Seemingly random no power on a PE locomotive.

Update: When I run the PE in one particular direction, this doesn't happen, but when I run it the opposite direction (not in reverse, just in the opposite forward direction) this doesn't happen. I realized I have a 3 port p-n-p accessory in the opposite direction of the connected LC connected power track, but I don't think that should matter, plus I have another LC power track connected, but un-powered (this is just in case I need more track power, by connecting another wall adapter to the track.) Not sure if this is relevant, but I just wanted to add that in.

I spoke to soon, it's happening in the opposite direction too, but instead of just stopping, it pauses for less then a second and jumps right back to the speed it was traveling at. Here is a photo of it stopped on the switch when in reverse too.

Update 2: I scrubbed and scrubbed with 90% Alcohol, and ran the engine by itself at max speed, no issues. I slowed it to a crawl around the switches, and it dies just after half the engine completes the pass-through,  on any switch. Scrub more and more, and now it looks like its working again perfectly. I didn't see any carbon buildup, like on the track, just wheel wear and where the flange looks worn and is showing copper now, but that seemed to do it. Quick question for anyone who owns PE, is there anyway to freewheel the wheels? It's kinda a PITA to put on the track, move a bit, take off, clean, wait for dry + repeat, takes like 10-15 or more times of doing this to get the entire wheel circumference area clean. I know with powered rolling stock, you can use a spare fast track and use alcohol soaked paper towels to hand run it over, but these wheels on the PE won't move when not powered.

what kind of remotes are you running.  or are you just running a transformer direct to track power?

Hi Ken, I'm using the 72 watt LionChief plus AC to DC PS to the FastTrack power track, along with two LC locomotives (LC PE and LC+ lackawanna) + an MTH locomotive once I get the DCS Commander control for it; I plan to passively wire that to my FastTrack.

Also, I was browsing some youtube videos by Fifer Hobby Supply a month back [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZuJ-4VoI4k ] and he mentioned mentioned for maintaining locomotive performance, to make sure you have your locomotive+consist circle in reverse direction for even truck wear + go in reverse for a little bit of time for more even brush wear, and gun it once it awhile (but I noticed since doing the reverse for 10-15 minute maintenance stretches, it makes my track filthier MUCH faster, with large carbon spotting, almost like chunks sometimes) and I'm wondering if that made the wheels dirtier faster. Anyways, I barely used the PE since I bought, and just this year I'm really getting into it, so I didn't have much run time on the locomotive, and barely, if ever, ran it in reverse.

Gigabyte posted:

Quick question for anyone who owns PE, is there anyway to freewheel the wheels? It's kinda a PITA to put on the track, move a bit, take off, clean, wait for dry + repeat, takes like 10-15 or more times of doing this to get the entire wheel circumference area clean...

The angle of the motor worm prevents backwheeling. Run it upside down in a foam cradle or a cradle made of wood with a carpeted liner. Use alligator clips to the rollers and the chassis.

While doing this, check both rollers for continuity to the LC board - your issue with switches make me suspect of a problem there.

Hi Rob,

Thanks again for your help -- good idea, thank you on that.

Also, it's happening again, whether at the facing point or the trailing point, the train just stops dead, pushing it along get its powered again. Please note, that's only happening on the PE, the LC+ Lackawanna runs fine along all the track and switches.

Here's a demo video showing in reverse when it stops:

Gigabyte posted:

...Also, it's happening again, whether at the facing point or the trailing point, the train just stops dead, pushing it along get its powered again. Please note, that's only happening on the PE, the LC+ Lackawanna runs fine along all the track and switches.

That reinforces the notion that you have a pickup/roller connection/continuity issue, not a track issue.

ADCX Rob posted:

Gigabyte posted:

...Also, it's happening again, whether at the facing point or the trailing point, the train just stops dead, pushing it along get its powered again. Please note, that's only happening on the PE, the LC+ Lackawanna runs fine along all the track and switches.

That reinforces the notion that you have a pickup/roller connection/continuity issue, not a track issue.

