Recommended plywood for layout?

3/4 inch is good for a layout.   1/2 inch tends to warp more expecially cheaper construction grades.    You want sonmething that is dimensionally the same thickness over all and from piece to piece so as you extend the layout y ou don't have steps.  

I did find a particle board product years ago that is very accurate stable - it was not a "flake" board but fine particles.   It was very heavy.

3/4 inch these days if of 11/16 or somesuch also.    It does not matter as long as you can match pieces.

I don't think 1/4 inch anything is good for legs.    Did you mean 1x4 pine?  

some people have had the 3/4 inch plywood ripped to 4 inch widths for legs.    Some lumber yards do this for a very nominal fee.

I made the mistake of using 1/2 AC plywood and it is very crude and warped a bit.    I think a "good" 1/2 inch might work with decent bracing.

Alex,

This is one fine example of where "Search" is your friend.  I typed in 'plywood' into the OGR Search Box and got this list, just from 2022 year-to-date alone:

   Tabletop question: Foam on plywood | Great Lakes RR

   Styrofoam On A Platform--Not Plywood On 2x4's | Don Merz 070317

   Plywood shortage - alternatives? | TomSuperO

   OSB VS Plywood | Kenneth Willis

   Plywood | Stephen G

Take a look.  Use the Search.  There's a gold mine out there.  This is one of the most repeated topics for the entire OGR forum.

Good luck in your search, and in your build.

Mike

Menards has half inch Baltic birch for 124 dollars a sheet, I just checked their website. Home Depot has SANDE-PLY cabinet grade for 58 dollars ( not a bad choice ). I called my local lumberyard and they said 80 bucks a sheet for half inch Baltic birch (my cost).  Your supplier must have misquoted.   I have been been building cabinets for a living for 44 years so I know a little about plywood and personally my choice is always appleply because it is manufactured without formaldehyde but Baltic birch is a fine choice also.  It’s your railroad so whatever makes you happy.  

For me it’s the framing that makes all the difference. I used 1x4’s 35 years ago for 7/16” particleboard. Never had any warped platforms to this day. I made up 4x8 and 2x8 platforms and used many times over.

Baltic Birch plywood is overkill for a layout surface on top of joists.  The high ply count per thickness gives Baltic Birch strength - needed for some applications but not a typical layout.

I have never had problems with 1/2 or 3/4 cabinet-grade Birch warping even when supports are posts irregularly spaced (I use the Birch for elevated track).

Construction-grade pine/fir/whatever is prone to warping (especially the cheaper grades) unless the joist system is well built.  Get a bad batch and you'll waste a lot of time getting it right.  That said, I have a collection of 4x4 ft platforms built with 9/16 sheathing ply that are doing fine.

I haven't tried Sande, but it may be the least expensive cabinet grade ply available.

Then there are particle and OSB sheets.  The cheaper grades can be problematic.

My layouts are built from modules so the heavy-weight materials are a non starter.  Decks are less than 1/2".  Future modules will likely use rigid foam.

@Tracker John posted:

Baltic Birch plywood is overkill for a layout surface on top of joists.  The high ply count per thickness gives Baltic Birch strength - needed for some applications but not a typical layout.

I have never had problems with 1/2 or 3/4 cabinet-grade Birch warping even when supports are posts irregularly spaced (I use the Birch for elevated track).

Construction-grade pine/fir/whatever is prone to warping (especially the cheaper grades) unless the joist system is well built.  Get a bad batch and you'll waste a lot of time getting it right.  That said, I have a collection of 4x4 ft platforms built with 9/16 sheathing ply that are doing fine.

I haven't tried Sande, but it may be the least expensive cabinet grade ply available.

Then there are particle and OSB sheets.  The cheaper grades can be problematic.

My layouts are built from modules so the heavy-weight materials are a non starter.  Decks are less than 1/2".  Future modules will likely use rigid foam.

Good advice above.   Like several others on the forum, I'm an experienced woodworker - I love baltic birch plywood, but it's overkill for a layout.  Remember that you're building a train platform - not a house or fine furniture.  Most layouts are over-built, wasting time, material, and money. 

Buy good quality straight boards for your benchwork.  If your environment is such that the platform is likely to warp, mitigate the temperature and moisture issues before you start - if the environment is bad, you'll be fighting problems forever and it will affect your track, electronics, and everything else.

A lot of this depends on your basic approach to the layout: open grid vs plywood sheet. Most folks seriously interested in scenery on a bigger layout opt for open grid. My layout is open grid, with plywood strips under the track, on risers. My plywood of choice was baltic birch, mostly because I build doll houses using baltic birch. Layers are thinner, meaning it is stronger, there are no voids, ever, and it is delightful to work with.

