The next time you think internet prices on used toy train items give any indication of market value . . .

Where do you think industry got the idea for on demand parts?....nah...

The variable were so different: 99% of ads had no pictures, you wrote letters and/or called on a phone first with a cord (back when 1 tele-marketing call a month would be excessive)  Grading was really not as "tight" among TCA. But I think you still needed a referral to join then. More than one good guy had his rep smeared a bit by association, and introduction.   

My phones ringer is off, and gets answered every time...by an answering machine, and its voice. Everyone that knows us, knows the speaker works as the voice plays, and speak out "hey are you there?" and waits 10-20 seconds. Works well. Those that don't know? If you miss it? If they care, they leave messages, and can be called right back either way. Still much nicer than looking at, but not answering that cell phone  

E bay has a feature that I like in regards to pricing. Go to E bay next the search button there is the wording "Advance". Click on that and go down to the "sold listings" click on that box and type in the item you are looking for and a list for that item. Do the search and E Bay will give you a list for the last few month what that item sold for on E Bay. The only price you will not see is what the "Best Offer" was priced. I learned this neat trick from a E Bay seller. This will give you an idea of what the market rate is on E bay for that item. I use it when I plan on buying or selling an item on E Bay.

This is a neat thread, mostly not due to anything I had to do with it.  

The ridiculous, greed-driven prices for my book aside, I have wto rules I never deviate from when buying used on-line or at swap meets:

1) Never shop or buy unless I know enough about the condition and value of the items to know what I'm buying and what a decent price is . . . 

2) Never buy from someone who is over-pricing their item or over-representing its "rare," one-of-a-kind nature.  They are either idiots, or dishonest.  Maybe both.  But either way, you can't trust them and they will be difficult to deal with.  

I learned these two rules from experience.

I wish I had a dollar for every time I saw an item listed as rare and the humorous aspect of this is to find several listing on the same page with reasonable prices. The positive and negative aspects of a market driven economy are impossible to control.

As I write this in the post fire writing of an inventory of what I lost, the forms ask for a replacement cost for each item in today's market which relates to both the rare and common items. Price guides as "averages" seem to be obsolete before they are published. Thats not to mention even TCA grading can be manipulated and the common listing that asks you to determine condition of an item by photos alone is a bad joke.

I can understand your frustration as a honest seller and broker. 

I have to agree with Lee on this one.  Everything he listed is correct and should be used as a guide in a purchase. I seen more than one person and listing as "rare and valuable" Nothing more than a nightmare to deal with and do not have a clue to what they are say or just trying to rip you off. Pass it by another item like that will come along at the right price and the right grade, trust me.

Nothing hurts so bad as the the thing you bought for X, expecting 2X in the future, and instead getting 0.3X.

Trains, shares of a stock, Lionel 17XXX cars ....

I have a blanket rule of any ebay listing that has the word 'rare' in it I do not even bother looking it over.

I laugh when I see rare in a description.  I also do what others have said, I quickly pass it by without a further glance.  I don't recall ever seeing this in a description where the item wasn't overpriced!  It's like the seller is putting up a sign, this listing for idiots!

 If you thought of trains as an investment, I can see that you would be disappointed.  Train purchases should be for fun and never based on getting a return. From the time that I started collecting the expectation was that my trains would be worthless one day. 

With little of the TCA's resources being dedicated to get youth involved (where's the youth program?)  and when the audience (all of us here) succumbs to the effects of aging and/or goes home to meet the Lord, you won't be able to give the stuff away.  

I once saw a bay listing for an O22 switch as rare.  Lionel must have made 10s of thousands of these.  I recently saw a Hornby level crossing listed as rare, it was the most common accessory that they made.  Hornby collectors have to work at not getting too many.  That listing was later corrected.

Bill

With caller ID, it's fairly easy to see it's someone you don't need to talk to.  When this happens, I answer, and say "ello, no speak inglis so good, bye-bye".  

I got tired of walking to, or finding the phone to read it.

Been doing that for years you will see some real low in there sometimes and that was just a buyer getting lucky and you will see some real high and there a seller got lucky I will add them all up and then divide by how many there is there to get average price to give me a idea where to list at and where to end bidding at. 

For junk calls, you can cut down on the number.  I use Nomorobo, it actually works great.  It's good enough that the phone spammers are trying to get them outlawed!

At those prices, you'd think they could at least offer to ship it for free, but noooo.

Someone should contact the one guy Lee wrote to, and ask if it is one of the rare copies Lee actually signed. Can I Lee? Can I, can I?

Well, it seems there is a lot to this business about ridiculous prices on Amazon.

See this link: http://www.michaeleisen.org/blog/?p=358

I was irate just yesterday at a listing for a single pair of Kadee O guage couplers for $53!

The reason these things happen seems to be all over the map, from seller greed, laziness in inventory keeping and computer pricing algorithms running amok! 

I mean, a book with two sellers listing it for millions of dollars! And nobody notices?

And, apparently Amazon doesn't care.

