Time to give up on MTH?

Larry;

Sounds like you have a valid beef.  I'd write directly to Mike Wolf and see if you get that kind of response from him.

I'm a member of the MTHRRC--with a very low membership number!--because I like some of the offerings for club members.  I don't buy MTH locs, but that's another short story.

 

I find it difficult to believe that MTH can't get the catalogs out within 5-6 weeks of their release.  What gives?

The same thing happened a few years ago and enough people complained on this forum and thru e-mail that MTH pushed back its preorder date, but that not the point. Why should we have to go thru this time and again. MTH seems to have grown too big too fast that it doesn't care about preserving its loyal customer base. It will just get new ones.

Larry S

Isn't the MTH catalog already available on line? I understand your complaint regarding being a club member and not recieveing a catalog, having said that, I get free (lionel) catalogs from the larger mail order dealers I oreder from regularly. I think MTH will turnaround soon once they get their tooling/manufacturer issues in order. It was only a year or two ago that those of us Lionel fans felt offerings were bleak at best. Obviously Lionel has ramped up production, hand in there,Im sure MTH will too.

I paid for a catalog at York last year and was supposedly put in the MTH mailing list, noting yet

Chris they put you on the list alright.  The naughty list!

If they are having overseas troublest,that should not effect the loyal consumer or club member. Just be honest with them and tell them straight. All this double talk by a company to its consumer base or as stated here about the catalogs being given out to rr club members at a set time and then saying something different later is just bad pr. If they are having overseas troubles just let your loyal customers in the loop and tell them honestly what they are and how you are working to fix them and how this will effect or delay the products on order or in the future. Keeping you customers informed and giving them straight talk is IMO better than telling a half truth to cover up something!

I have been an MTH customer from day one with them.  I made fairly expensive purchases from just about the first 10 catalogs and a little less as time went on.  I used to get a free catalog as a loyal customer but then the club was started and I assume that only club members get them now.  I don't join anybody's club to buy trains just on general principles.  Club's may have some benifits for some but I'm not interested.  However, if you paid to belong to the club, it is only right that you should get a catalog in a timely fashion I would think.

 

Ray

I agree in a different way. The online catalog is fine with me. I am a print guy but find I have too many catalogs already...just threw out some tonight.

But I do feel MTH of the early 1990's, the company that got me into O scale, has changed greatly....but so have many other things. As a kid K Mart was the store. Now they are down to a fraction of what they were....the didn't change with the times. I now feel WBB is on the rise. The 10 Wheeler is a great loco and fits the current economic climate better than MTH offerings.  The soon to be here GP-30 looks FANTASTIC....and just a few more road names and they will have a huge hit! I can see Bachman making WBB as big a line as their HO line easy! And it feels like MTH did in 1992. NOT a slam on MTH I think they are going after a different market...but at times that can be risky.

I've been an MTH club member for a while.  Not a charter member, but since its second year of existence.  It appears that MTH still needs to learn to appreciate or respect more its prime customers.  MTH needs to better organize themselves.  The past 5 years I picked up my Spring and Fall catalogs at York along with the York car.  I filled out the catalog pickup form for which I thought they would take my name off the mailing list for the York provided catalogs.  Well, a month or two passes and low and behold, my mailbox is stuffed with the same catalogs I picked up at York.  I end up giving the extra catalogs away to a couple of the neighborhood children or drop them off at the local library's periodical room.  The cost to provide duplicate catalogs plus the related shipping must be high, especially since I'm probably not the only one who ends up with duplicates.

 

The past three years I lowered my membership level to basic due to the recent club car offerings did not interest me.  MTH has not updated or provided their club track planning software for the past two years.  The MTH club member website (as well as their multiple regular website) is still a navigational nightmare that needs a complete cleanup.

 

I believe this niche industry can be challenging for these companies and some employee resources are not available like they were in the fast growing 1990's, but there comes a time when the customer/club member will determine that the membership is not worth the cost and not join or renew ...or worse lose customers like in Larry S.'s post above.  If the catalog to members is not a current priority, I'd presume that the customer/member may find other priorities (or MTH competitors) to guide their spending.

