties on the material (trace around them).Make sure to align the track properly to the center line before doing this. You may want to secure the track with paper tape to keep it from moving. 

5)Move the track aside, and using a hobby knife, cut the outline of the ties, going deep, and remove the roadbed material to a depth where the ties can fit nearly flush with the roadbed.

6)Put the track onto the roadbed, aligning the ties with the cutouts made through the material and press it down until the ties are down fully in the roadbed. 

7)Glue roadbed and track section to the layout. Added benefit, no nails going through to the wood subsurface, will help reduce noise. 

Because it has the material not just under the track, but the sides, it will look like there is ballast there. This probably would work better if the roadbed material has bevelled edges, but even if not but this would meet a lot of the criteria, won't hurt the track (added benefit, the track because it is 'sunk' in the roadbed can't move,you likely won't need nails), no mess and very little to no risk of the material having lose grit to clog engines and such. If you need to remove a section of track, it is pretty easy. 

Both approaches will require finding roadbed that is easy to work with but especially in the second approach, is rigid enough to handle the track and not 'squish down' under the weight of the trains (cork would work, some stiff foams would work, might even be able to use insulation foam if  you can find the right depth). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Last edited by bigkid
johnshorse posted:

I have ruined way too much track, carpets, sub roadbeds with ballast and glue.  I want retrievable track in order to move or change layout design easily.  I hate ballast.  Been there done that.  Currently have 2 inch foam over plywood and ready to lay track.  Anyone come up with any tricks to lay down Ross/GarGraves track and make it look decent (not perfect) without ballast glue combo?  Ballast is perpetual mess.

Also what roadbed do you use?  Technique?  How do you reversibly attach track to roadbed and or foam?  Thanks 

What type of glue have you used in the past?  If you used acrylic glues, they're pretty much water-proof when they dry.  I use Elmer's Glue-All, mixed 50-50 with water, as a ballast glue.  Dries flat and clear.  And still water-soluble even after dry.  Just soak with some water, wait for it to loosen up, then you can take the track up.  Soak/rinse the track as much as needed to remove all the ballast, then let dry before re-using.

Retrievable track to move or change layout design more easily?  Maybe trading in the GarGraves/Ross track for MTH RealTrax or Lionel Fastrack with the built-in roadbed may be a more logical option? 

Cheap and attractive for the table layout:  Dried, used, coffee grounds, secured with Elmer's white glue, 50-50.  I just spray it on liberally, and spoon on as much coffee grounds as needed to make it attractive.

More expensive and attractive for the overhead layout:  Cork roadbed.  Can't have that coffee roadbed falling on your guest's heads, haha.

Jerry

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