Super-Chuffer II connections to TMCC DCDS boards

In truth, the older TMCC stuff is almost identical, you simply have to track down the connections.  Can you be specific as to the exact model you're installing in?

Let's take it from the top.

• Pins 1 & 2 - Track power and ground shouldn't be much of an issue.
• Pin 3 - Headlight output from TMCC (only used if you are using the Rule-17 LED headlight option)  Should be fairly easy to trace back to the MB, it's the lead going to the headlight.
• Pin 4 - Positive to LED headlight bulb, negative to frame ground.  Not used if you didn't opt for LED Rule-17 Lighting.
• Pin 5 - Chuff from chuff switch (or Chuff-Generator if so equipped), reference to frame ground.  The chuff switch lead will come to the motherboard as well.
• Pin 6 - Directly to smoke unit motor negative terminal.
• Pin 7 - Ground, typically used to connect Chuff-Generator or LED headlight negative lead.
• Pin 8 - Cab Light negative, for existing cab light positive goes to track power (center roller).
• Pin 9 - Hot lead of smoke unit heater (tells the Super-Chuffer when smoke is active).
• Pin 10 - +5VDC to smoke motor positive (and Chuff-Generator if so equipped).

You can email me with specific questions or post them here.  In case you didn't know, I'm the guy that designed these, so you should be in good hands.

Hi GUNRUNNERJOHN,

I was hoping you'd see my post and respond knowing that you are the designer of this product as well as our resident electrical engineer.

What I'm attempting to do is to upgrade the piston type smoke unit in my Lionel 6-28007, 4-6-4 Hudson to a fan powered unit. I was going to use a MTH AA-2100002 smoke unit to insure it fits within the boiler shell. I wanted to use one of your Super-Chuffer II boards to both control and power the smoke unit.

Most of what you've already explained makes sense and those wire leads should be easy to trace down. I was going to attach Pin 5 to the existing Cherry Switch in the locomotive.

Will Pin 4 support a 3mm, 3.2-3.4 volt, 20 MA white LED for a headlight without an inline resistor?

Is the 5 volt, D.C. power output from the Super-Chuffer II compatible with this smoke unit? Will I need to change the resistor value in this smoke unit to make it compatible with triacs on the R4LC board? (Board has been replaced from the original R2LC).

If room permits, I was considering soldering a 10 position wire to board terminal block to the board to ease the wire installation in the locomotive. Is this advisable and if so, what is the pitch or spacing of the Pin Out holes on the board?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

The motor is a standard 5V smoke motor, so that's no problem.  You will have to change the resistor, for a small unit like that, I'd probably consider a 22 ohm resistor so as to not overheat it.  Here's a suitable resistor: Yageo FKN2WSJT-73-22R , should be short enough to fit.

The headlight output is designed to support one white LED directly, pin 4 to positive, frame ground to negative.

I considered having the connector block standard, but the size difference really changes where the board will fit.  Many times there is very little space to cram it.  The spacing of the connector pads is .1", I just don't know if I left enough space behind it to allow the terminal block to seat.  The Green Euro style blocks don't even come close.  You could put a right angle socket on it as long as you have the additional space.

No real need to replace an R2LC with the R4LC, they have the same smoke triac, and nothing about the R2LC will affect the Super-Chuffer installation.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The motor is a standard 5V smoke motor, so that's no problem.  You will have to change the resistor, for a small unit like that, I'd probably consider a 22 ohm resistor so as to not overheat it.  Here's a suitable resistor: Yageo FKN2WSJT-73-22R , should be short enough to fit.

The headlight output is designed to support one white LED directly, pin 4 to positive, frame ground to negative.

I considered having the connector block standard, but the size difference really changes where the board will fit.  Many times there is very little space to cram it.  The spacing of the connector pads is .1", I just don't know if I left enough space behind it to allow the terminal block to seat.  The Green Euro style blocks don't even come close.  You could put a right angle socket on it as long as you have the additional space.

No real need to replace an R2LC with the R4LC, they have the same smoke triac, and nothing about the R2LC will affect the Super-Chuffer installation.

GUNRUNNERJOHN,

Thank you so much for your response to my questions. I do have another question. After reviewing the information I downloaded from Henning's, will I need to add the 470 OHM load resistor to the headlight input associated with Pin 3? If so, what is the recommended wattage for this resistor?

One more for you. If I understand your first response correctly, when connecting to the cherry switch for Pin 5, I would attach to the ground side of the switch and NOT the lead that goes to the motherboard, right?

Thanks in advance for your help.

There is no need for the 470 ohm resistor, I need to get them to update the document to the latest one.  That requirement was fixed several years ago with the previous version!

I must not have been clear, pin 5 goes to the active side of the chuff switch, the same signal as goes to the R2LC chuff input.

GUNRUNNERJOHN,

I couldn't be more appreciative! I believe I'm ready to begin.

