The Scent Of Ozone...

Re: steam switchers... you might find that Lionel's four-wheel switchers are also "big."  In other words, if the prototype is really a PRR A5, they scale out to more than 1:48.  In this case the true scale models from Weaver and MTH might actually fit in better size-wise, although the paint finish and level of detail is very different from Postwar.  If you want to stick with the Lionel 0-4-0's, IMO the 1656 is the smoothest runner of the bunch.  For some variety, find a prewar 203 (0-6-0) and retrofit it with knuckle couplers.  The 6-wheel small switcher was never reintroduced after the war.  But they are geared a little lower and actually have pretty decent slow-speed for switching.

Those Kusan FA's look good!  Never tried one.  I would be interested to hear about how well they run, compared to the well-known Lionel versions.  Love this topic!

@laming posted:

 

 

TWAIT A MINUTE!!... HOLD THE PHONE!!!....

Yeee haw! USPS just delivered my box containing my 2055, 2065, 2046W!! 

Cutting this one off right here... and getting ready to unbox, get some pics, set up a loop, and...

Film at 11.

Andre

Well, How do you like your purchases? I guess we won't know for a short while while you test things out (I know that feeling of anticipation mixed with excitement.)

By the way Andre, I was able to locate a very decent looking copy of that book "Model Railroading". I have not received it yet, but from the photo it looks great and appears to have the same photo cover as yours.

Update:

Wow, some replies before and after I posted my recent update! Cool. Let's see what y'all said...

palallin:

Don't mix 'em? Run 'em separate? Hm. Hadn't thought of that...

OKAY... enough of that! I don't even want to go there!!

You also said:

"Strangely, I don't have a problem with the adjacent On30 next to either one."

We're a weird lot, us model rails.

Trumptrain!

You hit the nail straight on the head! Looking forward to the day I can fill a room with ozone... even if its only from a locomotive circling an oval on the kitchen table!

BTW: What make of trumpet you play? "Way back when" (Jr. High, mid-60s) I played trumpet. Had a Bach Stradivarius. I understand that was quite a trumpet. It must have been, for I made the mistake of leaving it at school in the band cabinet only once. It was stolen. Ended up taking the insurance $$ and buying a bass guitar and amp (renting a trumpet to finish the school year). Played bass ever since.

Trumpets? What does that have to do with Postwar ozone??? (I'm amazing. SO hard for me to not drift in a topic.) Sheesh. Back to my topic at hand...

BREAKING NEWS!!!

Just got down unboxing my stash that arrived, put 'em on the table and snapped some "before" pics. Here they be.

2065...

2055...

2046W...

Setting up an oval on the kitchen table and using my trusty 1033, here's my first findings:

2065...

Runs great. E-unit works reliably. Needs disassembled cleaned and lubed. (After I'm done with this post.) Headlight does not work. Numbers nice and strong. No dents. Some edges there's paint chipping. The rods are bright and very clean. Rollers look great.

2055...

E-unit cycles reliably. Ran free in reverse, very sluggish forward at first, but freed up quickly. Headlight works. Numbers nice and strong. No dents. Some edges there's minor paint chipping. The rods need to be removed and cleaned with fine steel wool/etc. Rollers look great. Same deal: Needs disassembled, cleaned and lubed.

2046W...

I feel like such an idiot. (Not an uncommon occurrence, I might add.) When I was viewing the pics of it, I was studying the really important stuff: All steps intact, over all condition, under frame condition, wheel condition, roller condition, rust, etc, etc. Never even noticed that it's a "Pennsylvania" tender!!! (I guess my pea-sized brain ignorantly "assumed" it was LIONEL LINES??) SO... eventually the shell is going to be up for trade for a "LIONEL LINES" shell of the same quality. Whistle relay works, whistle motor tries... but I stopped right there before abusing the brushes. Needs to be disassembled, cleaned, lubed, etc.

SO...

Except for the idiot move on the tender lettering, I done good. Overall these engines are in very good (maybe excellent?) exterior condition, likewise the tender. Mechanically they seem to be sound, but will need the cleaning/lubing routine performed. Speaking of which... need to load 'em up and head out to my layout room where my workbench is located!

All fer now!

Andre

Some quick replies to the input while typing the above...

Ted:

Thanks for the insight on the 1600 series 0-4-0's. I will need to see one up close and personal before I spend the $$ on one. Also thank you for your other tips. As for the Kusan's: They're two rail. I also understand from Kusan owners that they don't run the best. However, they look GREAT. Oh, and I was also told that a Kusan shell could be made to fit the K-Line 'Lionel replica" FA.

N5CJonny:

Thrilled with 'em. (Except my Pennsylvania debacle!)

You found a copy of Bantam Book's "Model Railroading"? Cool! You're gonna' love taking the trip down Nostalgia Avenue it will produce. Love the smell of my Bantam Book too, even though I get odd looks from the Ms when I open it, and poke my nose in to inhale the fragrance! (Yeah, I'm weird.)