Considering what most of us spend on a serious layout, the extra cost of reliable plywood really is not that significant, like perhaps a few new boxcars. 

Another silly factor influenced my choice... I have a large layout, I knew it would be several years before I applied scenery to the whole thing. I just didn't want to look at ugly CD for those years...  LOL

Jan

My 12' x 44' rectangular donut layout was built using 2x4s I got for free from a friend who tore down a carport. Lot of nail pulling, but being retired, time pulling nails was not a problem.

For plywood, I used 4x8x 5/8 CDX "Blows" I got from an ACE hardware store/lumberyard. (Blows are seconds - some defects, mainly some glue blew through knot holes in my case, again had time to get rid of excess glue from surface)

Didn't care that surface of plywood looked bad as I covered the surface of the whole layout with a fiber sound deadening material - 4x8x1/2 - bought at Home Depot.

If you are going to cover the total layout surface with a sound deadening material (homasote, rigid foam insulation, carpet, etc) the I would go with 5/8 or 3/4 thick CDX plywood sheets.

There you are, two different approaches, both entirely valid and logical. This is a hobby, follow your heart!

Consensus is to stick with thicker plywood. This is good advice.

This has been beaten to death. Having said that. My layout is 17 years old with 1/2 osb showing no signs of warping.

Use whatever you like. It's a bit ironic that some folks insist it has to be Baltic birch. When there's a good chance any modeler who has a layout in a  modern home. The home has osb for most  if not all, of the roof ,flooring ,and walls.

@RickO posted:

Use whatever you like. It makes me giggle when folks say it has to be Baltic birch. When there's a good chance any modeler who has a layout in a  modern home. The home has osb for most  if not all, of the roof ,flooring ,and walls.

It doesn't have to be any special material, it's just nicer to work with good wood.

The OSB that was used in building a lot of the Toll Brothers houses has crumbled long before 20 years, and whole sides of houses have fallen off!  I have a good friend that's a contractor, he makes a ton of money fixing Toll Brothers houses!

Not a fan of OSB, Toll brothers houses, well......

Birch plywood is good when making cabinets and such, it is def overkill on a layout. I agree with others, that the benchwork is important. If you build a ladder frame on 16" centers, half in plywood will work fine IME, it won't warp. You don't need to build the frame out of 2x4's, 1x4's work well. If the plywood has long unsupported runs (like you put it on a couple of sawhorses) the 3/4 would be a great idea.

It doesn't have to be pretty looking, unsanded plywood is perfectly fine.  My only recommendation is if you ca afford it, get the plywood from a lumber yard, not a big box store. There is a type of plywood someone mentioned that is kind of cosmetically imperfect they will sell at a cheaper price, something like that would work.

Stay away from OSB or particle board, they are junk.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

It doesn't have to be any special material, it's just nicer to work with good wood.

Yes.... water that runs behind stucco from a gutter wouldn't be good for plywood either.

I've been around new construction for 32 years in Illinois.  Hundreds of thousands of homes and counting use osb. I've yet to see any crumble, at least, as long as they don't have severe water intrusion.😉

No question Baltic birch is good stuff. I just don't think folks finding it too pricy for their budget should feel osb won't work.

A comment on over-built layouts ... if you move, how does the layout get removed or moved?  I spent several days earlier this year helping disassemble a large 3/4" Birch on 2x4 frames layout ahead of a house sale.  The vertical supports were built as knee walls (vs. legs).  You could have a dance party on the layout deck.  This for an HO layout.  The carpenter was in love with 3" drywall screws to put it together.  A large percentage snapped when backed out.   Not fun.

A/C  (A grade one side/C grade other side), most plyscore/plywood is water resistant, used for roofing.  As mentioned, better grades, equate to better wood, and process assembly.   It's been a while, almost 20 years, I used an MDO board,  Medium Density Overlay, Used for exterior signs.  Can be purchased with one, or both sides, a smooth, paint-able, surface.  MDO would be expensive, difficult to find in the big box stores.

@RickO posted:

Yes.... water that runs behind stucco from a gutter wouldn't be good for plywood either.

Actually, I've seen the difference between plywood and OSB behind stucco, and the difference is huge!

@Lionel2056 posted:

I got a few questions. I am looking for plywood to start the bench work. I looked at Baltic birch, but the sheets were 209 a sheet which is beyond what I am willing to spend per sheet.

That's insane!   Just before the pandemic, I spend less than $24/sheet for 5x5 1/2" Baltic Birch, that's less than $1 a sq/ft!  That's like a 600% increase in price!

@Tracker John posted:

A comment on over-built layouts ... if you move, how does the layout get removed or moved?

Not a problem most people own a chainsaw.   Besides, I ain't moving this layout, so that's a moot point.