I ordered the MTH smoke unit along with the associated brass funnel, the Super-Chuffer II PCB and the suggested resistors to modify the fan smoke unit. I'll keep you up to date on my progress. 

As I see it, the most difficult part of this project will be finding a way to mount the smoke unit, so a little engineering still needs to be done.

For many MTH installations, I solder a brass tube inside the MTH AA-0000102 brass cup and use that to extend up the stack.  I cut it off below the top, but it gives me a leak-proof stack to the smoke unit.

Also, when you open up the smoke unit, do it carefully as there is no source for the gaskets.  I use an X-acto knife to carefully lift the gasket off the smoke unit base just working around it until it's all free.  They tear easily and you'll have to fabricate one from gasket material, somewhat of a PITA.

I'll tell you one way that I use to mount smoke units in 3rd Rail brass.  I pick a suitable sized spring about 3/8" in diameter, and I JB-Weld it to the bottom of the smoke unit.  I make the spring long enough to hold the smoke unit in place with the shell on.  It's positioned right under the stack, and it solves the problem of hard mounting it.

For K-Line and some Lionel puffer replacements, I make myself a little fiberglass mounting plate.  The couple of times I've used the AA-2100002 smoke unit, I've used the spring trick.

FWIW, I always try to fit the biggest smoke unit I can in the shell, are you sure you can't stick the full size Lionel or MTH smoke unit in there?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

For many MTH installations, I solder a brass tube inside the MTH AA-0000102 brass cup and use that to extend up the stack.  I cut it off below the top, but it gives me a leak-proof stack to the smoke unit.

Also, when you open up the smoke unit, do it carefully as there is no source for the gaskets.  I use an X-acto knife to carefully lift the gasket off the smoke unit base just working around it until it's all free.  They tear easily and you'll have to fabricate one from gasket material, somewhat of a PITA.

I'll tell you one way that I use to mount smoke units in 3rd Rail brass.  I pick a suitable sized spring about 3/8" in diameter, and I JB-Weld it to the bottom of the smoke unit.  I make the spring long enough to hold the smoke unit in place with the shell on.  It's positioned right under the stack, and it solves the problem of hard mounting it.

For K-Line and some Lionel puffer replacements, I make myself a little fiberglass mounting plate.  The couple of times I've used the AA-2100002 smoke unit, I've used the spring trick.

FWIW, I always try to fit the biggest smoke unit I can in the shell, are you sure you can't stick the full size Lionel or MTH smoke unit in there?

Thank you again, so much, for sharing the installation tips with me as well as the precautious about the smoke unit gasket.  Just have to wait now for the various parts and pieces to show up in my mailbox. Once I have the unit and can determine the I.D. of the funnel piece, I'll pickup some brass tubing to extend the stack into the existing one as suggested.

The ID of the MTH AA-0000102 is 6.9mm, and if that's too large for the stack above, I just slide the smaller next size down into the other tube and reduce the diameter.  Use lots of flux and just solder the whole mess together.   I also sometimes enlarge the stack opening if possible to match the largest size brass tubing that I can, up to the 6.9mm diameter.

We look forward to your progress reports.

GUNRUNNERJOHN,

Sorry, but I do have another question for you. In your first response you stated that Pin 9 gets connected tied into the (+) lead for the smoke resistor power, which would be coming from RL4C PCB, but when I review the Board Connection Diagram provided as Figure 1 in the download from Henning's it shows Pin 9 as a +5 Volt DC output with the Cab light connected to it. Cab light (-) is shown as connected to Pin 8, so I'm a little confused. It would make perfect sense that the Super-Chuffer II and the heating element would need some way to communicate with each other.

If I'm reading the diagram correctly, the fan in the smoke unit is powered from the Super-Chuffer II PCB while the resistor or heating element within the smoke unit is powered (+) from RL4C board with ground going to the chassis. I'm I correct?

The diagram below illustrates the complete smoke resistor wiring path ( red lines).  The one side of the smoke resistor goes to frame ground (wheels).  The other side of the resistor goes both to the Super-Chuffer pin-9 and the Smoke Switch.  The smoke switch then continues on to the smoke output of the TMCC board, the same for a stock TMCC or the ERR boards.

The reason the smoke power goes to the Super-Chuffer is so I can determine when smoke is turned on in order to completely control the fan operation.  The Super-Chuffer does not power the smoke resistor.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The diagram below illustrates the complete smoke resistor wiring path ( red lines).  The one side of the smoke resistor goes to frame ground (wheels).  The other side of the resistor goes both to the Super-Chuffer pin-9 and the Smoke Switch.  The smoke switch then continues on to the smoke output of the TMCC board, the same for a stock TMCC or the ERR boards.

The reason the smoke power goes to the Super-Chuffer is so I can determine when smoke is turned on in order to completely control the fan operation.  The Super-Chuffer does not power the smoke resistor.