Okay... need to load 'em up and off to the Hobby Hut!!

Andre

Andre I wouldn't let steel wool anywhere near my trains!  Especially not the 2055 / 2065 which have magnets in their chassis for traction.  If the side rods are rusty, that's realism!  If it bothers you, you could use nylon Scotchbrite or a chemical solution that "dissolves" rust.

Yes the Kusan molds were reused by K-Line.  However the K-Line versions ride a little high, because each truck contains a huge, transversely mounted can motor geared to the wheels.  Unless you permanently rewire those traction motors in series, the K-Line diesels run REALLY fast!  I bought a set of the K-Line FAs wasn't happy, and promptly returned them.  YMMV.

@laming posted:

N5CJonny:

Thrilled with 'em. (Except my Pennsylvania debacle!)

You found a copy of Bantam Book's "Model Railroading"? Cool! You're gonna' love taking the trip down Nostalgia Avenue it will produce. Love the smell of my Bantam Book too, even though I get odd looks from the Ms when I open it, and poke my nose in to inhale the fragrance! (Yeah, I'm weird.)

Okay... need to load 'em up and off to the Hobby Hut!!

Andre

Yep, like I said it looks like your book by Bantam books. I decided to check out a train dealer in New Jersey I have been dealing with for many years (All Aboard Train Shoppe) and I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it. Not only did he have that book, but he is selling another of the same book just like it plus older issues as well!

Very glad you are happy with your purchases!

I agree with Ted saying to stay away from steel wool when cleaning those rods as the fine metal particles can find a way into everything.

Scotchbrite is your friend for most things. No small metallic particles to ruin things.

You can also remove rust with WD-40 and a BRASS bristle tooth brush. Works great. Best if you remove the rod first and set it on a flat surface.

Apologies to Paul Simon:

"Hello ozone my old friend,

I've come to be with you again,

With trains of ancient O gauge,

Old Bantam books I turn the page,

Revive visions, long planted in my brain,

They still remain,

All with the scent...  Of Ozone."

Rusty

Hi All:

Yup, on "stay away from fine steel wool" idea. What I had in mind was using a product for cleaning chrome called "Nevr-Dull" by Eagle One. It's a tin can filled with what looks like a roll of fiberglass that has a solution in it. You pull off a bit and polish with it. Works pretty good on motorcycle chrome. However, it may not be fiberglass... it might be metallic. SO, I'll follow y'all's advice and nixo the use of any suspect material. Scotchbrite it shall be.

UPDATE:

Engines...

Used a soft toothbrush on the boilers of both engines. Helped, but didn't get all of the dust. I think the dust has oil in it and it will take more than a dry toothbrush to cut it. Would it be okay to use warm soapy water on the boilers, or would that put the cab numbers in jeopardy?

One at a time, I removed their boilers, removed the brush plate and cleaned the armature and slots, cleaned out the brush cups and the brushes themselves. Upon reassembly of the brush plate I applied LaBelle oil at the bearing points of the armature, as well as all other bearing surfaces (axles, gear studs) and pivot points (rods/etc). I used LeBelle white grease on the spur gears.

For now, I've only insured they were mechanically sound with no mechanical issues and made sure they have fresh lubrication/etc so as not to do more harm than good when running them around the oval. They run much more quietly and smoothly now at much lower voltages. However, 2065 seems to bind up noticeably going around an 027 curve. The 2055 does not.

As for cleaning 2055's rods: I will attend to disassembly of the 2055 for rod cleaning some other time, that is if I decide to tackle it.

2065's headlight: Turned out the headlight is burned out on the 2065. It had a GE 57 bulb installed. Is that something I can pick up at O'Reily or Auto Zone? Also, I noticed it has a class light lens missing. I will want to replace that, so I figure I'll need to hit a parts supplier for same. Good opportunity to give a bit of support to OGR's advertisers.

Tender...

Removed the shell, and upon applying power and activating the whistle lever on the 1033, saw the whistle relay was being lethargic. By pushing up the contact with a screw driver, the whistle system produced a nice loud whistle, so the motor is okay, but what does that indicate on the relay? Does that indeed sound like a relay? Or, could it be the 1033's whistle circuit?

SO... that's where I'm at for right now. Time to find a headlight bulb, a set of class lights, and figure out what I need to do about the tender relay or the 1033.

Here's a pic of the 2065 after getting the boiler dusted as best I could and reassembled. Note the S scale fella' on the running board. Looks like S scale Engineer/Fireman figures will work fine with these Baldwin Hudsons.

All fer now!

Andre

Warm mildly soapy water is usually ok for general cleaning. When in doubt, clean an area you won't see or is hard to see. That way any mistakes won't be as noticeable or affect the finish too badly.

