The new Chevy Traverse held up pretty good for getting hit by a steam engine. There are some vehicles out there that would have collapsed. My wife must have been a RR engineer - she was never wrong either.
jim pastorius posted:My wife must have been a RR engineer - she was never wrong either.
Is that some kind of smart-a crack leveled at engineers?
There is a large population that ignores stop signs, too ..they are on the nightly nooze every night, being shoveled up. .
smd4 posted:jim pastorius posted:My wife must have been a RR engineer - she was never wrong either.
Is that some kind of smart-a crack leveled at engineers?
Hopefully I am Wrong, but that was my impression ��
Doug
That lot in general is often an area of heated debate in the county. It's overcrowded with tourists, expensive, and getting in and out is a pain due to a bad setup. The thing is, it is a county lot for visiting Jim Thorpe, not just for the station, so it gets people who don't even know the train is running (not that that's an excuse). Honestly though, I'm glad that it was just a car that got hit. Cars and people use that crossing (as it is the only way out without trespassing in the rail yard). There is no designated path for people to walk, so they are dodging the cars entering and exiting the lot, not to mention the trains. It creates a chaotic situation, especially in October when the leaves are in full color.
The local news just said that the county won't put a gate in there because Penndot wants a turning lane if lights are put in to ease congestion. While I'm not sure that gates are needed, something needs to be done with that lot to make it easier to use.
My! My! Aren't we touchy. It was meant as a joke about my wife and all the other "perfects". Drink a cold one and relax.
I do hope some action is taken at that crossing before something worse happens. I'm sure the driver, being from Western PA., may not have been familiar with the area, and he does appear panicked in the video clip when he first saw the train.
Driving privileges and the elderly are a serious subject today and going forward due to aging of the baby boomer generations. When do elderly drivers say enough is enough? To many of them, driving can be one of their last freedoms.
In my family, we have 3 invalids. My father turned in his license several years ago at 77 due to the encroachment of dementia and vision problems , it took a couple of scary near-misses before all of us realized he did not have the vision or reactions to safely drive anymore. My mother (82) has a terminal disease, but still insists on driving in "emergencies". She has a valid license and insurance, so what can you do? A brother has a bi-polar condition, when does he reach the point of not driving?
Part of my employment is driving hazardous bio shipments, every 2 years I must take and pass a Federal DOT physical, and the last 2 times, I have been told that I have a condition that may eventually threaten my livelihood.
My ability to transport these shipments are the main reason I've stayed employed, so vigilance on my part is called for.
For many years, I have wondered how no one has been injured or worse at WMSR's Frostburg depot, as there is a public road cutting between the station and the turntable.
Borden Tunnel posted:For many years, I have wondered how no one has been injured or worse at WMSR's Frostburg depot, as there is a public road cutting between the station and the turntable.
I think they usually stop before the road and then flag the locomotive across the street.
Railfan Brody posted:Borden Tunnel posted:For many years, I have wondered how no one has been injured or worse at WMSR's Frostburg depot, as there is a public road cutting between the station and the turntable.
I think they usually stop before the road and then flag the locomotive across the street.
I'm talking about the train's passengers and other pedestrians, plus bicyclists from the GAP trail.
Attached is a view from 501's cab to illustrate.
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When I used to drive in Military Convoys here in the states, I used to see things that would make you cringe. We even had people purposely cut us off. It is impossible to get an M-925 gun truck towing a M-198 Howitzer to stop in in it's own length at 45 mph.
Clarence Siman posted:When I used to drive in Military Convoys here in the states, I used to see things that would make you cringe. We even had people purposely cut us off.
Why would they do that? Cutting off a military vehicle. That is one of the most disrespectful things I have ever heard of.
I suspect most of the people making judgments here have not reached their 76th year. I'm not quite there yet myself, but I could see this happening to some of my elderly relatives. It's not that they are idiots or texting. Yes, it is easier for the elderly to get confused and lose situational awareness. Losing the ability to drive is a very difficult and potentially traumatic subject for the elderly. Are you sure this couldn't happen to some elderly relative you love?
A little more compassion and understanding might be more appropriate than trying to prove who can judge most harshly and then piling on.
Railfan Brody posted:Clarence Siman posted:When I used to drive in Military Convoys here in the states, I used to see things that would make you cringe. We even had people purposely cut us off.