Got it John. Thank you for the clarification on the routing for the smoke element and interface with the Super-Chuffer.

So far I have received the Super-Chuffer II PCB as well as the resistor needed to modify the smoke unit.

I ordered the smoke unit and funnel directly from MTH, but to date I have not received any type of communications from them regarding the status of my order that I placed this past Saturday. I did receive an email confirming my order, but since then, nothing. Is this normal for MTH? I have never order parts directly from them in the past, so I have no experience to rely on. Will the parts just show up in the mail or will I get some type of shipping notification?

What has your own experience been when ordering parts directly from MTH?

OK, I had to stop rolling around on the floor so I could answer!

I think you're expecting WAY too much to get parts in a week from MTH.  I'd be thinking more along the lines of three-four weeks.

EricaAnn posted:

So far I have received the Super-Chuffer II PCB as well as the resistor needed to modify the smoke unit.

I ordered the smoke unit and funnel directly from MTH, but to date I have not received any type of communications from them regarding my order that I placed this past Saturday. Is this normal for MTH? I have never order parts directly from them in the past, so I have no experience with them.

What has your own experience been when ordering parts directly from MTH?

It may take longer than normal during the holidays for parts. If it's only a small part it was probably shipped priority mail or first class. If you haven't already you might go to usps.com and sign up for informed delivery and it will show all you tracking numbers. It also shows your mail being delivered that day and for the past week.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

OK, I had to stop rolling around on the floor so I could answer!

I think you're expecting WAY too much to get parts in a week from MTH.  I'd be thinking more along the lines of three-four weeks.

Hope you didn't hurt yourself down there! 

Thanks GUNRUNNERJOHN. Now I know.

Gene H posted:

EricaAnn posted:

So far I have received the Super-Chuffer II PCB as well as the resistor needed to modify the smoke unit.

I ordered the smoke unit and funnel directly from MTH, but to date I have not received any type of communications from them regarding my order that I placed this past Saturday. Is this normal for MTH? I have never order parts directly from them in the past, so I have no experience with them.

What has your own experience been when ordering parts directly from MTH?

It may take longer than normal during the holidays for parts. If it's only a small part it was probably shipped priority mail or first class. If you haven't already you might go to usps.com and sign up for informed delivery and it will show all you tracking numbers. It also shows your mail being delivered that day and for the past week.

Gene H,

Hope that's the case, but if GUNRUNNERJOHN is correct and most likely he is, that's okay. I didn't want to pull it off the layout at this time of year anyways. I'll open her up after the Holiday Season. It'll be a good winter project. 

OK, I'm back!

EricaAnn posted:

Gene H posted:

EricaAnn posted:

So far I have received the Super-Chuffer II PCB as well as the resistor needed to modify the smoke unit.

I ordered the smoke unit and funnel directly from MTH, but to date I have not received any type of communications from them regarding my order that I placed this past Saturday. Is this normal for MTH? I have never order parts directly from them in the past, so I have no experience with them.

What has your own experience been when ordering parts directly from MTH?

It may take longer than normal during the holidays for parts. If it's only a small part it was probably shipped priority mail or first class. If you haven't already you might go to usps.com and sign up for informed delivery and it will show all you tracking numbers. It also shows your mail being delivered that day and for the past week.

Gene H,

Hope that's the case, but if GUNRUNNERJOHN is correct and most likely he is, that's okay. I didn't want to pull it off the layout at this time of year anyways. I'll open her up after the Holiday Season. It'll be a good winter project. 

I'm sure John is because MTH only has like two people in there parts department and I'm sure they're swamped with orders for the holiday repairs.

I’ve ordered from MTH and not heard anything for a month until the parts arrived. OK I decided.

Believe it or not, I just got my answer. The FedEx driver just rang my doorbell with a package from FDMTH Electric Trains. The package contained the smoke unit & funnel.

Are you out there GUNRUNNERJOHN?

I'm stunned!   Us guys on the tech side don't get orders for weeks at best!

GUNRUNNERJOHN,

I just received the Super-Chuffer II PCB and upon examination I have a question. When viewing the 10 attachment points there is one that has a square solder pad while the rest of the pads are round. Does this square shaped pad represent P1 or P10?

BTW...nice job on miniaturizing that board! It is small.

Erica, by standard convention, the square pad is pin #1.

There I go assuming again, I see that I actually didn't put that in the document!  I'll have to fix that.

The shrink from the first version makes this fit into places I could never fit the larger one.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Erica, by standard convention, the square pad is pin #1.

There I go assuming again, I see that I actually didn't put that in the document!  I'll have to fix that.

John,

From having done a lot of computer building and wiring over the years, I thought that might be the case. Kind of the same thing as the red wire lead on the old floppy drive cables that needed to be attached to Pin 1 of the drive.