That was pretty funny, Rusty.

Ozone...

So far, neither of these engines are producing much ozone. Perhaps they'll need to get used to being run again.

OH...

Forgot to mention: Placed one drop of smoke fluid directly onto the heater coils, and sure 'nuf, both produce smoke.

Back in the 90s, I think I recalled modifying these Postwar smoke pots/coils. I think I recall disassembling them, un-soldering the coil, removing one wind of heater wire, and re-soldering. I think I also recall that I would place a disc of fiberglass under the coil and thus have it better adapted for liquid smoke fluid? Does this sound right?

Andre

RD:

Thanks for the input. I figure the paint will be fine, it's the numbers I would worry about.

HOWEVER... I'm about to decide to just leave 'em be. They look great as is... and what little dust remains in the tighter quarters simply looks like light weathering. I'm think I'm going to be fine with some "patina" and character that will be found on the various pieces I will be acquiring.

Speaking of weathering...

Nah... that's best discussed another time. Won't be long and it'll be supper time here in my neck of the woods!

Maybe I'll blither on about weathering/etc later after supper or sumpthin'.

Andre

I will throw a pic of 2055 up, though.

Take a gander at how it cleaned up, and the remaining dust and oily dust/whatever on the rods...

In all, I think it looks mighty fine, and sort of like an "in service" steam engine of the late-40s early-50s.

In my mind's eye, my "vision" for any future 3-rail layout is to reflect a working railroad using the scenery and the trains to carry off the impression. Thus, this "gritty" look of 2055 will be absolutely fine, don't you think?

Andre

@laming posted:

...2065 seems to bind up noticeably going around an 027 curve. The 2055 does not. 

Both were designed for and sold with O27 track.  But these are 70-year-old toys, and who knows what they've been subjected to since!  Lionel's quality control was good but not perfect, and the variation could be due to electrical or mechanical differences.  I'm guessing that it's mechanical.

Your 2055 shows quite a bit of wear on its wheels, so it was well-loved and broken in.  The 2065 may still be new-ish, or maybe it was always a reluctant runner sentenced to the shelf by it's original owner for that reason.  At a minimum you should make sure that nothing in the valve gear, side rods, etc., is binding.  Does the problem occur both clockwise and counter-clockwise?

Turn the wheels by hand and look for tight spots, chipped teeth, etc.  Are all drive wheels secure on their axles?  Is there excess slop in the spur gear train along one side of the loco?  How does it compare to your other one?  Are the wheels out of gauge, maybe due to a fall from the table?  A lot of questions, I know.  If it's obvious you'll find it pretty quickly.  If not you might have to try a handful of these to find two or three that run really well.  That's an expensive proposition, but not as much so as it was for me in the 1980s!

I think your proposed mods to the smoke unit are on-target.  Making lots of ozone takes voltage, current, and RPMs!  That will come in the future with long straightaways and longer trains!  It'll be worth the wait :-)

Hi 'Ya Ted!

'Preciate your input.

2065...

Rolled it over in my hand and took a look at the gears/teeth: All present and accounted for. (That's a good thing!) All wheels are tight on the axles, and there is a bit of run-out (side to side) for each axle. (Which I assume there should be some side-to-side run-out?) I don't know what the spec would be for such run-out, and besides I don't have quick access to my feeler gauge to get a measurement on it. All in good time.

Seems to do its hitch thing either clockwise or counter-clockwise, mainly toward the exit of the curve. I suspect there is a bind or a rub somewhere. I also suspect that I can find it eventually. The bind/hitch is most noticeable at lower speeds (obviously). At typical cruising speeds, it's not as noticeable. However, if it can be found, I'll bet I can find it, especially with tips from y'all to help me when I'm stumped.

Tender...

I adjusted the relay contact tabs closer together, but that didn't seem to help when the tender was stationary under power. However as it trailed along behind the 2065, I would periodically try the whistle. It started working intermittently. The more it ran, the more willing it became. It got to where I could just about whistle indefinitely when stationary. However, whether stationary or trailing along behind the engine, it seems like I have to hold my mouth just right and the whistle handle just so for it to sound.

Now, once I hit the "sweet spot" on the handle, it will whistle nigh continually. But, if I go too far with the handle, it quits. Oh, and there does seem to be the volt "spike" that a whistle circuit is supposed to apply to the rails to overcome the resistance of the whistle relay/motor. However, I'm kind of wondering about the lever having to be "just so" in order for the whistle to blow?

In all, I'll eventually get it all sorted out.

I will say that it's awful nice to again be handling hefty Lionel Postwar steam engines and watching them pace around the little test oval. These are some mighty satisfying toys, they are.

Even though my my little Marx 999 from my 25225 set has so many good memories attached to it, the quality difference between the little Marx and one of the Hudson's is quite startling. These Lionel Hudson's are built like tanks. (Weigh about as much as one, too!)