What's that Lee, only 4 1/2 stars for your book?

Reminds me of a recent Amazon purchase of mine (I'm the rube in this story).  I'd been monitoring an out of stock LEGO Frank Lloyd Wright architectural model. The prices were outrageous and kept going up so I decided that I'd better buy the cheapest one before they reached 4-digits or something rediculous. The model arrived promptly but with some suspicious box damage to the corners. The seller in their rush to ship had left THEIR Amazon sales receipt in the box!  From it I learned that they got the model from another seller for a much cheaper price and that they applied numerous discounts and frequent purchaser bonuses to bring their purchase price 'way down.   So basically, this seller must have been watching what was popular or "rare", used their Amazon bonuses to get it cheaply, jacked up the price from the baseline of the previous seller, and sold it to me.  It was really obvious that people with no interest in architecture were just flipping this same box for a quick buck.  Obviously, I knew I was paying too much and was willing to do so, and the model looks great on my desk at work. But, my gosh, if I didn't have that receipt as evidence, I never would have imagined the racket that must go on in Amazon land.  I'm still waiting for a moment to write my "customer review" of that seller :-).

Tomlinson Run RR

Now I know why I can't call gunrunnerjohn.

Tomlinson,

Which building?

And thanks, I didn't know they were out there.

...I'm still waiting for a moment to write my "customer review" of that seller :-).

There is nothing wrong with what the seller did. It's called capitalism. And, you yourself said you knew it was too much and were willing to pay it. I think it would be disingenuous for you to write a negative review, if that is your intention. 

Most Ebayers would not consider 96% a very good rating at all.

quote:

I once saw a bay listing for an O22 switch as rare. 

IMHO, it is foolish to believe any seller's description of an item being rare without some sort of external verification. Heck: I wouldn't even hazard a guess of the number of items I've seen listed as being Lionel that were made by another company.

And it seems that half of the oddball, customized items out there came from Madison Hardware. If not from Madison, it must have been a factory prototype.

Adriatic,

It was the Robie House in Chicago.  LEGO has done a bunch of Wright buildings.  Alas, nothing to any useful scale. Check out: http://shop.lego.com/en-US/Buildings-ByCategory

The high price of LEGOS is what actually got me to finally buy a trainset after decades of thinking about it and hanging around hobby stores buying HO scale buildings and vehicles that I'd never finish. LEGO's emphasis on European electric train models and the high cost of new and second market parts to do any decent customizing for what I wanted made a Lionel RTR set look like a much better investment.  Especially when it came in my grandfather's RR (PRR).  And, yes, I bought it on Amazon. When their email told me I needed a train set, I agreed and they were right for once. :-).

I did purchase a bunch of the "new red" LEGO bricks before I got sensible, which is what the Robie House is built out of.  If I have enough, I may hack together a trolley shed for my MTH Pittsburgh Trolley.

Tomlinson Run RR

Hey Dennis,

Well, it's not so much a complaint that I paid the high price nor to single out that seller. What I had in mind was more of a public service announcement to purchasers in general that out of stock LEGO models were being flipped and so the prices do not reflect a true market price/capitalism.  The receipt the seller left in the box really tells an amazingly instructive story that I thought might be fun to share but not in a mean spirited way. Lastly, in my original post I left out the part that the LEGO box wasn't packed properly and arrived severely damaged sporting a gaping hole in the top graphic.  If I was a rabid LEGO collector, believe me, it would have been a really bad thing as collectors sell boxes. But the parts were intact and that's all I cared about.  As I said, I'm quite happy being the rube in this case.

TRRR

quote:

Well, it's not so much a complaint that I paid the high price nor to single out that seller. What I had in mind was more of a public service announcement to purchasers in general that out of stock LEGO models were being flipped and so the prices do not reflect a true market price/capitalism.  The receipt the seller left in the box really tells an amazingly instructive story that I thought might be fun to share but not in a mean spirited way. Lastly, in my original post I left out the part that the LEGO box wasn't packed properly and arrived severely damaged sporting a gaping hole in the top graphic.  If I was a rabid LEGO collector, believe me, it would have been a really bad thing as collectors sell boxes. But the parts were intact and that's all I cared about.  As I said, I'm quite happy being the rube in this case.

That would be a totally inappropriate comment to leave as someone's customer review. You probably had some idea of the original list price of the item. The profits resulting from the inflated price had to go somewhere.
On the other hand, if you wanted to complain about the quality of his packing, that would be a whole other matter, provided you let the seller know you were dissatisfied, and gave him/her the opportunity to make it right.

Yeah, that's right!  It's VerDANA!....My sistah!  What's it to ya????  Ya gotta problem, fella!?!?

She's got just as much class as that other dame, Veranda!