Thanks for the clarification.

BTW, I just received my PS32 heatsink kits, only nine weeks since I ordered them.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

BTW, I just received my PS32 heatsink kits, only nine weeks since I ordered them.

9 WEEKS!

Just wanted to update anyone that may be interested. Got the new fan powered smoke unit installed along with the Super-Chuffer II PCB and WOW, what a difference in the smoke output of that Lionel locomotive! It's like night and day!

The locomotive will now fill a small room with smoke in a very short time. The lovely aroma of smoke pellets drifting through the air. I've always heard that the MTH smoke units were good and I'm finding that out on a first hand basis.

Thanks for all the help GRJ. The one thing I can't get to work is the LED headlight wired through the Super-Chuffer PCB.

BTW...does anyone know how many drops, using an eyedropper, it takes to fill an MTH HO smoke unit?

For the dry MTH unit, I fill the JT-Megasteam dropper about 2/3 and slowly add it allowing time to soak into the wick.

For the headlight, did you wire the TMCC headlight output to pin 3 of the S-C?  If so, pin 4 should be the positive side (negative frame ground) for a single LED. The LED headlight follows what the TMCC headlight output is doing, on if it's on, and off if it's off.

If you wired the TMCC headlight to pin 4, you smoked that port!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

For the dry MTH unit, I fill the JT-Megasteam dropper about 2/3 and slowly add it allowing time to soak into the wick.

For the headlight, did you wire the TMCC headlight output to pin 3 of the S-C?  If so, pin 4 should be the positive side (negative frame ground) for a single LED. The LED headlight follows what the TMCC headlight output is doing, on if it's on, and off if it's off.

If you wired the TMCC headlight to pin 4, you smoked that port!

Hi GRJ,

I wired the (+) lead for the LED headlight to Pin 4, as per the instructions that were enclosed, with the PCB. The (+) lead that was connected to the headlight socket is connected to Pin 3. I connected the (-) lead of the LED to Pin 7.

That should work if the headlight is toggled on, that's all that's required.  The only thing to do is check the LED to see if it's good and wired correctly.  Other than that, I'm out of ideas.  That capability is tested on every Super-Chuffer before it goes out the door, and it's working on hundreds of them.

Let me know what you find out.

It does help a great deal if one turns the headlight on using AUX2 on the CAB-1 right? Problem solved.

The main reason I converted this locomotive to a fan power smoke unit was the burned odor of the smoke fluid that the piston driven unit produced. I don't know what it is, but every piston type smoke unit I have does the same thing. The smoke has a nasty burned aroma to it. I have replaced resistors, cleaned the smoke units and replaced the wicking material to no avail. The fan driven units don't seem to have this problem. The added benefit is much greater smoke output.

I'm using the JT Megasteam smoke pellet fluid which now smells like it should coming from the fan driven unit.

Has anyone else experienced this burning smell from their piston units?

Yep, if you tell me to turn the headlight off, silly me, I do what you say.

Truthfully, I get the mechanical smoke units out so fast for a fan driven replacement that I don't' really notice any odd smells.   One of the issues with the mechanical smoke units is that the smoke resistor stays on at idle and cooks the wick and creates a burnt smell.  Most TMCC and early Legacy locomotives with fan driven smoke don't run the fan at idle, a key factor IMO.  When I get a chance, I'm going to retrofit a couple of my early Legacy units that don't run the fan at idle with a Super-Chuffer.

Just wanted to share a short video of the upgraded Lionel 6-27008, 4-6-4 Hudson, that was the topic of this thread. The project is finally wrapped up with the following list of work performed.

1. Removed the mechanical smoke unit, piston, smoke lever and cherry switch from the locomotive.
2. Modified the existing smoke unit bracket to mount the new fan driven smoke unit and Super-Chuffer II PCB.
3. Modified the MTH fan powered smoke unit by replacing the original heating element (resistor) with a 22 OHM, 2 Watt ceramic coated resistor in order to make it compatible with the Lionel R4LC board.
4. Installed the fan powered smoke unit along with the associated brass funnel, Super-Chuffer II PCB and new LED lighting for both the headlight and classification lights.
5. Removed the motor and sent it off to GRJ for a successful installation of a Chuff Generator kit. Many thanks again for the assistance on this one GRJ.  Took the time to clean-up and replace a lot of dirty grease and lubricated everything while the motor was out.
6. Replaced the original SignalSound/RailSound system located in the tender along with the original speaker and upgraded the sound with ERR's large steam sound board and a upgraded speaker that's a bit higher end than what comes with the ERR kit

Needless to say, I'm very happy with the end results. It's finally all the locomotive I thought it could be!

(I apologize for the locomotive being up on blocks. It was a test run video.)

Lookin' good Erica Ann, glad it all came out right in the end.

Wow it looks and sounds great