Why would they do that? Cutting off a military vehicle. That is one of the most disrespectful things I have ever heard of.
Brody;
Please don't take this the wrong way, but do you do much driving? 
In the last 17 years I was working, I was commuting from the Poconos into Manhattan or Sleepy Hollow in Westchester - about 100 miles each way. Courtesy on the road is sadly lacking. On a fairly regular basis, I passed military convoys on the road. They tend to move at a reasonable pace, but often below the posted speed limit (unlike pretty much everyone else on the road). Military vehicles are much like those big double semi's - they can't stop on a dime. Disrespect aside, cutting them off is asking to have your rear end rearranged!!!
Was there any Crossing Gates there? I would say they would have some for safety reasons. Just horrible. The Tender is easier to fix and thank the man up stairs that the engine wasn't in front.
Jim Thorpe gets crazy on the weekends with hundreds of cars going in and out of the parking lot. Most of the time there is a line of cars waiting to pull out into traffic and they'll sit right on the tracks waiting for there turn to get out. Reading railroad leases the land and tracks from Carbon county. So if there is a lawsuit the county will be named in it to. Getting back to the video, you can tell by the expression of the whistle that the engineer was totally aware of the car's approach to the tracks and gave the car fair warning that he was coming. Hopefully the expression of the whistle will help to defend the railroad. The picture below happened on a Sunday about two weeks ago. This is how crazy it gets here.
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In 22 years of investigating train/auto collisions as part of my job, I found that a significant number did not speed up or drive around other vehicles to try to beat the train, but just kept proceeding steadily toward the crossing and collided with a train. Distracted? Daydreaming? Drowsy? Most likely distracted, but distracted driving is not always caused by tinkering with cellular phones. Misbehaving children in the back seat, zoning in on a sign they are trying to read, fiddling with the radio, radio volume so loud that they did not hear the trains warning . . . these and other things also contribute to distracted driving. But, as Rich pointed out, his personal observations are that cell phone texting is rampant.
As we get a little older I find that I have to pay closer attention to my driving habits...Especially in my old town where a through street may now be a stop or 4 way stop.... My wife and I now call intersections to each other. Ok my way, Ok my way as a double check.....
I sometimes buy her a couple of scratch tickets to keep her occupied and this lets me concentrate on my driving...
Never thought I see the day I didn't enjoy driving .
EscapeRocks posted:The driver is 76, and his wife is 77.
Idiots come in all ages. Let's not get into ageism here.
Best part about messing with the military convoy is their vehicles don't have plates. How can you identify them as they keep rolling on!
Alas, relying on drivers to use good judgement is hopeless. At any given time at least 10% of the US population is mentally ill. Also, the median IQ is 100; that means 50% have an IQ below that measure. Combine those issues with distracting electronic devices, radio tuning, young ladies applying make-up, spilling McDonald's hot coffee on laps, kids yelling in the back seat, life's worries impinging on consciousness, dropping something on the floor, ad infinitum. Probably an insoluble problem until universal driver-less cars.
mark s posted:Alas, relying on drivers to use good judgement is hopeless. At any given time at least 10% of the US population is mentally ill. Also, the median IQ is 100; that means 50% have an IQ below that measure. Combine those issues with distracting electronic devices, radio tuning, young ladies applying make-up, spilling McDonald's hot coffee on laps, kids yelling in the back seat, life's worries impinging on consciousness, dropping something on the floor, ad infinitum. Probably an insoluble problem until universal driver-less cars.
Until your driverless car gets distracted by that hot, new cell phone in your hand...
Rusty
mark s posted:Alas, relying on drivers to use good judgement is hopeless. At any given time at least 10% of the US population is mentally ill. Also, the median IQ is 100; that means 50% have an IQ below that measure. Combine those issues with distracting electronic devices, radio tuning, young ladies applying make-up, spilling McDonald's hot coffee on laps, kids yelling in the back seat, life's worries impinging on consciousness, dropping something on the floor, ad infinitum. Probably an insoluble problem until universal driver-less cars.
Unless the system running the driverless cars is a HAL 9000!! Ot the computer gets hacked or there is a bug in the programming.
Everyone is so quick to jump on the bandwagon.... Do we know any facts?