 

I never give up on any of the manufacturers. I may not be happy with the delays, etc. but it is no big deal. If you saw it on line, you do not need the catalog to order. I just got my Lionel catalog yesterday. I am sure the MTH will come in time. I am not loosing sleep over these things.

Just a point of information here...  MTH doesn't write their own software so they really don't control when it gets upgraded.  They have a dumbed down ("lite") version of RR-Track that packaged especially for them.  This is fine for some basic layouts.  RR-Track was (finally!) upgraded to 5.0 a few months back and I would be somewhat surprised if the club version didn't get upgraded too.

That sounds like a healthy attitude to me.

 

I realize people do feel slighted and that shouldn't be minimized, but the way I look at it, when I pay my dues I am basically buying the club car.  Maybe a discount on the PS-2/3 boards.  Everything else is gravy.  My LHS takes care of me for the catalogs or I go online.

 

By the way, if you were to buy the version of RR-Track that you get as a member, that would also pay for the membership.  While I get that they are not delivering on all of their promises, I think we still get our money's worth.

People, don't sweat the small stuff!  The latest catalog has been online for weeks now.  I almost think printed catalogs are a bit of a luxury these days anyway.  Why take it as a slight?  Life's too short.  Enjoy the club car.

 

David

I too belong to the MTH and Lionel RailRoader Clubs. This has been a problem for the last few years from both clubs. MTH told me 1 or 2 Catalogs ago, that it's the company that does the catalogs and they get sent out from that company. I just got my Lionel Signature catalog from the Lionel RailRoader Club the other day. Funny thing is, I had already got a Lionel Signature catalog from a Train shop in western Pa. that I buy from. And also got the MTH Catalog from them also on Monday.  It does get old!!! As club member's we should have are Catalog's at least the week after it is released. Thats one purpose of being in the club, isn't it???

hello guys and gals.........

I was planing to join the MTHrrc but after reading the posts here, i am having second thoughts.  Is it worth it ? I too was a long time railking customer and did have problems along the way with MTH but this is the WORSE thing MTH can do to their loyal customer by saying" they have other priorities and I should not expect the catalogs to the end of May." 

the woman who loves toy trains

Tiffany

I am a member and got my catalogs today.  Um there was an S-2 in it!  Wow.  And anyone seriously advocating for less competition and therefore fewer model choices, that's a train I can't get on.  

Catalogs and newspapers are almost obsolete.

Save a tree, read online.

Doc, Catalogs are part of the hobby, you hold them in your hand and you read them with the same pleasure that you touch and run your last purchased loc.

I'm pretty much with Don on this one, be it for MTH or any of the other manufacturers.  Once the catalog is available online, that's all I need for determining what I may want to order.  I retain the printed catalogs when they arrive, of course, but I sure don't lose any sleep waiting for them.

 

Now as far as the various manufacturer-oriented clubs are concerned:  My personal recommendation would be for all of these firms--MTH, Lionel, Weaver, WBB, Atlas, RMT, etc.--to drop those special clubs altogether.  They served a useful purpose at one point (early 80s through around 2002 or so), but the hobby has changed, and continues to evolve, and hobbyists and their expectations have also changed in many instances, and not always reasonably or for the better. If supposedly loyal followers are disgruntled, there's probably little to be gained by continuing the expenditure of resources and time involved in maintaining these special entities.  This thread alone illustrates how much things have changed, so my recommendation would be to drop or begin phasing out that initiative at an early date.

 

More on this in a future column that, thanks to this thread, I plan to write for the magazine.  You folks invariably provide some great ideas for topics!  

 

One more tip for the manufacturers who sponsor these clubs:  Don't promise what you can't deliver!

I don't understand the logic of printing some percentage of the catalog for York distribution but then delaying the majority of the catalogs for numerous weeks. Does not seem that this is a sound business move especially when there is order deadlines for the online train shops.