All fer now.

Andre

I reckon these engines have got my imagination whirring like steam gin. Couldn't help but clear off the non-3-rail stuff off'n part of the benchwork and put the engines and some cars up there to visualize and do some imagining.

If I squint a bit... I can almost see...

"A couple of hard working freight engines are simmering on the ready track down at 12th St. Yard. The Hostler and his helper are giving the 2065 the final going-over to make sure she's ready for the evening westbound "Hot Shot" freight she's called to be on. She'll have meat reefers and all sorts of high-priority cars tied to her apron strings when she gets the "Highball". Sister engine 2055 will be on the Night Freight later that night. 'Course, the Night Freight's not nearly as glamorous a role as 2065 drew, instead of struttin' her stuff like the 2065, she'll be blowin' her stack off as she's sluggin' her way up Sheffield Hill. In the background can be seen the boxcars the Bottoms Switcher spotted just this afternoon. They say diesels will be replacing these grand machines "soon"... but for now, it's coal smoke and steam down at 12th St Yard."

Andre

Andre,

I have two or three transformers that had/have had the same problem:  if the handle isn't in *just* the right position, no joy.  I also have one whose throttle is the same way:  go past the sweet spot, and the party shuts down.

palallin:

Understood! I recall the same on both ZW's I've owned: Had to hold the whistle activator "just so".

S SCALE FIGURES

So I dug through my old stash of leftover S scale stuff. Found several more S scale figures, so thought I'd see what I could do with them. These figures came from the NZ firm "Railmaster". Therefore, their attire wasn't what you would typically see in the center of the USA during the late-40s/early-50s. (That falls outside my "Givens 'n Druthers".)

I guess I was bored, but I set in to "Americanize" them. I began by filing off the squarish billed hats most had on. Some I converted into "baseball-type" hats, others into "Scally/Ascot" hats. One had an odd looking long coat on and the same square-ish looking hat... so I used my rail nippers to nip away portions of the jacket tail, then filed to reshape the legs/etc to look like the fella was wearing a mid-length jacket. Same treatment of his hat, too. Ended up filing it to reflect the "ball cap" look. This figure is much reduced in size from the others, so I figure he can represent a youth.

ANYWAY...

That time sink filled, I brought them in and placed them about to see what I thought...

My conclusion:

S scale figures will work nicely with the "traditional" sized trains I have in mind. You may think they look a bit small... but try putting a seated one inside the minuscule cabs these Baldwin Hudson's have!  (You discover very quickly just how "imagineered" Lionel's Baldwin Hudson is!) I'm hoping to find plastic S scale figures that are seated to use for Engineer's and Firemen in the various engines I hope to roster, 'cause it's much easier to modify plastic figures than white metal!

All fer now!

Andre

Just had to get a copy of the Bantam book Model Railroading, so I ordered a copy online yesterday from the All Aboard Train Shoppe mentioned above by N5CJonny. I ordered the 1950 first edition version. It looks like there are still a few various editions available on their website. I never had this book, but wish I would have when I was starting to build my Lionel layout in the early fifties. I was 10 years old in 1951 and it started on my bedroom floor with an oval of track, a couple of Marx signals, a Plasticville church, log cabin and a Lionel set 1469WS that included the 2035 locomotive. After receiving another set a couple of years later, which included UP silver & gray 2023 Alcos, I think my mom got tired of me setting up my little empire on the bedroom floor so my dad had a carpenter friend build a table for the basement, 5 X 9 plywood, which I believe was more readily available for ping-pong tables back then. That board, combined with two very old (and warped) wooden tables that came out of a truck stop diner, became my little world for the next couple of years. From then on it was, come home from school, go down in the basement and work on the railroad. It wasn't great, but I did it all by myself, and I was proud to have friends over and run it with me. My first train was actually a Marx wind-up set when I was 15 months old, followed by an electric Marx set a few years later. I have little, to no memory at all, of the Marx trains but thanks to a couple of photos of my bedroom floor layout and only one of my basement layout, I do recall how much fun I had with Lionel trains. Like so many on here, I'm glad I got hooked on the scent of ozone at a very early age.

 Love this thread Andre. Very interesting.

I was about to ask who made the figures that have appeared in your photos Andre.

Now I know the answer, it was you. Nice work!

Hi Jerry!

Glad you're enjoying this thread with me!

Bantam Book:

Yer gonna' love it. Lots of cool nostalgia resides therein.

Your Marx set:

IF you can scan/post your picture that includes your Marx set, I'll bet our (OGR's) Marx Maniacs can identify it for you! They helped me to know what I had as a youngster, and once I knew, I was able to find a complete set in very good condition on The Bay!

Of your first layout, you said:

"It wasn't great, but I did it all by myself, and I was proud to have friends over and run it with me."