Oh Lordie,

Not this question again.

Don't overlook 2x3 lumber for legs and cross bracing. Due to thickness, it is very easy to nail or power screw the framing together and it is very rigid.  And screw two pieces together edge to edge to form a right angle, and these are great for table legs.  Use 1x2 lumber for diagonal cross bracing of the legs. You only need the bracing to start at half -way up the legs and then up 45 degrees to the table bottom to be secure.  You don't have to start the cross bracing at the bottom of the legs.  The 2x3 lumber is so rigid that that is not necessary.

Once again:  Use 3/4 inch (or 5/8 inch) exterior grade (not salt treated) AC plywood, available at all big box stores (it has green stripes on the side, and black APA stamp on the back which says Exterior Grade.)  Lay it flat immediately and weight it down all around to let it acclimate in the room,  If you don't weight it down it will warp and curl.  After three days of acclimating, cut it to the exact size you need, and prime both sides with Kilz II primer.   Then lay it on the framing and screw it down.  It will never warp and you can walk on it!  Paint the top with a finish coat of good acrylic paint.  A sheet should cost you somewhere between $50 and $75.  I haven'' checked prices this week.  I am sure that Baltic Birch is a wonderful product, but super expensive and unnecessary.  And Never use CDX plywood!!!

I don't understand why folks insist on a cabinet grade layout top, when all you are going to do is glue grass and scenery all over the top of it.   The slight waivey grain showing on top of AC plywood looks more realistic as ground cover than a super flat shiny top anyway.

No doubt, others will vehemently disagree with the foregoing, and recommend OSB because it is a whole $40 cheaper (who cares?).  It is not made to withstand much moisture and will swell, flake and turn into cardboard mush if it gets surface water on it.

Mannyrock

Re: "Lay it flat immediately and weight it down all around to let it acclimate in the room,  If you don't weight it down it will warp and curl. "  Sad but true for the junk pine ply that gets flogged at the big box stores.  It's the reason to spend a bit more for hardwood ply.

Well Folks, if laying a sheet of plywood flat for 3 days, and priming both sides of it is just too hard or complicated for you to handle, then by all means, buy the hardwood ply!  :-)

@Mannyrock posted:

No doubt, others will vehemently disagree with the foregoing, and recommend OSB because it is a whole $40 cheaper (who cares?).  It is not made to withstand much moisture and will swell, flake and turn into cardboard mush if it gets surface water on it.

If you've got standing water on your layout than you got bigger issues than crumbly OSB on your hands, just saying.

As an aside, a "whole $40" might not seem like a lot of money to some but IT IS , couple this with buying multiple sheets and it can get real expensive real fast. If there was truly a big for real problem with cheaper plywoods or particle board or OSB there would be hundreds of folks chiming in against its use and not just the handful we see. I'd be willing to wager that most of us who go the "cheap" route are perfectly happy with and have no issues with our layouts.

I don't see the reason to complicate things for the newbies here or worse terrorize them with urban legends about how the layout will warp, crumble and fall apart if you look at it crooked if not built to these particular standards. I don't ever recall seeing anyone do an exhaustive test of various materials and techniques and posting the results for us it's all been at best anecdotal (including mine) but still don't see too many having these issues.

The last layout I built used pine, OSB,1/4" lauan, 1x2 furring strips, 2x3s and 2x4s, drywall screws (yes even these have their detractors in here) for major structural components and not only could you park a tank on it when I took it down  I had to destroy it to take it apart and the base unit of it 3/4" OSB top 2x4 framing and all is still in the basement and shows no signs of warping, sagging or crumbling and my basement has flooded twice 6" and 2" respectively. In fact the only damage it has sustained over the last 2 years is my cats sharpen their claws on the Homasote that is glued to it.

I thought this was supposed to be fun, we're playing with toy trains for crying out loud not making windows for the space shuttle, stop making people think they have to over think, over engineer and over spend to do this.

I think the Whiskey Tribe motto applies here:

The best whiskey to drink is the one you like, the best way to drink it is how you like to.

Jerry

One of the variables with OSB is the amount of glue used in it's manufacture.    Check for flakes around the racks where it is stored.  If you see flakes on the floor move on to another store brand.

I learned of this after hauling six 3/4" 4 X 8  sheets up a pull down attic stairway for a storage floor while noticing not splinters in my gloves but rather flakes simply popping off in my hand.

The panel was so weak that it could be punctured by only kicking it.

That is when I took time to go back to the store and take notice of the flakes around the Lowe's storage / display racks.

Absolutely not Lowe's fault, it is a decent store.  Just a bad batch for which they refunded.

