Fluted/ribbed or Smooth?

It depends on the time period, which railroad and/or particular passenger train I am modelling, i.e. Southern Pacific Daylight trains.

 I believe the correct term is fluted.

Well with some SP cars, they has BOTH on the same car.  Some PS cars came ribbed/fluted.  But due to a chemical mismatch, the flutes came off, and SP put smooth sides on them!

Can't beat good ol' Budd stainless steel:

Rusty

But did not Budd make some smooth cars, though.

But a train looks best with either all ribbed/fluted or smooth!

Perhaps the ribbed work better on traditional sized cars but I don't really notice the difference with my heavy weight, scale sized cars?

JGL

Mr. Galt using heavyweight cars on the new train in ATLAS SURGED?  Interesting!

Dominic Mazoch posted:

But did not Budd make some smooth cars, though.

 

Yes they did:

Rusty

I'd go with ribbed/fluted....actually fluted is the correct term. It's anyones' taste...but you asked!

I prefer what ever the prototype had during the era that I model. That is why the Sunset/3rd Rail/Golden Gate Depot Southern Pacific Daylight train set is so very, very nice, since it depicts the post 1946 "name change" and yet still is pro typical for the late steam ear as well as the early diesel era, i.e. fluted equipment. 

"Atlas Surged"...is that the little-known sequel? 

Both, it depends on the car.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Mr. Galt using heavyweight cars on the new train in ATLAS SURGED?  Interesting!

I'll add that Mr. Galt didn't use any type of cars.  Thay would have been Miss Taggart's decision, and don't remember for sure, but seem to recall the original John Galt Line using "modern" steel cars... though that was modern in a 1950's near future setting.  I would guess they would have looked like early amtrack cars if they had ever actually came to exist.   As for the main operation of Taggart Transcontinental, it is a wonderful railroad to "model" as all varities of rolling stock and motive power from old west 4-4-0's to early diesels all fit in just fine.  

In seriousness, I like the k-line heavyweights the best of any pass cars I own, and find the smooth sides preferable to the ribbed on many of the williams cars I have.  

JGL

Fluted sides for me on all my streamlined lightweight cars.

The decision as to whether cars were smooth or "fluted" (I always heard them referred to as "corrugated") depended originally on the manufacturer.  Budd's shot-weld system used a patented technique to assemble and weld stainless steel.  The material itself was inherently strong requiring less framing than non-stainless cars.  The sides themselves were structural members.  Fluting or corrugating the panels helped to strengthen them.  The resulting product was not only strong but very attractive and did not need painting.

Railroads and passengers liked the look of the new and shiny stainless steel trains.  In order to compete, other builders like Pullman continued to build smooth sided cars out of framed corten steel (and other materials) which was then painted.  To create the look of Budd equipment, some builders applied stainless corrugated sheeting on top of otherwise smooth car bodies.

As equipment began to age, non-stainless cars began to deteriorate.  Often the applied stainless panels were removed when the cars were repaired and painted.  The panels were discarded.  When Amtrak inherited what was left of the railroad passenger car fleet, evidence of deterioration became much clearer.  The result was that the majority of cars actually used by Amtrak were stainless steel Budd products.

To this day, 1948 Budd built dining cars are soldiering on until the new CAF cars are delivered to Amtrak.

On the other hand, as some have pointed out, Budd also delivered some "smooth-sided" cars.  Look closely at the photos, and you can see that the "smooth" painted panels were applied on top of the stainless steel corrugated sides!  Budd also occasionally painted stainless corrugated cars to meet the specifcations of owning railroads.  The Union Pacific, for example, owned a large fleet of yellow painted Budd sleepers.

Joe S

And my guess is the Budds will have a longer life out of the road than the new Viewliners.  Hope Amtrak's cars will have the wheels trying to fall off the axles as Houston METRO's CAF LRT's are trying to do.

I think the sides issue also depends on what livery was used on the cars.  Flutted looks OK on the ATSF and the Q, but not, say on the GN or NP.  (Odd, but the Q, the GN and NP were part of the Hill lines.  But the Q did supply smooth cars for both the GN and NP.)

Or fluted looks good on the EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS of the NYC, but not on the gray painted cars of the CENTURY.

I like them all.

The "smooth side" Budd cars were not really smooth, and definitely not a flat plate applied over standard Budd flutes.  They had maybe four ribs, or overlaps.

My question: how do we know the correct term is "flute" and not corrugation or rib?  Did Budd and Pullman/ACF specify them that way?

Well, if we had a quested about the fluted, maybe we should ask:  Is "smooth side", OFFICAL

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Well, if we had a quested about the fluted, maybe we should ask:  Is "smooth side", OFFICAL

Why worry about it? 

Ya gotta call them sumpthin'.

What about all those smooth sided cars with rivets sticking out, do we call them "bumpies?"

And "American Flyer" coach was not the "official" designation by Pullman...  The closest "official" designation was Osgood-Bradley, named from the plant location where they were constructed.

Rusty

I wish they made smooth side in the Rail King line v. The bottom half fluted and the top half smooth.

" Some PS cars came ribbed/fluted.  But due to a chemical mismatch, the flutes came off,"

Huh?

fluted-ribbed-corrugated?  Eenie-meenie-miney-mo..... What did the prototype do, with the train you are modeling?  And I will bet that those railroads that had the choice, intermixed cars with the various sides if they needed them for a consist.

I don't care, but my wife prefers ribbed... 

Jon  

If Lionel made the 15" AL cars in the 1950's, even as a variation, smooth, L might have made the passenger trains with color:  B&O, C&O, SP, Hill Lines running west of MSP, Two Tone Grey.....

But they did not make colorful cars in the 2400's after the UP sets, and the green cars.  Those were made with plastic.  They had a chance with the 2400 passenger cars with the 2245 TEXAS SPECIAL.

Rusty Traque posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Well, if we had a quested about the fluted, maybe we should ask:  Is "smooth side", OFFICAL

Why worry about it? 

Ya gotta call them sumpthin'.

What about all those smooth sided cars with rivets sticking out, do we call them "bumpies?"

And "American Flyer" coach was not the "official" designation by Pullman...  The closest "official" designation was Osgood-Bradley, named from the plant location where they were constructed.

Rusty

Porcupines?   I think the AL roofs on some of the ACF cars looked like that!

I am not worried about it, but Elliot stated in no uncertain terms that "fluted" is correct.  I was just hoping to learn how he determined that.  I use fluted, ribbed, coorugated, and smooth as descriptive terms, and would be happy to change if there is some reason to.

I believe the correct term is fluted.

Elliot

I believe MTH uses the terms "Ribbed" and "Smooth", so those are the ones I went with at first.

Rusty Traque posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

But did not Budd make some smooth cars, though.

 

Yes they did:

Rusty

The B&W EAGLE pictures looks as if it was taken at the old I-GN Station in San Antonio TX.  It is now owned by VIA Transit (nothing to do with the passenger service in Canada)  with a goal of making it a transit center.