Bingo! Those are two key points: You made it yourself and interacted with your friends because of it.

That right there is why I am SO glad I was raised during the era I was raised in. I pity kids today that are so engrossed in a virtual existence (texting, Tubing, Twitting, FB, etc, etc,) that they don't know the joy of hands-on creating something one's self, or the fun of interacting with your friends with a common interest, playing games, using one's (or corporate) imagination (like "Cowboys n' Indians", or "Army", etc), on and on. Our culture at that time encouraged imagination, developing motor skills, systematic thinking, problem solving and such as that. Aren't you glad you were raised during that time?

Andre

Laming posted

Trumptrain!

You hit the nail straight on the head! Looking forward to the day I can fill a room with ozone... even if its only from a locomotive circling an oval on the kitchen table!

BTW: What make of trumpet you play? "Way back when" (Jr. High, mid-60s) I played trumpet. Had a Bach Stradivarius. I understand that was quite a trumpet. It must have been, for I made the mistake of leaving it at school in the band cabinet only once. It was stolen. Ended up taking the insurance $$ and buying a bass guitar and amp (renting a trumpet to finish the school year). Played bass ever since.

Trumpets? What does that have to do with Postwar ozone??? (I'm amazing. SO hard for me to not drift in a topic.) Sheesh. Back to my topic at hand...

Andre - I'll be back in the train room soon tonight, smelling ozone and enjoying post war trains.... snapping some photos too!  I'll be running a passenger trains using Sante Fe stream line cars by Lionel which I bought in 1964.    Good luck with your twin 2065's!   Btw - Yes I play Bach Stradavarious trumpet ( I have 17 trumpets in various keys, 6 of which are Bach Stradavarious ).    

Andre,  Can't wait to get that book. Thank you for relating your experience with it.

Unfortunately I have no photos showing my electric Marx trains but I'm guessing it was a 9923 set with a Spam can transformer, because that's the only thing I remember about it. I remember coming home from school one day to find that the transformer no longer worked because somehow my mother had burned it up while running the train for a friend. No problem, I think it was soon replaced. I'm sure that transformer was used in more than one Marx set, but I saw a 9923 set that I liked in an antique store many years ago around Christmas time, so I bought it. I don't have very much Marx but I do love it, and I really like your set.

Yes I am very thankful that I was raised during that era. Wouldn't trade it for any other.

Cont...

Okay... so I just got done with some 3-rail tinkering, and I'm in a gabby mood.  SO, I'm going to breach a subject that is a love/hate relationship among 3-railers. Some of 'ya love it... some of 'ya don't. That subject is...

WEATHERING

In my past 3-rail excursions, weathering wasn't even considered. At the time, I sort of liked the "clean and pristine" look on my 3-rail stuff. In fact, I sought out such Postwar pieces. My longest term model railroad friend that I've been friends with since '69, also happens to like 3-rail. During my 3-rail years when we would go to train meets together (remember those?), he didn't mind one iota to purchase stuff that had lots of "play were" on the pieces. I didn't particularly care for such pieces. No, instead, during my 3-rail indulging that took place throughout most of the 1990s, I was more of a collector with a purpose: All engines had to have a KC connection. (Or could be generic, i.e. "Lionel Lines".) That was about it. I didn't have any pretensions of a permanent 3-rail layout, instead just satisfied to collect and run them on temporary layouts set up for that purpose. (And broke down and stored when not.)

Understand that my "nice and shiny" preference for my 3-rail was directly opposite of my scale modeling, where pretty much everything has to look used and "natural" looking. (Ever since I was a kid. For as a youngster, I would use talcum powder to add white streaking to some of my boxcars so they would look like some of the cars at yards in KC I would see with such an effect!) Essentially there's no exceptions: Everything is weathered, or will be. In fact, my efforts with my Kansas City & Gulf theme in "Wienie Scale" () reflects a railroad running through the Ozarks in 1964 that has undergone bankruptcy and is now in the process of trying to reorganize. This "bankrupt" aspect was mainly incorporated so I could have plausibility for modeling many of engines in the aging KC&G diesel fleet as quite worn and tired. (I enjoy weathering effects.)

Now here I am, seriously looking at a very real possibility of a 3-rail layout. And unlike my previous 3-rail experiments, this attempt has been given a lot more thought concerning my "Givens 'n Druthers" based on discoveries of 3-rail and me from my previous 3-rail attempts.

CLEAN SLATE

So, if you'll pardon the play on words, I have a "clean slate" as to how I will do 3-rail.

That means, seeing as I only have two pieces of rolling stock (both 6464 boxcars, one Postwar, and one "modern" release) the slate is pretty much clean as whether I will be okay with pieces that are very "play worn".