A manufacture's variable that could turn up anywhere.

some lowes have 1/2" maple for $59 a sheet. only one side is smooth other side has blemishes

I think everyone has their own idea how to build a layout, and people also have had a variety of experiences with wood they have bought.  I have read accounts of people who have built layouts that could probably hold up a chevy suburban and wondered about it, but if that makes them feel happy with it, knowing it is that well built, awesome.

OSB and particle board can work as a layout top I have no doubt. A lot of the strength is in the base of the layout, and there a lot of it is how it is put together IME. My problem with OSB and Particle board is the quality of it is all over the place; I too have seen the crap flaking off, boards that looked like you could punch through it, and I have had better experience with plywood. That said, if you find OSB or particle board that you feel is affordable, and you follow good building practice, it will work fine. Using 3/4" ply and 2x4's is prob more forgiving of construction flaws, but that doesn't mean it is hard to build with 1/2" plywood or whatnot and using 1x3 or 1x4 for frame.

One thing I agree with, with any wood you buy, let it sit in the environment you are using it in for several days. There is a vlog my wife and I watch, and it is set in an old French chateau. The woman who does the vlog has a cousin living there who is a master wood crafter (I won't use the term carpenter, he is well beyond that). He is reconstructing old oak panelling for this one room and has to fabricate new pieces, and he said that with wood it needs time to adjust to the place you are using it. He also said by waiting, he can see if any of it was unusable or needed further work like planing.

I used 3/4 plywood for my Standard Gauge layout at my prior house.  Very heavy and overkill.  I never had a reason to climb on the top of my layout.

Framing and securing it together is most important in my opinion, build it strong enough the first time, you don't want to have to redo it! I built my "L" shaped layout in 2 sections and screwed them together, a 8' x 45" section ( yes, 45 is not a number mistake, it's because of the door into the room only allowed me that much room for clearance ) and a 4' x 6' section to make the "L". The room is "L" shaped also so this gave me the most room for my layout. I used 2x4's for box framing with 2' on center cross framing on both sections and 2x4 for 8 legs with casters ( 4 locking across in front, and back 4 non locking ) mounted so it can be rolled to access all sides of it as it usually sits against right side ( with door in front of layout ) and back walls in room.  Small former bedroom but only room I had available to use. Used 2 sheets cut to layout size 19/32 sanded plywood and bead of silicone between top of 2x4 and bottom of plywood at all contact points, then screwed the plywood to the 2x4 every foot. Built it almost a year ago and so far no issues. Rolls easily when needed to access back and right side of layout and sturdy. They must had messed up on pricing as 2x4 were cheaper than both 2x2 and 2x3. Their loss, not mine!😆

@baltimoretrainworks posted:

If you've got standing water on your layout than you got bigger issues than crumbly OSB on your hands, just saying.

As an aside, a "whole $40" might not seem like a lot of money to some but IT IS , couple this with buying multiple sheets and it can get real expensive real fast. If there was truly a big for real problem with cheaper plywoods or particle board or OSB there would be hundreds of folks chiming in against its use and not just the handful we see. I'd be willing to wager that most of us who go the "cheap" route are perfectly happy with and have no issues with our layouts.

I don't see the reason to complicate things for the newbies here or worse terrorize them with urban legends about how the layout will warp, crumble and fall apart if you look at it crooked if not built to these particular standards. I don't ever recall seeing anyone do an exhaustive test of various materials and techniques and posting the results for us it's all been at best anecdotal (including mine) but still don't see too many having these issues.

The last layout I built used pine, OSB,1/4" lauan, 1x2 furring strips, 2x3s and 2x4s, drywall screws (yes even these have their detractors in here) for major structural components and not only could you park a tank on it when I took it down  I had to destroy it to take it apart and the base unit of it 3/4" OSB top 2x4 framing and all is still in the basement and shows no signs of warping, sagging or crumbling and my basement has flooded twice 6" and 2" respectively. In fact the only damage it has sustained over the last 2 years is my cats sharpen their claws on the Homasote that is glued to it.

I thought this was supposed to be fun, we're playing with toy trains for crying out loud not making windows for the space shuttle, stop making people think they have to over think, over engineer and over spend to do this.

I think the Whiskey Tribe motto applies here:

The best whiskey to drink is the one you like, the best way to drink it is how you like to.

Jerry

What he said.

FWIW, here is a layout-building video that I stumbled across.  The guy does a lot of things that many of us (myself included) would criticize, but the point is that it was done economically and it works for him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpY7K8uLVZI

With the price of wood these days, I have been finding "used" plywood... from relatives old Christmas layouts as well as anything else that is not being used.  It's not the ideal situation to use this plywood, but it did help me come up with a new name for my railroad... I'm calling it the "Scrapwood Railroad".