Rob, thanks on that. When I was cleaning the wheels and the roller, I noticed one of the rollers was really stiff to turn. I did use Labelle 107 on the sides since the beginning  of using it back in 2013, but aside from that, is there something I could do about that/check for, or should I order the entire assembly part for the roller (rather than filing the pin out and putting a new in from what I read?) I assume that roller picks up the DC + from the middle rail and sends that electrical flow to the motor and the DC - through the outside rails? But quick question, since it has two rollers, I assume for a situation where if one roller is not making contact, and the other is, the one in contact should still get power to the motor, so on a switch, if you have one good and one bad and the bad is in contact, but the good is not, you don't have load on the circuit then, and no electrical flow from DC + pickup to DC - outside rail?

Also, sorry, I'm in process of learning everything I can about electronics and Model Trains, so please forgive my ignorance! Could you let me know what a motor worm is on a closed brushed DC can motor is?

The top worm gear here is the DC motor of the loco, the bottom worm wheel is the axle.

You can see that the worm can turn the wheel, but the wheel cannot turn the worm(motor) because of the shallow angle of the cut. It is "locked" as you have discovered. If you have never disassembled your PE for lube, it is overdue. Some of these were never lubed properly from the factory, and should be done with Lucas Red 'N' Tacky #2.

Gigabyte posted:

Rob, thanks on that. When I was cleaning the wheels and the roller, I noticed one of the rollers was really stiff to turn. I did use Labelle 107 on the sides since the beginning  of using it back in 2013, but aside from that, is there something I could do about that/check for, or should I order the entire assembly part for the roller (rather than filing the pin out and putting a new in from what I read?)

The oil may be part of the problem - being non-conductive and attracting dirt & grime. What you want to do is clean that roller & pin well with contact cleaner like CRC-QD and get it spinning well. I use a wire wheel in a bench grinder to spin the roller while spraying out the pin area... a Dremel tool will work too. Keep the rollers & pins dry. clean, & free of oil and they will serve well.

Gigabyte posted:

I assume that roller picks up the DC + from the middle rail and sends that electrical flow to the motor and the DC - through the outside rails? But quick question, since it has two rollers, I assume for a situation where if one roller is not making contact, and the other is, the one in contact should still get power to the motor, so on a switch, if you have one good and one bad and the bad is in contact, but the good is not, you don't have load on the circuit then, and no electrical flow from DC + pickup to DC - outside rail?

 

 That is what I suspect. The good roller on the switch, bad one on the rail... the two are are wired in parallel and electrically are the same. If one is malfunctioning, you lose the redundancy.

Keep in mind that polarity doesn't matter here - LC & LC+ both run on AC or DC. The circuit as you describe - outside rails to the chassis and ground of the loco electronics, center rail to complete the circuit to the "hot" side of the engine circuitry.

ADCX Rob posted:

The top worm gear here is the DC motor of the loco, the bottom worm wheel is the axle.

You can see that the worm can turn the wheel, but the wheel cannot turn the worm(motor) because of the shallow angle of the cut. It is "locked" as you have discovered. If you have never disassembled your PE for lube, it is overdue. Some of these were never lubed properly from the factory, and should be done with Lucas Red 'N' Tacky #2.

Rob, thanks again, that helped a lot.

I did some more cleaning, and it looks like it's working now, strange, as I really didn't clean anything that could be "seen" like dust/lint, etc...just more carbon. Also, I tried to disassemble the Silver Bells locomotive set to see how everything works, and it was a real challenge putting everything back in and having everything align just right; it's still a few pieces as I couldn't get it aligned just right, its like everything just fell out and wouldn't go back in just right aligning to all the screw holes; after after 20 minutes of gentle nudges here and there, I tried to force it (bad move) and a black tab snapped out, I think that black tab was the part to trigger the smoke unit on each rotation...ugh

Thanks, I want to, but I'm a little trepidatious on doing so after the Silver Bells fiasco, but I do feel compelled to and will eventually! esp. after reading a post on here earlier that on a few units, some had one of two missing screws. But thanks on that, I will order the Lucas Red 'N' Tacky #2

ADCX Rob posted:

Gigabyte posted:

Rob, thanks on that. When I was cleaning the wheels and the roller, I noticed one of the rollers was really stiff to turn. I did use Labelle 107 on the sides since the beginning  of using it back in 2013, but aside from that, is there something I could do about that/check for, or should I order the entire assembly part for the roller (rather than filing the pin out and putting a new in from what I read?)