This much I know for a fact: When I mentally envision a future 3-rail layout, all the scenic elements (track, structures, etc) contain weathering. Everything. That so, I find that I now do not have a problem at all obtaining pieces that have lots of "play wear". (Scratches, fading, poor lettering, etc.)  SO, that is "new" for me: I'm fine with play worn pieces. In fact, I think they look like "weathered" pieces and add character to each individual piece and, get this, they are can actually be preferred.

BUT...

Would I now go so far as to entertain the idea of actually applying weathering to some of the future pieces I will be purchasing?

Here it gets kind of weird. It's kind of a "yes and no" answer:

* Yes, I'm seriously considering adding some weathering to "new" pieces.

* No, I'm not wanting to weather them to the point they look like they're ready for the junk yard.

Instead of the junk yard modeling that I see so much in HO, what I will want is for the overall scene when viewing the layout to look "natural".

To do that, in view of my "Givens 'n Druthers", the equipment will need to look "less than" brand spanking new. (There can, and will be, exceptions. We'll get to that in a bit.) That is, when you look at a yard full of rolling stock on my 3-rail effort, I want the entire scene to reflect something similar to what you'd see in one of Jack Delano's color photos.

Now, if you're not familiar with the work of Jack Delano, and you would like to take a quick view of some of Jack Delano's railroad photos, hit the link below, and within a very few pictures, you'll have a couple scenes of urban rail yards:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ph...-yards-1940s/571924/

IF you have taken a look, then I'm sure you noticed one overriding tone: Grime. Perhaps you also noted there really weren't any "rust bucket" cars that grabbed your attention, instead, everything is grimy, not  rust bucket. Why is that?

Simple: Steam power.

Steam power produced copious amounts of soot as well as cinders.

Why is this observation important?

Well, if you'll recall, I will be aiming at using traditional equipment to reflect the late-1940s/early-1950s. This is because my "Givens 'n Druthers" choices have influenced me to attempt portraying urban railroad scenes. (In my case, the KC area.) Now, if I want to reflect such scenes effectively in my modeling... then I'll need lots of grime.

That pretty much decides for me that if I want my future effort to evoke mental scenes such as are seen within Jack Delano's photos... I will need to grime things up. Not everything, mind you, but the overall tone when viewing my future 3-rail layout should reflect soot-covered equipment as well as on the nearby supporting cast (structures). Namely: Grime.

Yes, there will some exceptions to the "Grime With Time" rule. For example, rolling stock that is to reflect a relatively new car. Then there's the road diesels, many of those will just about be brand spankin' new, so those "almost new" diesel engines will get minimal grime.

That so...

Prior to this essay, I just spent about 30 minutes experimenting with this concept. I took one of my boxcars, the newest of the lot (a modern era 6464), and decided to try to add some grime, and make the car look a bit more "natural" and not like a brand spanking new car. Here's the car (right) sitting beside my Postwar M&StL 6464 just like it came out of the box:

Note how bright the white appears and its overall pristine condition. Also note that by virtue of its age, the M&StL 6464 is already looking pretty stinkin' good "as is"!  Anyway, here's the same car with a bit of grime added:

And a down on look:

And an up close and personal look:

Yes, the differences are subtle. (When viewed in person, it is more readily discerned.)

Look at the rivet strips: See the shadow of "grime" along each one? Also note the roof has a subtle application of grime as well as the door and ends. Even the white of the "ERIE" herald has some grime applied to it in order to tone it down so it's not as startling. Grime is everywhere, but not heavily applied.

I've also added very slight touches of older rust (as opposed to newer rust, the two are different, with many shades in between) at select points along the floor rivets as well as touches under the door rails. Also note there's some older rust on the couplers and where the springs ride on the trucks. Seeing as these are plain bearing (commonly called "friction" bearings) trucks, then the cap areas and the wheels need to reflect being oily/greasy. (They were packed with "waste" and soaked in journal oil.)

SO, there you have it. I'm seriously considering this approach this time around. At this point, all of the above weathering is powdered chalk with no fixative applied. SO, should I decide against it, it can be wiped off and/or washed off (the plastic parts).

I'll leave it like it is for now, and give it the test of time, but I'm seriously leaning in this direction so the entire scene will look "natural" to my eyes.

Thoughts?

Oh, and what about engines? Same treatment?

Well now, that's an interesting question. I'll blather on about that in a future installment!

All fer now!

Andre

Thank you for sharing that Jack Delano link, amazing photos!!

Personally I've never weathered my rolling stock.  I'm an MPC kid.  By the time we added any Postwar to our collection, it was already "weathered" by the previous owner(s), storage conditions, etc.  As toy trains go, it looked plenty realistic to us! 

Resale value shouldn't be a consideration, because operator-grade Postwar is plentiful.   Given the demographics of our community, supply and demand, prices will only go down from here.  Besides they're YOUR trains, so do what makes YOU happy!