Here in Cleveland a year or two ago we had a lady run over by the CVSR. Everyone wondered how she didn't hear the horn which is extremely loud at the crossing in Peninsula. The answer? She was Deaf.
Be slow to judge...
jonnyspeed posted:Everyone is so quick to jump on the bandwagon.... Do we know any facts?
Well, the video of the event pretty well shows what happened.
Here in Cleveland a year or two ago we had a lady run over by the CVSR. Everyone wondered how she didn't hear the horn which is extremely loud at the crossing in Peninsula. The answer? She was Deaf.
But, she was NOT driving a vehicle!
Be slow to judge...
Borden Tunnel posted:Driving privileges and the elderly are a serious subject today and going forward due to aging of the baby boomer generations. When do elderly drivers say enough is enough? To many of them, driving can be one of their last freedoms.
In my family, we have 3 invalids. My father turned in his license several years ago at 77 due to the encroachment of dementia and vision problems , it took a couple of scary near-misses before all of us realized he did not have the vision or reactions to safely drive anymore. My mother (82) has a terminal disease, but still insists on driving in "emergencies". She has a valid license and insurance, so what can you do? A brother has a bi-polar condition, when does he reach the point of not driving?
The DMVs in many states are terrified of the elderly. Nobody wants to fail an old person, for various reasons. I once was waiting to re-new my license (in an office very near a large retirement community) and an ancient woman was going through the eye test. I actually heard this:
DMV woman: "Okay, there's a flashing light to your left or right..."
Old lady: "There isn't one. I don't see it"
DMV woman: "No, there is a flashing light to your left or right..."
Old lady (said clearly in desperation): "Uh.... uh... okay, right!"
DMV woman: "Again, there's a flashing light to your left or right, and it's isn't on the right!"
The rest of us waiting were total aghast. The next guy got up to that counter after the old lady left (with her renewed license, of course) and asked about that. The DMV lady told him, "We can't risk AARP and people like coming down here making our lives impossible, because that's what'd happen."
RoyBoy posted:EscapeRocks posted:The driver is 76, and his wife is 77.
Idiots come in all ages. Let's not get into ageism here.
Agreed. I handle insurance liability claims, and I've handled countless accidents, determining liability, over 15 years. There's no average age for an accident.
The only thing I laugh about with ages is when an older person in an accident with a young person will go on and on about how people assume they caused it due to their advanced age and how wrong that is, then immediately gripe about how the teen in the other car has to be at fault just because they're young. I stopped pointing out the irony in that years ago because they never get it even when it's pointed out.
The bottom line is you can be prejudiced against people of certain ages, even in an official capacity, but only against the young.
jonnyspeed posted:Everyone is so quick to jump on the bandwagon.... Do we know any facts?
I'd be able to determine liability on that loss easily against the driver of the SUV from that video. The only thing I can't tell for certain from the video that I'd want to know is if there's a crossing sign there (I assume there is and it looks like there is one, but I couldn't tell 100% as there are other poles in the way of what looks like one). Other than that, I have made most of my liability decisions over the years with a lot less than this.
Brody,
People would cut us off for multiple reasons, some for insurance money, some because they didn't like the Military, and some just to be ignorant.
My Gun Chief was involved in a fatal accident where a Bronco broke convoy, and hit the Howitzer being towed in front of him. The Gun Truck driver felt the impact and applied the brakes, and Tim (my Chief) couldn't stop in time. The result was a dead civilian. The Bronco was shortened by four feet, and the front axle of Tim's truck was completely torn off.
Who knows why anyone does anything.
Hope the tender wasn't damaged. Several truckloads of Chevy Traverse have rolled off the line since this occurred. Operable steam locomotives are few and far between.
I don't wish anyone harm, but pulling in front of a locomotive is akin to walking down the center line of the interstate. If you get squashed like a bug, it's all on you.
Gilly@N&W posted:Hope the tender wasn't damaged. Several truckloads of Chevy Traverse have rolled off the line since this occurred. Operable steam locomotives are few and far between.
I don't wish anyone harm, but pulling in front of a locomotive is akin to walking down the center line of the interstate. If you get squashed like a bug, it's all on you.
Bent the tender step and scraped the black paint.
Clarence Siman posted:Brody,
People would cut us off for multiple reasons, some for insurance money, some because they didn't like the Military, and some just to be ignorant.
Who knows why anyone does anything.