The oil may be part of the problem - being non-conductive and attracting dirt & grime. What you want to do is clean that roller & pin well with contact cleaner like CRC-QD and get it spinning well. I use a wire wheel in a bench grinder to spin the roller while spraying out the pin area... a Dremel tool will work too. Keep the rollers & pins dry. clean, & free of oil and they will serve well.

Thanks on that, I think that really did the trick, as when I did that, it seems to be running fine again (although, I did put a very little amount of 107 between the holder/roller, but no where near as much as before.) But just in case, I will use the alcohol 90% again to remove as much oil from the roller as I can. I don't have those tools, but I'll try my best to clean it out.

ADCX Rob posted:

Gigabyte posted:

I assume that roller picks up the DC + from the middle rail and sends that electrical flow to the motor and the DC - through the outside rails? But quick question, since it has two rollers, I assume for a situation where if one roller is not making contact, and the other is, the one in contact should still get power to the motor, so on a switch, if you have one good and one bad and the bad is in contact, but the good is not, you don't have load on the circuit then, and no electrical flow from DC + pickup to DC - outside rail?

 

 That is what I suspect. The good roller on the switch, bad one on the rail... the two are are wired in parallel and electrically are the same. If one is malfunctioning, you lose the redundancy.

Keep in mind that polarity doesn't matter here - LC & LC+ both run on AC or DC. The circuit as you describe - outside rails to the chassis and ground of the loco electronics, center rail to complete the circuit to the "hot" side of the engine circuitry.

Rob, thank you, that really helped me figure out the electrical flow of the track/locomotive.

Rob, on a final note on this thread, thanks again for your help on this and on the previous question I had with the plastic wheel set I had on the MTH diesel, I greatly appreciate it. Again, I'm going to order the Lucas Red 'N' Tacky #2 and lubricate the gear, and be a lot more patient ( or just walk away for another day if I begin to lose it after 30 minutes ) and record the process so if I miss anything, it should be hopefully easier to re-assemble if any issues develop.

The PE can be lubed from the bottom very easily compared to the Silver Bells.

Rob, thanks! I found this on it, and you're right, it looks pretty straightforward: https://ogrforum.com/t...-polar-express-motor

Also, whenever you have a moment, I found Lucas Red-n-Tacky #2 on Amazon [ https://smile.amazon.com/Lucas...s+red+and+tacky+%232 ], but I'm concerning about QA on the product on the batch amazon got, as some people complained that its missing the thickening agent and it just drips, can you let me know where you got yours? Thanks!

I have bought it at NAPA and Amazon, WalMart has it too now.

Thanks! I'm going to pick it up from Advance Auto Parts (tub) and test it before applying it.

Hi Rob,

Just a quick update, I opened up the PE and all looked good, so I closed it back up. I then applied some Red and Tacky #2 to the side gears on my MTH RS-3 which already had Labelle #107 oil applied (should have cleaned that up first before applying the grease) and now when the diesel locomotive runs, it's dripping slightly down the wheel and also gumming up, like thick black globules. I didn't apply a lot, about 3 full toothpick heads of RNT. I tried to clean and clean, but it's a PITA on/off track to move the wheels slightly to get to the next section, then having it run moderately fast so it drips more and repeat cleaning. I remember you mentioned I can power up the locomotive via fast track using alligator clips to the locomotive in a cradle...my question is, can I connect one alligator clip to the center rail, then from the center rail, connect that to one of the pickup rollers (does it matter which out of the 4?.) Then, for return/ground, clip another alligator to the outer rail, and from that connection, connect to the frame.  But my question is, where on the frame? I know the shell is plastic, and the underside is metal, can I just place the wire directly on the under body with electrical tape? I'm really sorry on the novice question, I just don't want to damage the locomotive, so any help on where would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again!

Attached are the photos of the locomotive I want to clean the side wheel gears.