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Shielding a potential ground plane trouble-spot

SgaugianSgaugianOGR Forum Member
I may have a trouble spot on my layout just above where 9 transformers are on four shelves below the layout and a run of some 25 wires run above those parallel to a straight section of track atop the layout. I have never had any problem with running conventional, TMCC, or Legacy engines on this particular straight away section of track either from a standstill or when passing through it, but recently in having tried some 4-5 new Legacy AF engines out from a dead stop on that section they have not performed all that well until they've moved away from it and circled around, or I picked them up and started them off on another part of that loop or another loop. Could it be more recently manufactured engines are more sensitive to something? Could it be with all of those transformers and runs of wire below that straightaway that it is getting adversely affected in some way these engines respond to? Thanks. How might I shield the tracks from below -- if that would help.
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Jim DJim DOGR Forum Member
Dale, I like to go with the ground plane wire on a telephone pole above. That works every time, but we had a trouble spot on the club layout near a control panel with a lot of wires coming out, copper foil between the track and the wire did the trick. I have found that there are many ways to set up a ground plane. Some work better than others. It depends where the problem is coming from.
Jim D.
SgaugianSgaugianOGR Forum Member
Thanks. It helps to know others have found recent engines behave differently. I can start any of my earlier TMCC AF engines and AF Legacy Big Boy from a standstill there, but the most recent Challengers and U33Cs are finicky on that section when starting up (but they run through it OK). Would it suffice to run a wire under the roadbed of the tracks in that section (I use modular S-Trax)? Must the wire be uninsulated (bare copper) or is it OK if it has its insulation on? Connected to ground -- correct? I was also thinking of applying some aluminum duct tape to the under side of the layout just above the wires and running a wire from that to ground. How's that sound? Thanks again for your recommendations and help.
Dale ManquenDale ManquenOGR Forum Member MEMORIALIZED MEMBER
My usual suggestion is to try the simplest approach first. If it works completely, the problem is quickly solved. If there is improvement, but not a total solution, then something a bit fancier may be required.

The "telephone pole" solution is really placing the earth ground wire at an optimum location for the engine's antenna to receive that signal.

(Don't believe Lionel's false claim that the engine's antenna picks up the track signal! That is pure bunk! The antenna picks up the earth ground signal.)
Dale ManquenDale ManquenOGR Forum Member MEMORIALIZED MEMBER
The wire does not need to have insulation to work, but if your are running it anywhere that is near the track, it is a good idea to use an insulated wire. If the earth ground wire shorts to the track common, the TMCC/Legacy signal will in essence be shorted out.

If you use foil tape, add a layer of clear packing tape over the foil to protect and insulate it.

Connect the wire/tape to EARTH ground, not track common. If you have a volt/ohm meter, you should measure an open circuit between the rails and the earth ground wire.
S SantaFeFanOGR Forum Member
quote:
Originally posted by Sgaugian:
I can start any of my earlier TMCC AF engines and AF Legacy Big Boy from a standstill there, but the most recent Challengers and U33Cs are finicky on that section when starting up (but they run through it OK).

I have noticed this as well; but it seems related to only some of the locos. How do you have the TMCC signal linked to the track? One rail, or "split" to both?
SgaugianSgaugianOGR Forum Member
I use Legacy across 3 loops connected to the base rail. They share a common base. Each loop has it's own 30B and TPC 400. The 30Bs are in phase with one another. There's only one section on the second loop (Loop 2) where troubled start-ups have been exhibited by most recent AF engines. All of my other engines show no standing start issues there. Loops 1 and 2 are interconnected. Loop 3 is alone by itself.
Jim DJim DOGR Forum Member
Didn't try it. One member just got 2 new LIRR diesels. We had to put them on the track near the base just to get them into command mode. They ran 10' and stopped.He tried and tried to get them to move and finally took them off the layout and said "I hate Lionel" and put them away. I told him to use them at home. I plan to run the DD 35 at Trainstock. I'll leave the antennas in since it works so good. I'll take them out after Trainstock and let you know
Jim D.
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