With Tinplate rail being as tall as it is, I agree that painting the sides rust brown, adding some kind of roadbed, etc., greatly enhances realism.

One thing I've noticed is that modern era trains have a very different paint finish, shiny brightwork, etc.  So here's my challenge and recommendation: If you decide to allow anything made in the last 50 years, don't weather it as you would a scale model.  Instead, repaint, dullcote, etc., as needed so that it harmonizes with the Postwar!  I don't have those skills, but that's what I would try to do. 

Ask yourself: Do you want your trains to look as realistic as possible, accepting that they began life as toys?  Or do you acknowledge that they are charming toys, realistic in a certain sense, but try to "homogenize" and present them in a realistic environment?  My goal was always the latter.  What's yours?

"Now, if you're not familiar with the work of Jack Delano, and you would like to take a quick view of some of Jack Delano's railroad photos, hit the link below, and within a very few pictures, you'll have a couple scenes of urban rail yards:"

https://www.theatlantic.com/ph...-yards-1940s/571924/

Hi Andre,

Just checked them out, these Jack Delano 1940's era pictures are in color.  Pure gold!  Thanks for the link!

Here you go Andre. I am a Delano fan also.

https://www.loc.gov/photos/?fa...,+jack&q=FSA/OWI

Pete

As noted I am also fan, especially of this picture. Note the cab number on this engine, then check out the first NW2 engine Lionel offered in the 1949 catalog.

Pete

Another aspect of the scene in your photo, Andre, is the variety or sizes, subtypes, and even eras all mixed together in service.  The modern unit train made up of identical cars did not yet exist (except in rare and unique cases). 

Too often today we value a uniformity in size and details that simply didn't exist.  If we want to reflect the reality of that time, we can take advantage of that freedom to use a wide variety of rolling stock.

Home from church... lunch et... time to read n' post up some replies!

Pete:

Thanks for that LoC link! I will likely hit that this afternoon to see if I can glean some Delano color railroad photos that I don't have in my Delano collection!

AND... 'Ya done real good on that scene! All of it. What did you do for an SW1?

palallin:

You are sooo correct. Though 6464's will be my largest boxcars, I also intend to run 6454's and such. My biggest puzzle right now is what to do for refrigerator cars, outside braced boxcars (and OB gons?), and double sheathed boxcars. I really would like to include such cars, but I need to think on the "how" part quite a bit. I don't think I have a real problem with the thought of heavy kit-bashing/modifying existing models so as to have a few representative cars. BUT, by the same token, given the vast selection of Evergreen Styrene shapes, I might consider some simplistic scratch-built shells to fit existing frames/trucks. Quick example: A 6464 frame could be used for a "40 foot" car, and the 6454 frame could be used for a "36 foot" car. Also, working in O is much more forgiving than HO, and building equipment to "traditional" detail levels would also be much more forgiving. Something for me to think about as I'm slowly amassing equipment and mentally "finalizing" my concept and approach.

Rusty:

SO true. Whereas John Allen is indeed one of my model railroad "heroes", and though I respect the work of George Sellios, when it comes to my typical modeling approach, I tend to avoid such extremities* in regards to "caricature". (Though I've tried a bit of it in my past modeling evolution.) I think the key to what I'm envisioning is "moderation". Things weathered enough to look natural... but not overdone to the point of caricature. That's not easy.

* Disclaimer: My HO theme, the 1964 era Kansas City & Gulf was created to allow for heavy weathering in the realm of the diesels and such, for in my youth years I was around junky looking diesels most typically via the Frisco, KCS, Rock Island, and Mop, along with innumerable railroad books that have photos of the "failing years" of the 60s into the 70s. SO, on my KC&G diesels, eroded and worn paint, oil leaks, touches of rust, grime, and soot are in evidence, sometimes in heavy evidence, if that particular unit is being modeled as one of the more neglected engines. (Each road had such examples during the "failing years".) However, such KC&G models are not "caricatures", they actually represent engines and effects I've seen on the prototypes. Also, I will not be modeling a bankrupt railroad in 1964 with my 3-rail, instead I'll be modeling scenes such as the above, where cinder n' soot are the main weathering agents.

All fer now!

Andre

Andre,  I always thought you've had some of the most realistic weathering out there.  I never viewed it as a caricature.  It's clear you have a good understanding on how this stuff gets down and dirty in the real world, no doubt due to your railroading and railfaning experience.

Anyhow, if you continue down the postwar vortex, the dings, dents and handling of the past is almost "instant weathering.

Rusty

Rusty:

Thank you so much for your kind words about my KC&G stuff. Sadly, every KC&G engine that's in paint (and now in use) was painted/decaled/weathered back in the mid-90s. Though I have many more KC&G engines ready for paint (modified as desired, detailed, DCC/Sound installed/etc) I have yet to fire up the airgun and get started. I just can't seem to get off high center.

