The space/room your layout occupies

I had that moment too. Built my layout in a small corner not expecting to expand, then the bug kept biting so I needed to figure out a way to build an expansion, caused a challenge and limits the size of locos I can run. Plan well before hand, you will be thankful down the road. If you're thinking about finishing the basement, do it, that feeling won't go away in a few years. I don't plan to be in my house forever so I'm not worried about finishing the basement now. 

Yeah we aren't moving either, sadly I have the layout built...well benchwork,track, wired ect....but I may just stop where I am and rip it out and finish the basement to achieve the look and space that I want.

Layouts don't have to be perfect and they don't necessary have to be permanent. Set your own standards. The main requirement is that you have fun with the hobby, however you want to define it.

Well, I did finish my attic train room first. The layout takes up all the available space (14x39). Some of the bench work was a bear to build and install. Track seemed to take forever to lay. Building the control panel was fun. Fighting burn-out, I'm having to push myself to get this darn thing wired. Too many years into this deal, and still nothing running.

Ace posted:

Layouts don't have to be perfect and they don't necessary have to be permanent. Set your own standards. The main requirement is that you have fun with the hobby, however you want to define it.

Wise words Ace......and very true.

Gilly I hear you and understand, it can get to be very daunting and frustrating at times....keep going, we need to keep the N&W alive.

My first layout was built in an unfinished basement. While I really enjoyed my layout, the basement was just not a very nice place to be for long periods of time. It was dark, somewhat damp, and even with the best scenery I could do at the time, everything looked as dull and dark as that basement.

When we moved, I waited until we had saved enough money to finish the basement before I started my current layout. That took about 6 years. My new train room is bright, dry, comfortable and a nice shade of pale sky blue. I love spending time down there working on the Trenton & Western.

It all depends on what you want. In my opinion, you will not regret making your space a showcase for the layout.

20' X 40' X 20'  L shaped.  A work in progress.

Our 28ft X 24ft with walk-in aisles and five main lines (at present, and expanding to upper level) is in the Train Room my wife had built above the new 3 car garage for me, us.  I was managing a construction site in Terre Haute while this took place back in 2008.  Still a work in progress (aren't they all?) but making more headway since retiring two years ago.  Well, that is, when I am not outside tending to animals and cleaning up the storm damage on property.  But, it is getting better and can always run trains..........

Jesse   TCA  12-68275 

richtrow posted:

It all depends on what you want. In my opinion, you will not regret making your space a showcase for the layout.

That's it exactly,  I really want a great space to enjoy and to showcase the layout!  Right now I'm dealing with a unfinished basement and it's really lacking. 

texastrain posted:

Our 28ft X 24ft with walk-in aisles and five main lines (at present, and expanding to upper level) is in the Train Room my wife had built above the new 3 car garage for me, us.  I was managing a construction site in Terre Haute while this took place back in 2008.  Still a work in progress (aren't they all?) but making more headway since retiring two years ago.  Well, that is, when I am not outside tending to animals and cleaning up the storm damage on property.  But, it is getting better and can always run trains..........

Jesse   TCA  12-68275 

Now that must be a great place to enjoy the trains....I'm jealous. 

I have a 12'x10' empty upstairs bedroom and that's it. One advantage to its relatively smaller size is that it keeps me from spending even more money.

I keep fine tuning it ad infinitum... and I run the trains usually at least 3 times a week.

It is a private space rarely visited by other members of the family.  Some friends and fellow ferroequinologists have stopped by to see it and have coffee.

It is not all that  I could want but it is enough.

I finished my spare room before I started the layout as I wouldn't be able to after a layout was in place.  Being you have so much done on yours, I'd take the time to figure out how to finish the basement without ripping the layout out, or at least figure out how to move the layout so you can move it back in place with minimum amount of rework.

So I'd say add me to the room should be finished camp.

Well I can remove most of the layout in sections without causing much of a problem, some of which I am going to rebuild regardless.  This just really makes me wish that I had been smart and finished the space off first to begin with .    Well live and learn.....

I have a 70s ranch with a 28' x 14' train room.  It occupies what some would call the living/dining room.  I bought the house 10 years ago with this in mind. 

I replaced a acoustic tile ceiling in the dining room, painted, and removed wrought iron dividers which opened up the space.  Old wall-to-wall carpeting was replace with laminate flooring.