In insurance claims, we hardly ever ask, "why," as you'll never know why people did something.
As for 'insurance money,' colliding with a government vehicle is the worst thing you could ever do if you're looking for the big payday. You'll be tied up in red tape forever. Same with a commercial trucking company. It's very common for the driver to deny the loss ever happened (as some trucking companies will fire a driver for being in an at-fault loss) and the trucking company to tell you to take a hike.
CarGuyZM10 posted:Gilly@N&W posted:Hope the tender wasn't damaged.
Bent the tender step and scraped the black paint.
I'm surprised it bent anything on the tender. The SUV was hit in an area that normally collapses in an accident. Kind of like stepping on a empty soda can, on the center of the can v/s the ends. The tender was, of course, the heel in this analogy.
CarGuyZM10 posted:Gilly@N&W posted:Hope the tender wasn't damaged. Several truckloads of Chevy Traverse have rolled off the line since this occurred. Operable steam locomotives are few and far between.
I don't wish anyone harm, but pulling in front of a locomotive is akin to walking down the center line of the interstate. If you get squashed like a bug, it's all on you.
Bent the tender step and scraped the black paint.
Hope Andy sends 'em the bill!
p51 posted:CarGuyZM10 posted:Gilly@N&W posted:Hope the tender wasn't damaged.
Bent the tender step and scraped the black paint.
I'm surprised it bent anything on the tender. The SUV was hit in an area that normally collapses in an accident. Kind of like stepping on a empty soda can, on the center of the can v/s the ends. The tender was, of course, the heel in this analogy.
The rear tender step in nothing but a U-shaped piece of unbraced strap steel, probably 1/4" thick. It would give to horizontal pressure from a collision.
Rusty
The only thing I can't tell for certain from the video that I'd want to know is if there's a crossing sign there (I assume there is and it looks like there is one, but I couldn't tell 100% as there are other poles in the way of what looks like one).
????? is there??
Driver should sue Chevy for naming his vehicle "Traverse" 
Gregg posted:The only thing I can't tell for certain from the video that I'd want to know is if there's a crossing sign there (I assume there is and it looks like there is one, but I couldn't tell 100% as there are other poles in the way of what looks like one).
????? is there??
There is, but nothing else. As mentioned in my original post, the entire spot looked like an accident waiting to happen.
SJC posted:Gregg posted:The only thing I can't tell for certain from the video that I'd want to know is if there's a crossing sign there (I assume there is and it looks like there is one, but I couldn't tell 100% as there are other poles in the way of what looks like one).
????? is there??
There is, but nothing else. As mentioned in my original post, the entire spot looked like an accident waiting to happen.
Looking at the video, I thought I saw the outer edges of the crossbuck sign, but couldn't be certain. Thanks for confirming that. If there'd been no sign there, it would have gotten ugly for the RR. But with one, I think they'll do well.
That said, it wouldn't stop a lawyer from demanding money anyway. It happens more than you think, where a attorney office demands payment to their client for a loss that everyone agrees their client caused. It's a calculated risk, as most people (and insurance companies in many cases) don't want to deal with the expense of a legal defense.
Even if the owner of the car doesn't go after the RR, I wonder if his car insurance company will, in order to recoup what they have to pay out to repair or replace the car.
I looked on Google Maps and I have proof that there was a crossbuck sign at the crossing.
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Good pic Brody...
Here's a quote from my old rule book
"Before making switching movements over unprotected public at grade where the engineman's view of the crossing is obscured, arrangements must be made for a member of the crew to be in position to observe the crossing and give signals to the engineman as necessary." (flagman)
A unprotected crossing would be one with cross bucks only (no gates or flashers)
In this case the engineman has a good view of the crossing on his side but none on the other. If he didn't have a fireman and the car was travelling the opposite direction we could have a problem
It wasn't and there probably was another crew member on the engine.
Dave Zucal posted:Even if the owner of the car doesn't go after the RR, I wonder if his car insurance company will, in order to recoup what they have to pay out to repair or replace the car.
No, I couldn't imagine a sane claim handler thinking for a moment to subrogate the RR. If this had been one of mine, knowing what I know, I'd have told the policyholder, "I get you think the train somehow caused this, but we're accepting liability" and moving on.
I have no sympathy for the SUV driver, but I sure hope that 425 is OK.