Larry S.,

 

I suspect that M.T.H. does actually have priorities at this point with all of the shows that they have been attending/displaying at this Spring. Most of their team members have several jobs at M.T.H. in order to cover all of the responsibilities required to operate with a smaller work force in today's frustrating and challenging economy. IMHO, none of us know or can appreciate what goes on behind the scenes for a manufacturer today. All of us have grown accustomed to the instant gratification that we enjoyed in the better times of recent history.  Today, that instant response is not always possible. M.T.H. did manage to put together a new catalog and it did come out on time at York. Don't give up. Thing happen, delays occur. Not making excuses for anyone, but I do have a solution for you if you accept:

 

I was lucky enough to be able to attend York and picked up a catalog and I will be happy to send you my new catalog, if you like, just to help out a fellow formite. That is what this forum is all about: helping other members! You can contact me with my contact information that you will find in my profile.

 

Regards,

Jeb

"Serious about promoting our hobby!"

 

Here we go again......

 

I was at the DCS users meeting at York and Andy was quite candid....

MTH is building a thriving O and HO gauge business overseas.The response was WAY bigger and quicker than expected.And no folks,MTH has not forgotten their core business-North American O gauge.You can expect a lot of new innovations and product in the coming year:Upgraded sound,PS3 retrofits,new DCS hardware,never before produced American Premier steam locomotives(Spring 2013),interfaces with WIFI devices. We have never had it better in O gauge.

 

Ricky

That is certainly true.  Truth is, we have been spoiled rotten over the past 20 years and all of us in this segment of the hobby should be very grateful for that.

Truth is, we have been spoiled rotten over the past 20 years and all of us in this segment of the hobby should be very grateful for that.

 

Allan - please support this statement.

I agree we have it great today!!! I work in another hobby field (plastic model kits) and both hobbies have more 'stuff' and better items than at any time in history.

 

But I do feel that manufactures are re-positioning themselves in the market.  I really feel MTH and Lionel have moved up-scale (pun intended)  and others like WBB and RMT are moving into the market left by them.

 

Like all things that are changing, at times makes some folks feel left out or left behind....but it's just change.

 

I agree 100% here.  Just think of all the things we have now that we didn't 20 years ago:

 

• Command control (TMCC, DCS, Legacy)
• Digital Sounds that are constantly being improved
• Improved smoke units
• Greater track choices (FasTrack, RealTrax, ScaleTrax, SuperStreets, etc.)
• Greater variety of rolling stock, both scale and traditional
• Greater variety of locomotives, both scale and traditional
• Greater variety of items decorated in roadnames of smaller roads and short lines
• Greater variety of custom runs
• Remakes/reissues of rare prewar and postwar sets, rolling stock and engines that many could otherwise not afford to own
• Greater variety of buildings, scenery, detail parts, etc.
• Greater detail in the trains themselves thanks to improved manufacturing techniques
• The Internet - like it or not, it has made shopping for trains and hunting for items easier, and it has provided a great place for hobbyists to connect and communicate (like this very forum), and it has provided better channels of communication between the manufacturers and their target customers.

 

I'm sure that even more could be added to this list.

 

Andy

I think if you look back, many of us have been dissappointed by the various manufactures at one time or another for various reasons.

 

Then they'll do something that snags us back.

 

Rusty

There was a similar thread over on the Tinplate Forum a few days after York.

 

The issue with the club memberships definitely sounds like something that needs to be addressed. Folks join Club XYZ and expect certain perks as part of the membership. I have no problem with the gripes about that.

 

However, the catalog thing is a mystery. I’ve received a handful of catalogs (both Lionel and MTH) in the last few weeks from dealers that I’ve purchased from over the last year or two. And they regularly get inserted in the box with my latest order. Frankly, getting your hands on  catalogs should be a no-brainer. Never pay for a catalog.

 

Bottom line is if the club membership isn’t delivering as promised, don’t re-up.   

I spend too much time paging through auctions on the net, eBay, Stout, Ted Maurer, and others,  and have no desire to spend more time paging through, opening pictures, and maybe missing important details in catalogues on the net.  (moments ago an auction house omitted whether items offered were 3 rail or 2 rail)  And I fairly recently went back, rooted through catalogs, and found two road name cars HAD been offered and then found them, one on eBay, another still in stock at a dealer.  HOW LONG are those catalogues kept in an open site on the net..forever? Not likely.  I'd guess not after the now too short notice pre-order date.

