Repair Needed for On-Line Purchase - Who Should Fix?

That is the same situation as my late favorite repair guy when I was in NY.  In his 50s, he had repaired trains starting for a hobby shop since a teenager.  He tried for a long time to interest Lionel in signing him up, but he died before ever hearing from them. 

Unless something has changed in the rules of Lionel warranty repair, a dated receipt from an authorized Lionel dealer must be provided as part of the repair authorization.

While we (Lionel authorized LHS) will certainly do warranty repair work on items purchased properly from elsewhere, including on-line sales, we find the biggest problem is having the customer produce the required receipt.

When we sell Lionel products, we are mindful to tell the customers to retain their store receipt for the year in case warranty work is required.  On-line sellers, however, may not be so forthcoming at the time of the transaction, resulting in either NO valid receipt (must specify the Lionel item and show the store's identity) being provided in the first place, or the buyer simply throwing the receipt away, not knowing of it's first-year's importance.

So it goes in the trenches....

KD

When we were a Lionel Service Station, we repaired everything brought to us. Regardless, if it was purchased from us. I found that by taking care of people that hadn't purchased from us soon became our customers.

I bought my first train from Jim's Trains just before you retired.

A couple of other facts to consider...

Many folks expect PAID  train repair work to be done cheaply. As my LHS owner friends once complained to me, getting your auto repaired at an authorized car dealer shop costs plenty and folks expect to pay dearly for that quality work. But when they take their model loco in for work to the LHS,  they want repairs done dirt cheap. So, as he put it, "is the level of knowledge and expertise of a train repairman less than an auto mechanic or an appliance repair person? Why should train repair guys get paid a fraction of what other repair people make?"

Here's another one that drives LHS dealers crazy: with the non-stop increasing complexity  of model trains today, some items must be returned to the factory for service. So when a person brings a broken loco in to the LHS and the LHS tech looks it over and see he can't fix it, it will have to be sent to the factory repair center. You know who pays for that shipping? Yep, the LHS owner most of the time. If the buyer purchased the item from the LHS, the owner can at least grit his teeth and cover the shipping cost, but what about if the guy bought the item somewhere else? What's fair then?  Once again, I have seen this scenario unfold. The manufacturer isn't going to pay for the in-bound shipping.

I think the bottom line is when you pay as much for a toy you expect it to work right out of the box and continue working as long as it's not abused.  Nothing worse then spending over a thousand dollars on something and it breaks before the warranty runs out.  Buying from the internet should be no different than buying a new car.  I live in Maryland and if my warranty is still in force and I'm in Florida I expect the local dealer to fix my car.

Dave, while I agree train shops should get paid a decent amount for repairs, I do not agree that train repairs should be as expensive as auto repair. Trains cost on average 500.00+ and cars are 30 to 40 thousand. I know of at least one shop that gets 100.00 just to set a train on the repair bench. Car repair is 80.00 to 100.00 an hour. Should a 100.00 train engine cost 100.00 plus parts to clean and overhaul? I just don't see it.

Rob

quote:

 So, as he put it, "is the level of knowledge and expertise of a train repairman less than an auto mechanic or an appliance repair person? Why should train repair guys get paid a fraction of what other repair people make

I know two top notch auto/truck mechanics.

One went to a two year college for car/truck/engine repair.

The other was working on his GM Master Tech certification until he switched careers. I lost count of the number of classes he had to take to get his certification, which included tests. Once certified, he would have been required to continue taking classes and tests to maintain his certification.

Then there are the tools. In most shops, mechanics have to purchase their own tools. The shops provide big stuff, like alignment racks and lifts. Maybe some other specialty tools, the rest comes out of the mechanic's pockets.

Then there is the overhead of the garage and maintenance on those racks and lifts.

Finally, its doubtful anybody has been severely injured or worse as the result of a poorly done train repair. Can you say the same about cars or trucks?

I have a split opinion.