The entrance from the entry is only now for viewing while entry is from the kitchen which is closest to the garage/workshop.

All tables are of modular construction an bolted together.

Jan

It sounds like you aren't going to be happy till the room is finished. Doing that is going to make a mess, so is benchwork. I'd get the walls and ceiling out of the way and base the priority of the rest of the things mostly on clean up. Delay carpet as long as you can, unless you like vacuumin a lot. Rosin paper or other heavy  masking 100% over short pile carpet is worth the money for ease of quick cleanups and protection on long runnng jobs IMO. A good reason to build in a modular fashion might be consideration for future renovations of the room.

As most of you know I have a very large layout. It fills the room from wall to wall. All I did before starting the layout was insulate and throw up sheetrock. I didn't even mud it because almost all of it won't be seen since the backdrops cover it.

I raised the floor in the aisles a foot above the concrete. Eventually they will get carpet.

Ten years later the drop ceiling went in with the layout in place.

This is what it looks like now. The plan is to replace the 1/2" OSB floor decking with 3/4"plywood. The carpet won't go in until the scenery is done.

N&W Class J posted:

Have any of you been in the construction phase of your layout and had that moment when you think the room or space your layout will be occupying just doesn't have the look you want?  Or perhaps you began your layout in an unfinished basement such as I have and then stopped and wished you had finished the space off first?  That is the situation I'm finding myself in.  I'm working on a couple of layouts and I had that "Errrrr" moment the other day and wished I had finished the space first, as such I am strongly considering halting construction on the layout and finishing the basement off before proceeding any further.  What are your thoughts on the matter, have you been in this situation yourself?  What did you do or would you do?

Don't feel bad.  The positive thing is you recognized that it needed to be done.  I've been there, done that, have the T-Shirt!  Be sure when you do it, put in extra electrical connections for over-head lighting for the just-in-case situation.  I live by; "It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I finished my basement and put in all the lighting and additional outlets.  But, I've discovered I want additional lighting on scenic high points.  I wish that I would have installed additional junction boxes in the ceiling for the just-in-case, but didn't.

Now the panels have to be removed while over delicate scenery and structures.  I continue to live and learn. 

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

As most of you know I have a very large layout. It fills the room from wall to wall. All I did before starting the layout was insulate and throw up sheetrock. I didn't even mud it because almost all of it won't be seen since the backdrops cover it.

I raised the floor in the aisles a foot above the concrete. Eventually they will get carpet.

Ten years later the drop ceiling went in with the layout in place.

This is what it looks like now. The plan is to replace the 1/2" OSB floor decking with 3/4"plywood. The carpet won't go in until the scenery is done.

AWESOME JOB!

If you do nothing else, at least install good lighting! A beautiful layout can somewhat compensate for an ugly room, but only if you can see it!

Elliot your layout/space is amazing! Wow what a great area!  And Adriatic hit the nail on the head....I won't be happy until the space is finished.   

      Well my plan right now is to pull up the track which will be easy as I didn't solder any of it together and only a few nails here and there are holding it down, then to pull the bench work which I did build in sections that are only screwed together so they can be separated quite easily.  I have a crack in the foundation to seal which I will do first and then wait awhile to be sure it doesn't leak!

      I will then handle the framing, run electrical in the walls and overhead for proper lighting.  I have decided to install a drop ceiling to have relatively quick and easy access up there for any electrical/plumbing needs in the future.  For the lighting what are your thoughts?  I'm thinking about LED lighting that is dim able for various lighting effects and a lower power draw but I'm not sure, I haven't really looked deeply into what's available currently.  The walls will be insulated/dry walled and I'm going to install carpet at some point on top of a sub floor system, I really like the systems that leave an air-gap underneath for obvious reasons...good air movement but again research is needed, your thoughts on this?  I'm planning on beginning this project in the fall and aim for a completion in the spring...completion of the basement that is...not the layout...  

I'm also going to be rebuilding some of the bench work for the layout as well for operational purposes and putting new longer legs on it to increase the height for an improved viewing angle.....eeeeesh I'm tired already....  But in the end it will be a more usable and comfortable space for us and guests.  Now to start drawing up plans for a materials list and for the layout......oooo boy I need a drink.  