I think it's two primary reasons:

* I'm concerned about my limited supply of Floquil paints in the colors I used most.

* I'm concerned about the defunct decal sources I used.

Ah well, it is what it is.

For any 3-rail that I may paint, my thought process is entirely different: I'll use "close enough" colors from automotive/etc rattle cans (run through my airbrush) and whatever decals I can now find that's "good enough". Totally different mindset.

Yes!  Dents, dings, and scratches on pieces acquired with same will play right into the hands of some appropriate rust-colored tube acrylics and a brush!

Actually, this all sounds quite fun, as well as being a new frontier/medium for me: Weathered traditional 3-rail? Custom traditional-sized 3-rail rolling stock??

Andre

2055/2065 Test Loop Runs.

Okay, so I mentioned that both engines run, and run pretty nice, but the 2065 has a slight binding halfway through the curve. The 2065 is likely binding once it's actually in the curve, but momentum helps it enter the curve before it begins to slow.

I've set up a small test loop and thought I'd shoot a couple of short videos to illustrate how each engine performs.

First, the 2065:

Next, the 2055:

As you can see, the 2055 will run smoothly around the test speed at an acceptably constant speed (given the low throttle setting AND considering that it's a toy). Not so the 2065. It requires slightly more volts than the 2055 to keep from stalling while negotiating the curve. (Most pronounced upon exit of the curve.)I've checked for any obvious issues, but have yet to find anything that would be causing this. The side and main rods seem free: No binds could be seen/felt in the rods when manually pushing along and checking the rods for tightness at certain portions of the rotating cycle. Also, when slowly rotating the drives manually by hand, I don't feel any "tight" spots in the rotation, etc.

Open to suggestions!

All fer now!

Andre

Check the play of the spur gears between the two engines. My guess is there is a lot more wear on the 2065 bearing surfaces than the 2055. That can allow the gears to rub on the back of the wheels. 

The siderods don't really come into play on the spur gear engines unless the wheels are way out of quarter.

Pete

Thanks for some input Pete.

In your candid opinion, do you think it's something that I need to pursue, or do you think I'm being like a "booger barker" dog that thinks he sees a booger so he's yapping at nothing? In other words, if it was your engine, would you be concerned or would you just run her as she be?

Andre

I have one that needs the gears replaced but still looking for a round tuit.

The wheels have to be pulled to do this and the stud bearings replaced. Its on the list but way down right now.

Pete

First the Reefer question...  Several modern-era companies made 1930s "billboard" reefers which might blend in very well with you postwar rolling stock.  If you want to make the appearance more consistent, you could probably put Postwar trucks on them.  Lionel milk cars are expensive because they are operating cars.  But they might also be a credible stand-in for a prewar refrigerator.

I wouldn't personally be happy with the way the 2065 runs.  The slowing probably won't be as noticeable on your O42 track or when pulling a train.  But I think it should run more consistently, like your 2055 does.  As Pete said- check for slop in the gears, and also compare the wheel gauge, the 2065 might be too wide.

If the cause is worn bearings, replacing them is a heavy "class repair" best left to an experienced service person with the right tools (such as a wheel puller and press.)  I would keep looking for bargains on auction sites, train meets, etc.  You don't even need a whole loco.  If you can get another motor/chassis, swapping it in is easy.  There's a lot of variation in these old locos, I stopped asking why a long time ago.  Some just run better than others.

Since you're willing to alter your rolling stock, consider using some delux plastic Marx.  You can swap Lionel trucks under them.  More variety and alternative bases to start detailing.  Or try the K-Line remolds; those trucks/couplers are already compatible. 

Ah... input!

Pete:

Thanks. I understand: Finding/fixing would not be for the novice Lionel PW enthusiast. (i.e. Me.)

Ted:

Reefers...

I recall I had some K-Line "Classic" reefers that were new tooling and looked like reefers in respect to the doors/etc. I seldom see them when I think to check to see if listed on eBay.

I have considered Lionel's ice car and if I had a "junker" that could be hacked, it could probably be made to look convincing to represent a steel-sided reefer.

2065...

In the video that is about the slowest it would run yet get around the curve dependably. At typical cruising speeds, it does pretty good. I may want to address it, but it might not be "soon". What little running it will get in the foreseeable future won't be enough to make anything "worse". Also, good thinking on picking up a junker with cosmetic issues but could have a decent mechanism.

palallin:

Marx, eh? I hadn't thought of that. Also, I might could use the bodies of cheaper "Scout" cars for hacking. Hm. Sounds to me like I ought amass boxes of junkers to set on the shelves to use for hack jobs!

I'll bet I can come up with some "do-able" cars to use for kit-bashing into various "missing" 1930s type boxcars/reefers/etc. The trick will be determining the path of least resistance.

All:

Did any mfg'er make a traditional-sized outside braced boxcar?

Andre