I join no mfr. clubs because I only am interested in cars modeled, the better model,  on protoypes, and if I want it, the maker of same, whomever, gets the business.

I was a charter member of the MTHRRC, but I dropped the membership long ago. 

 

I never felt "special" being a member of the club. MTH never seemed to offer specials to their club members that were as good as K-Line offered to their's.

 

To be perfectly honest, I am worried about MTH. They seem to have many issues right now with service, production, and marketing. I have been buying their products since the beginning of their O gauge line. But now, I can't buy from them because what I want is TBA, or has been delayed to the point that I give up and get something else on my list.

 

I consider myself a patient man. I work in a business that demands it. But there are limits. I really hope something changes for the better at MTH...soon.

 

 

 

I'd also be willing to bet that they are a money-loser for the manufacturer.  The only benefit to the manufacturer is if they increase sales in some way.

This is not an unique MTH problem.

I believe that the train industry is going through a tough period overall. More train  collectors are going to their eternal rest, many more retiring, relocating, and downsizing. The hoarding years are behind many of us and IMO the buying is now more selective. Then add in a soft economy, escalating costs of manufacturing in China, a weaker dollar and it all makes for very challenging times. 

Frankly, when the catalog is availble as a .pdf, I don't worry about when I can get a hard copy.  Particulrly Bachmann's with their weird size, it screws up the catalog stack... 

 

Granted, while I find browsing a hard copy easier, (particularly in the "library") I'll usually make up my "pre-order" mind by looking at the online version.

 

Sooner or later, the catalogs will become available for the i-whatevers and the print versions will history.

 

Rusty

I agree in principle that catalogs for the established hobbiest are not needed in paper form in order to decide what you want. However there is an important aspect that everyone has missed thus far.

That is that your LHS needs paper catalogs in order to hand them out to kids and their parents to show them what the hobby has to offer. I give Lionel catalogs away like candy because I can get boat loads of them anytime I want, I just have to pay for shipping, which I am happy to do to promote the hobby. If I don't have MTH catalogs then I can't hand them out, pretty basic concept Mr. Wolf. When I contacted MTH to get some this time I was snubbed, ok whatever.

Train shows are great but they are too few and far between to catch all potental future hobbiest.

I don't do clubs never have never will. I don't buy catalogs never have never will. If you want my business you'll either give me a catalog or provide one on line for me to look at.

But what do you expect? MTH has a small work force. When they were breaking into the O scale market they had a store right there at the building. They'd fix your engine at York while you waited. They started a club to try to get brand loyalty.

Now they're shifting into the HO and European market and that same small workforce has 3 companies to run. Are they over extended? maybe. Will some part of their business get less attention than others? We all know the answer to that.

Me I think they're like the old pin ball machines . Right now theres a light on at MTH that says "Tilt" . Their service is suffering,their marketing is suffering and their production is suffering and the bunch that put them on the map in the first place is last in line. Priorities

David 

Tim makes a good point about having the catalog available to hand out to potential customers.  It isn't just about the established addicts...  er, I mean enthusiasts.     Too bad we can't help the hobby by handing out free trains in schools...

 

But back to advertising/clubs.  It isn't just needed to get the new customer, it is also needed to keep the old.  We tend to be attracted by the latest and greatest flash and have short memories for what was "in" a couple of years ago.  So if the competition is better at attracting attention, they will get people to try their products.  If the products/service are good, they will gain market share until someone else comes along to take it away (and so on).

I think allot of you guys need to take a deep breath. I don't see the problem about the catalog. Lionel and MTH's catalogs are online, take a look and order what you want. I don't care if I ever see the paper versions. As far as the clubs go I agree with Allan Miller, get rid of them. It will save the train company's money and time that could be better spent somewhere else.  It must be tough to get up in the morning if this kind of stuff annoys you. Enjoy your trains, it's the best it has ever been. 

I could do without the paper catalogs, whenever I receive them I give 'em to friends.