I'm 15 years into our "new" house and I'm still waiting to finish my basement and start on my layout. I have a 34x16 "L" shaped space that will be the main layout area. I'm considering a double deck or twice around. I've always felt that I shouldn't start a "permanent" layout unless the space is finished first.

jonnyspeed posted:

I'm 15 years into our "new" house and I'm still waiting to finish my basement and start on my layout. I have a 34x16 "L" shaped space that will be the main layout area. I'm considering a double deck or twice around. I've always felt that I shouldn't start a "permanent" layout unless the space is finished first.

That's a good sized space, definitely a bunch you can do with that.  I just wished I had that thought first. 

A dimmer is a "must" for me. You haven't lived till you have run passenger trains in the dark; dusk and sunrise belong to longhaul freight.

LEDs are going to help offset those transformers running up the bill more. I bet you can even find a controller for sunrise till supper, dusk to dawn effect.

Drop ceiling dust falling off old panels is my only issue with those. You should be able to move light panels around and restyle easily if you plan ahead with extra length of flexconduit and lots of junction options.

Under the layout lights for working the underside and or foot lighting is great. Again there are dimming systems to handle this automatically.

A small loop is what I would do, but why not some point to point action.Just switching and assembling trains when you are bored and too tired to pick up the hammer. You can set up in a night if you keep it simple,  just for a bit; just to keep you "active", and see if switching is "you" while you work. 

Not a set back, an opportunity to step back and improve it. That won't always be easy, forethought to make it possible helps. My little 4x9 table is solid but could be split in two quickly with one cut of a saw and adding four more legs later. The frame is ready and gapped for the cut. Most of the wires on terminals. 

Adriatic posted:

A dimmer is a "must" for me. You haven't lived till you have run passenger trains in the dark; dusk and sunrise belong to longhaul freight.

LEDs are going to help offset those transformers running up the bill more. I bet you can even find a controller for sunrise till supper, dusk to dawn effect.

I'd love to find a system with such a controller, especially if it's multi-colored to transition from yellow-white daylight to dawn/dusk pinks & purples and the deep blue of night. 

Currently re-doing the part of our basement that was a kids' playroom.  Carpet being torn out, floor to be painted.  Already got walls painted.  Current task is getting the astro-turf glue up w/a scraper & heat gun.  I get the back part (to start) for my layout.  Definitely happy I'm getting this out of the way first.  I don't need totally "finished," but a cleaner look is always nice.

Adriatic posted:

A dimmer is a "must" for me. You haven't lived till you have run passenger trains in the dark; dusk and sunrise belong to longhaul freight.

That is exactly why I am wanting the ability to dim the lighting, which I don't have currently.

LEDs are going to help offset those transformers running up the bill more. I bet you can even find a controller for sunrise till supper, dusk to dawn effect.

Now that would be a cool addition...hmmmm I'm going to have to start looking for that.

Drop ceiling dust falling off old panels is my only issue with those. You should be able to move light panels around and restyle easily if you plan ahead with extra length of flexconduit and lots of junction options.

I had the same thought but I really want to maintain access to the plumbing and such...that will just be something that I will have to contend with.

Under the layout lights for working the underside and or foot lighting is great. Again there are dimming systems to handle this automatically.

I hadn't given that much thought at this point but that is another great idea.

A small loop is what I would do, but why not some point to point action.Just switching and assembling trains when you are bored and too tired to pick up the hammer. You can set up in a night if you keep it simple,  just for a bit; just to keep you "active", and see if switching is "you" while you work. 

Not a set back, an opportunity to step back and improve it. That won't always be easy, forethought to make it possible helps. My little 4x9 table is solid but could be split in two quickly with one cut of a saw and adding four more legs later. The frame is ready and gapped for the cut. Most of the wires on terminals. 

Oh I'm going to maintain some kind of micro layout until I'm done...no way am I going to wait months to run something....

Fridge56Vet posted:

Currently re-doing the part of our basement that was a kids' playroom.  Carpet being torn out, floor to be painted.  Already got walls painted.  Current task is getting the astro-turf glue up w/a scraper & heat gun.  I get the back part (to start) for my layout.  Definitely happy I'm getting this out of the way first.  I don't need totally "finished," but a cleaner look is always nice.

That is a nice space and is looking good.   That is what I should have done first....live and learn.

N&W Class J posted:

jonnyspeed posted:

I'm 15 years into our "new" house and I'm still waiting to finish my basement and start on my layout. I have a 34x16 "L" shaped space that will be the main layout area. I'm considering a double deck or twice around. I've always felt that I shouldn't start a "permanent" layout unless the space is finished first.