On the one hand if I was behind the counter:

$75 handling charge on warranty engines if not purchased here.

$40 handling charge on warranty of other items if purchased elsewhere.

Plus shipping costs for parts etc to all regardless of where purchased.

This seems to work for water heaters - why not toy trains?

Then on the other hand, a solution to the above handling charges:

Don't buy any toy train you can't fix yourself.

Few use ink anymore last I knew.

  I think the "blank out" ones are electrostatic carbon printing that loses its ability to keep pigment in place.

 The receipts like from fast food, that turn all black/purple on your dashboard? They are from heat printing, on chemically treated paper.

One of those "things" we let happen, after someone convinced us the "NEW' way was "better"( maybe for "them").

Disappearing receipt ink would have landed you in jail at one time, I'm sure.

Lots of good applications for non ink methods. I don't think I need my burger receipt that bad. But permanent records? Not so hot.

I don't think I've ever received a non-ink receipt from the government anywhere.(wow a smiley for the govt!)

  If it is warrantied for more than a year, and at all expensive. I ask for a hand written copy, in ink, from the manager, not a clerk, to accompany it.

  Reactions by management to this vary, even at corporate level, and so does were I spend my dollar.

All I'm asking for is a receipt so a judge wont laugh at me for presenting it, or accepting it.

 Not that I've used it, but I know others that have...

Another advantage to local purchases for a consumer, is the access to local small claims court.

 If I own it, I likely have the paperwork on the bookshelves.

   Receipts belonging with discarded packages, and/or manual-less items, go in a wood box on the dresser for a few years.

I usually like to staple receipts inside a manuals first page. 

 Or, its in the box the item came in? (Seeing how on many companies warranties, you have to have the carton, just to ship it in for repair, or it may not be accepted).

 You might even dkdkrd's route further, and offer to do the staple deed at the counter for them if its been opened.

A 30g machine shouldn't need repair, where I foot the bill. Not for a long time anyhow. 

The price of an item worked on, isn't the greatest thing to base a rate of pay on.

 And when the cost of any repair nears what it cost for a new item, its time to consider the new one.

  I don't think I've been to any kind of dealer that paid more per hour determined by original price of the item. Only the complexity of the job at hand. Which should determine pay despite vocation, considering the similar aptitude necessary in both fields.

 With one exception.

Brake mechanics should make the most out of anybody.(& be held to the highest standards)

Think about why that job might be the most important to pay well for. 

Ok, now add dealing with toxic brake dust, cleaning chemicals, and brake fluid.

Originally posted by Jim Sutter:

 When we were a Lionel Service Station, we repaired everything brought to us. Regardless, if it was purchased from us. I found that by taking care of people that hadn't purchased from us soon became our customers.

But Jim, you are friendly, and have some old school business sense!

With good in shop attitude comes "good vibe"

With good vibe, people buy $6 cups of coffee too 

Water heaters aren't toy trains in the same way that apples are not oranges.  I am guessing that Lionel and MTH don't buy into that kind of customer gouging.  But if it's your store, then your rules.  How long have you been in business?  Also, it is likely that only a few on this forum can fix the modern toy trains sold in the past 20 or so years.

I would love to have an LHS where I can buy and take things if I needed repair.

However, I don't.  Not within just over 200 miles.   Online purchasing is my LHS.

So, while I agree that a local Lionel repair center is a good 1st choice, once you start moving west of the Mississippi, your true LHS's become few and far between.

Oh sure, there's a HobbyTown USA near me.  They night have a few pieces of Fastrack ins stock and maybe a loco and a couple cars.   Sure, they'll order anything you want at full list.  ...anyway that's another topic.  For now, if in the rare case I need repair, I will simply call Lionel for direction.

quote:

Brake mechanics should make the most out of anybody.(& be held to the highest standards)

LOL, I understand the sentiment, but what about steering and suspension? One time my wife's car came back from dealer service without the nut that held the front wheel asssembly to the ball joint secured. The car's front end had a slight knock. Good thing my mechanic friend saw it before something happened.
Plus, whether they advertise it as a feature, or not, many things are "drive by wire" now. No more mechanical linkages for many things. Remember "sudden acceleration"?
Many braking systems have electronic components too - anti-lock / anti-skid and so forth.