I would not complain about the price. That would indeed be inappropriate. As I wrote, I did my homework and I paid it willingly.  My hypothetical comment would have referred to the packaging because the seller specifically said they packed it well, when in fact there was 6" all around with no packing material. When the outside box took a hit, so did the inside box.  So, absolutely, I would have given the seller a chance to make it right if they chose to.  But, I just didn't care enough given all the other higher priority things in my life that were requiring my attention. (This happened enough months ago, I can't remember when.)

The thing that makes this experience unusual is the seller left the receipt in the box that showed in great detail the timing of events. It literally was flipped in one day. That's what got me dreaming about a "public service announcement" comment that might be of interest.  And, that's basically what I've accomplished here with you folks, without singling out any specific seller. :-}  What I kept thinking was how unfortunate that non-hobbyists were setting the prices for items that they didn't care about.  Children and people who don't have high paying jobs or disposable income are getting priced out of the joy that a house or train model can bring.  Sure, that would happen to some people eventually even among hobbyist-exclusive trading, but it would be a nice thing if others didn't accelerate the process. And sadly, my having the ability to make that purchase inadvertently contributed to jacking the price up.

Ah, if only we lived in a perfect world.

Tomlinson Run RR

quote:

 What I kept thinking was how unfortunate that non-hobbyists were setting the prices for items that they didn't care about.  Children and people who don't have high paying jobs or disposable income are getting priced out of the joy that a house or train model can bring. 

That has been going on in the world of collecting (including train collecting) for ever.

But I guess that these dealers are providing a service, by finding these desired items, and making them available to those that want them. A lot of folks either don't have the time or the inclination to "pound the pavement" to find these things for themselves.

I still think that it would be inappropriate to leave a negative comment about the packaging when you did not give the seller the chance to "make it right".

Obviously an autographed first edition copy.

Gilly

Hey you just shush up now!  Somebody's trying to make some money and here you are ruining it!  Verdana Veranda... ToMAHto ToMAYto....  there just no pleasing you guys.

And on a side note... Lee I'm sorry I butchered her name.

Hi Lee:

I joined this thread late and if nobody else has said this let me be the first: you are being too humble.  Based on your book’s content, almost each and every chapter is worth $32.00 or more! 

Bill 

Your right, Bill.

Mine was cheaper, and didn't weigh as much, thanks to Lee

I'm not even using streets, but really enjoyed reading that, and his blogs too.

You don't pay for your own lunch very often when you travel, do you Lee? 

One's waiting here too.

 I did see most of them surfing around. But I didn't see enough shots with something else of a known size, for a good comparison.

Are they in scale with each other for the most part?

There is nothing wrong with stating you felt you had to overpay in a review.

Nothing wrong with stating you questioned a price, or its system.

That's called freedom of speech.

I hear it goes along well with capitalistic markets. 

Adriatic,

Got a chuckle from your freedom of speech and capitalism comment :-). I have Fallingwater and the Robie House and they are not in scale to each other.  But with LEGO's brick ratio, "scale" is never exact and designers are restricted by having to use in production pieces, which in turn dictates the model's size. I'm attaching photos as an FYI. The Kinsmart Dodge Power Wagon is 1:42 to make this post "O" gauge relevant -- however remotely! =smile=.  The Robie House three car garages are too small for a 1:76 car model.  (I "Ted Turnerized" Fallingwater and added a missing balcony and other details.) The final photos are on my deck so you can get an idea of the two model's relative size. Crummy camera, crummy pix. But it should give you a rough idea.

Tomlinson Run RR

Well since it's an opinion thread, mine is that there is EVERYTHING wrong with what that seller did. "Capitalism?" It's dirtier side, perhaps. Not illegal, but certainly immoral IMO!

And Amazon is choc-a-bloc full of these trash listings carrying utterly ridiculous prices! I posted in another thread of a listing for a single pair of O guage Kadees for $51.68 Canadian . . . without so much as free shipping BTW! I'd give the link but it's easy enough to find. Would you trust any merchant with such a listing?

The scam, and it IS just a scam, is to price high for an object you, in all likelihood,  don't even have. A sucker bites and you get the thing . . . from somewhere . . . anywhere actually, at the "usual" price and ship it along to the sucker.

If that's OK in your book, fine! It's not OK in mine!

But, it's an opinion. We know what is said about those.

Amazon is just like every other marketplace. As ever, "Caveat Emptor!"

The flip side? "Never give a sucker an even break!"

It's like telemarketing in a way. Utterly amazing any telemarketer EVER sells ANYTHING to ANYBODY! But they very obviously do!

Ebay gets all sorts of severe criticism for every offence known to man. But somehow, Amazon is a "golden haired child" of capitalism and this underside of the Amazon marketplace seems little known.

I repeat, is the practice "legal?" Sure! At least I guess it is. I'm not a lawyer.

Ethical? Not in my book!

quote:

The scam, and it IS just a scam, is to price high for an object you, in all likelihood,  don't even have. A sucker bites and you get the thing . . . from somewhere . . . anywhere actually, at the "usual" price and ship it along to the sucker.

Since the original poster has the sales receipt from the sellers purchase, perhaps she can tell us whether the seller did this.