That's a good sized space, definitely a bunch you can do with that.  I just wished I had that thought first. 

It all depends on perspective and your desired outcome. 15 years ago I was a 3 railer and I thought I would have more than enough room for the layout I wanted. Today I'm into 2 rail and much more prototypical operations than just loop running like I was in 3 rail. Once you start adding up the space it takes to model more to scale and less "toy-like" it shrinks the space in a hurry.  Traveling at a scale 20 mph a train would make a "loop" of that space in well under 3 minutes. Not so big anymore... Big prototypes like PRR P70 cars and scale 12 car consists are out. A train like that would be over 21 feet long. So that's why I focus on smaller prototypes to maximize the space.

I'm still working on plans, but I'm drawing inspiration from Bob Bartizek's loop to loop 3 times around layout. He really gets the most out of his available space.

Good luck.

N&W Class J posted:

jonnyspeed posted:

I'm 15 years into our "new" house and I'm still waiting to finish my basement and start on my layout. I have a 34x16 "L" shaped space that will be the main layout area. I'm considering a double deck or twice around. I've always felt that I shouldn't start a "permanent" layout unless the space is finished first.

That's a good sized space, definitely a bunch you can do with that.  I just wished I had that thought first. 

Hey, I have you beat, we moved into our current house 20 years ago and the basement refinish still is not done. 

Seriously, with basements unless you happen to have one in its native state that is bright and cheery, I recommend finishing it off no matter how basic, things like having enough outlets, lighting, making sure the basement is dry and comfortable in all kinds of weather will make enjoying the trains a lot more, especially since you will be spending a lot of time down there working. You don't have to go fancy, simply sheetrock on the walls, maybe insulating the ceiling, some sort of comfortable flooring will make it work better. 

When building a layout it's kinda like having a 'rock' in your shoe!  Sure you can get by for awhile, BUT, that 'rock' is always on your mind!  Whatever is causing your 'rock' STOP and take care of it, otherwise it may eat at you and destroy some of the joy of building your dream.  Russ

One thing I like above mine being a room above the 3 car garage is that I do not have any plumbing above the ceiling.  I have added additional lighting and ceiling fans due to the easy access in the attic.  And, the attic makes a good storage space, close by, for boxes as they are emptied.  I had the contractor add two extra outlets on each wall for easy access to power, and with the two extreme left/right outlets have dimmer switches.  These are for dimming the hidden lights shining upward on the back wall for simulation of dawn/full daylight/dusk lighting.  Perhaps find a electronic/digital method to do so later, but, this works fine for now and is easy to do..... always best to KISS it in my opinion.  Life gets complicated enough as is, why make it so for running trains?  As for when I finished the room, I put down wooden tongue/groove for ease of getting around on a creeper under the layout and easy cleanup.  Had contractor paint walls a sky blue, always have clear skies!... or may add some clouds/backdrops later.  For comfort, I have two wall mounted heat/AC units on West wall, below display shelves.

Jesse   TCA 

To answer Chris' question I believe one needs to consider other factors such as your age, how long you plan to stay, your budget, family priorities,  your layout goal in size & theme, what does the area look like now, do you plan to entertain, are you a loner, and many other considerations etc.

Awhile ago when much younger I did a very expensive basement overhaul including a 1 foot dig out for increased ceiling height., then the next layout I built an extension on my garage with very thick insulation, high efficient HVAC, Daylight  lighting etc.  Now older and just a tad wiser in my new ranch which has a rather basic clean & dry 2k sq ft  basement I am just painting the walls with tall mountains down the road.  I am purposing to keep the 8' ceiling open for service access.  I finished off a previous basement and later wished I kept it open for service problems.

My only cautionary thought is to keep your project within a manageable size and intricacies. 

Jonnyspeed-  Very good points, needs do change as mine have.  I have some "plans" for the layout....

Chiloquinruss-  That's really a good way to put it actually....and accurate. 

Texastrain-  I like the way you thought ahead with the extra outlets, flooring choice ect...it looks to have really paid off for you as that is really a great space to retreat to and run some trains.