 I did some work next to one dealership before where about two-three times a year a car would pull out with only one lug nut, and snap near our driveway. 

And as far as drive by wire goes?

I'm with the majority of electronic associations that say "one computer is not enough to apply it safely"

 Auto companies just do what makes more money, ignoring the industry it draws much of its tech from.

 Airplanes have at least three.

My first accident ever was when antilock brakes failed to stop a car in time. If it had been a solid skid, I doubt it would have hit the vette I was driving.

The first thing I do when anti-locks begin to pulse is raise my foot to pump the brakes. That old reaction isn't going to change for me.

In fact I tend to at least double pump each time I begin braking.

I worked as a mechanic for a while this century. The quality did not impress me.   

I'll just keep buying old till its illegal. (if I'm able drive enough to bother owning one again)

The quality has been going downhill for a LONG time in the automotive industry.

I bought my first "custom ordered car", a 1969 Grand Prix, it was a black beauty with a mile long hood.  It developed a bad shake in the driveshaft after a couple of weeks, and when I looked, a nut on one of the U-Joints was missing.  I took it back to the dealer for repair.  All seemed well until I left for work the next day, I heard a loud clank as I stopped outside my apartment, and the driveshaft rolled out from under the car!  The monkeys at the dealership had overtightened the replacement and the U-clamp broke, and the U-joint dropped clean away.  The drive shaft pulled out of the transmission and was free to leave the car, which it promptly did!

This thread seems to have gotten off track and I may have missed this suggestion.

It sounds to me like rug fuzz stuck in the pinion gear. Is that possible?

Thanks Rail Reading

I've kind of gotten bored with all the extraneous yacking going on, but this suggestion as well as the earlier one about making sure the connection between the engine and tender is solid I will definitely examine this weekend.

There's no carpeting in the basement so I doubt it's fuzz but I will take as close a look at the gearing as I can without removing the shell to see if there is/was anything stuck in there. I also plan to run the engine for a couple of hours straight to check out my repair station's idea that heat might have caused a solder joint on the main board to expand.

We'll see.

You may wish to look for a grain of sand, or even plastic flash, in the gears too.

Check the wires that attach to the collectors(pick-up roller)on the engine and tender. it's hard to see, but one of those wires becoming loose can cause an intermittent problem like this. Then it will eventually short and let the smoke out of something in the tender or engine.

You could have had an RA from Lionel and shipped the engine and received a confirmation receipt by now. It's new. You shouldn't have any issues. Send it in. $10-$15 shipping is cheap insurance.

Just to close the loop on this, I feel like the boy who cried wolf. I ran my LC+ for over 2 hours straight today and the thing ran absolutely perfectly without a hiccup. I inspected what gears I could without removing the shell and everything looked clean. I checked the rollers too but I suspect, as someone suggested, the the connection between the engine and tender may not have been perfectly tight because when I put them back on the track and reconnected them I definitely felt it click. What fooled me is all crew-talk and the steam engine idle sounds were working as well as the whistle and bell.  I thought if the engine/tender connection wasn't in positive contact, those wouldn't work.  Well, it's working so to quote Roseanne Rosannadanna, "Never Mind".

The good that came out of all this is I discovered I have a lot of choices for warranty repair without having to ship something back to Lionel because there are several authorized service stations (not just drop-offs) conveniently located to me. One in particular I spoke with in person said he wouldn't mind at all doing warranty repairs on something I didn't buy in his store. Hopefully I won't need need him but this is a retailer who definitely knows how to attract and keep customers.