Tom you bring up some excellent points, well to begin I'm 43 and we are planning to stay where we are for quite some time.  Now other than the layout the rest of the room will be used as a family room..?couch, TV....ect.... nothing extravagant.          The basement is an "L" shape,  I'm going to complete the framing, then move on to the electrical...outlets and lighting and so on.  The walls will be drywall with a drop ceiling so I can retain access to the plumbing and other stuff overhead, lighting will be LED, I'm also going to add an exhaust fan for the occasions that smoke is used which isn't very often but it won't hurt to have it.  The flooring will be carpet in the family room portion....I'm not sure yet on what I will use by the layout.  

And I want to say thanks again guys for all the advise and suggestions,  it really helps me a bunch.

If you are going to build your layout using legs to support the benchwork install the flooring prior to construction and install protective covering on the new floor covering during construction. 

For protective coveering I have used Masonite sheeting, appliance cardboard each over 8 mill poly / plastic sheeting

Where possible I prefer to build around the wall, canterlivering off the wall and keep the floor unobstructed  from baseboard to baseboard, then floor covering installation can be held off until the majority of construction is completed.

If you stay with around the wall benchwork this will leave a generous portion of the area open for other functions.

I don't subscribe to thought that have been shared on other threads that you MUST finish a basement to enjoy you trains.  However, if an unfinished basement is a distraction from enjoying your trains, I think you need to go ahead and finish it off.

We have a split foyer house with a nice size basement.  When we built the house 23 years ago, the plan was always to finish the basement.  Well, with one thing of another, that has never happened.  With plans now to move in 4 - 5 years, I have come to realization that I never will finish the basement.  I will say, that although we have way too much crap down there (that we are slowly trying to get ride of) it is a nice dry, open area which is perfect for a layout.

Even though we are moving in 4+ years, I am rebuilding the layout so that I can enjoy my trains.  When completed the layout will be about 26' x 15', taking up the north wall of the house.  This will not be a scenic layout, so not finishing the basement doesn't really bother me. 

That said, I did make some minor improvements to one corner of the basement.  I installed electrical outlets and drywall on two of the corner walls so that I could mount my 70's receiver and turntable, two in the wall speakers, and a tv.  So, while I don't technically have a finished basement, I have made minor improvements to the basement.

Jim

I took the time to paint the joists, rewire, frame. insulate, drywall and paint the floor with garage floor paint. The room is much warmer/cooler and more inviting. The room itself is 24x16.

I have a similar situation.   I started to finish my basement and the budget ran low about half way through the process.  I decided to take a break from the project.  During that time I had a life-altering event occur.    To keep my mind off of the situation I took the remaining budget and build a 16x8 layout that is attached to secondary 8x8 layout.    Thankfully, the lord blessed me and helped me through my situation.   However; I now have a huge layout with a partially finished basement.  I also did not finish the drywall as I was in a hurry to build the layout.   Even worse, I used the purple water-board for drywall since I was finishing a basement.   Thus, I have a purple background.  I'm the only one who seems to mind the purple background.  My friends and family love the layout.   I'm not sure if I'll ever finish the basement at this point.  It would be a huge pain to tear down the layout. 

Old Basement
20' x 20' "Michigan Style" with layout built on the foundation ledge at about 4' 10" Dark, dirty and slightly damp, 

New Basement
24' x 30'  Dry, bright and climate controlled.
Lots of lens distortion in that panorama shot! I don't think Atlas actually makes curved truss bridges.

It was totally worth the 6 year wait to finish this space before I began construction. It's a pleasant place to work let alone a great space for the layout once it's "done"

Just a note to consider, and not begin another topic.  I have built my layout only 27" off of floor elevation.  This is for several reasons:  1. trains do not have as far to fall before impact, should that occur.   2.  can easily access all wiring, etc. under layout table on a creeper and it is at arms (bent) length.  easy on the neck and back, not craning neck to look up, back is flat on comfortable creeper.  3.  good viewing height for all... kids can see without being picked up or stand on stool/platform (fall hazard).  4. Easy to reach across layout from any side and have good view of reason for it.  5. have plenty of distance above layout table for future expansion of upper levels and scenery  6.  Easier for cats to get down from table (for now anyway, will change as scenery is being done).

Jesse    TCA

Here's my 20ft by 50ft basement with out the dirt around it.

I have the layout at approx. 48 inches off of the floor.  Also have a work area and restroom, bed and a TV to watch trains DVD's .  These are old pictures of the layout.