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If a magnet sticks to it Alan, it is tin

@pd posted:

Flyer 1109 recently acquired from my friend Tony Hay over in Huntington, WV:

This looks like the earliest version, so vintage 1920-ish?

PD

PD,

Based on the frame, I would say your guess of the 1920s is correct.  However, that is not the earliest version of the 1109 gondola.

The earliest version would date to c. 1910 and would come on a 4-window Chicago car frame with 3 steps

Then there is the 1912 version with 2 steps and butterfly couplers

The c. 1915-1916 versions in brown and green

c. 1917 with no lettering

c. 1918 with winged herald.

The frame on your car, similar to the Milwaukee Road gondola below, was first introduced in the early 1920s and lasted into the 1930s.

NWL

Wow, I wasn’t even close in chronology, lol. Thanks for all of the info NWL. Gives me a better sense of all that came before.

PD

PD,

As a starter for expanding your collection you could focus on the other 4 wheel gondolas with real railroad names that are part of the LV group.

NWL illustrated the CM&StP

in addition there are the EJ&E

and the IC

....and if you are a real glutton for punishment you could add this one to your list

Obviously it is not a real railroad name. It is one of the cars Flyer made for the JC Penney Nation Wide Line series. You can see that the N.W.L litho treatment is just a modification of the EJ&E pattern. - It should be noted the N.W.L. car came in litho colors besides the gray.

@Fatman posted:

Sooo now I have a Jep loco and tender coming ....Clockwork 222(?) from post war as it has the SNCF branding as opposed to NORD of the pre-war .

Nice little one Simon, it is called in French the streamlined 120 loco or 240 for you US fans. Made 1951-52 a good classic model and runs well.

Here is an electric one, same period.

Daniel

Thanks Daniel .. originally I had thought it as a 120 , but googling showed me a heap of the prewar ones and one place had this style listed as a 222 ( which I thought a bit odd?)

JEP models confuse me sometimes lol it seems like they use the same model #'s for different locos pre and post war ?

A general rule for JEP models; as the nationalised SNCF makes it's debut in 1938 all models made prior to that date are marked NORD, for the steam engines, both lithos and painted models. Post 1938, and in fact some more time later all same models are stamped SNCF.

A 222 JEP streamlined loco is for you in USA a 444 model.

Here is a NORD first model, 1938-39

And the same model, post war SNCF

In fast the only major change is the small stamped part of the tender; after there is different motors and reversing system but basically the models are the same...

Part of the fun of collecting toy trains from JEP....

All my best wishes, Daniel

@NWL and @ Robert S. Butler - thank you for the information on the early AF gondolas...that chronology is very difficult to come by except by expert collectors on the foreum.  Thanks for posting.  @FRENCHTRAINS - Daniel thanks for the information on the JEP steamers, very little of that sort of information is available in the US.

Best wishes everyone

Don

Regarding those prewar Flyer gondolas with RR heralds, I know there's a  PRR 1116 Green Gondola  (X7806) which has an 8 wheel yellow and an 8 wheel red counterpart, but don't know if they're are 4 wheels of those. There's a CB&Q 8 wheel as wel. Does anyone know- Where most/all of the colors offered in both 4 and 8 wheel for these gondolas? Or was there more variety for the 8 wheel cars?

@StevefromPA posted:

Regarding those prewar Flyer gondolas with RR heralds, I know there's a  PRR 1116 Green Gondola  (X7806) which has an 8 wheel yellow and an 8 wheel red counterpart, but don't know if they're are 4 wheels of those. There's a CB&Q 8 wheel as wel. Does anyone know- Where most/all of the colors offered in both 4 and 8 wheel for these gondolas? Or was there more variety for the 8 wheel cars?

Steve,

I believe that the cars should have been offered equally in 4 and 8 wheel versions, but who can really say at this point.  The cars were designed to have the 1113 numbered cars as 4 wheel cars and the 1116 as 8 wheel cars, but the car numbers do not always match what they are supposed to be.  Therefore, one finds 8 wheel cars with the 1113 number on them and 4 wheel cars with the 1116 on them.

Here are the 8 wheel versions that I have. 

c. 1918

c. 1918

The car below actually has 1116 on one side and 1113 on the other (which is the side shown)

Later cars

Late cars with gray trucks, brass trim, and brake wheels

The unusual Nation Wide Lines gondola

As far as 4 wheel cars go, there are variations from all of the same periods as the 8 wheel cars, but I do not have all of them.  These are photos of what I have.

Nation Wide Lines on a 4 wheel frame

NWL

Some great posts this week. Daniel, simply beautiful your JEP locos and everyone all those gondolas never knew there were so many.

From me this week her are some gondolas and other freights, this time from Marklin. A little dusty on arrival but I think they cleaned up pretty well.

All the best, Miketg

@Nation Wide Lines - WOW I never saw so many different gondolas.  I am away from home at the moment but will have to sort my few examples out and compare.  The 4 wheel / 8 wheel numbering scheme and the fact that it was sometimes ignored, I have seen before, in my case on the AF 112 / 115 Automobile Car.  @Miketg - Great Marklin freights, I especially love the "banana car" So I have two things today, first a couple of gondola's to keep our thread going.

Fandor  stake gondola, from the period before WW I.  Import to the US stopped at that point and the company (from the US perspective) re-formed as Dorfan in the US in the 1920's.

Hornby (Hatchette) stake flat and gondola

Now next I have what I had planned for my input this week.  I just acquired a two arm, unlighted mechanical semaphore.  It has no manufacturer's mark so I have tried to place it properly but cannot be certain.  It has a square base which seems to eliminate pre-war American Flyer.  The square base is characteristic of Lionel although others may have the same.  When I looked up items like this I came up with the following..."Semaphore #64 : Two arms, mechanically operated, not lighted, 14" 1915-1921"  That description does match this signal although I cannot be sure that it does not match other makers as well.  My reference material just had a text description and no picture.  Any input by other forum members is MOST welcome.  

Best wishes for a great week ahead.

Don

@Nation Wide Lines thank you so much for the information and the pictures as well! For the 8 wheel gondolas, while the later gray truck models have brass trim which really adds to some prewar trains, aesthetically I'd still prefer the black trucks. Again, that's just for these gondolas. I do like the later gray trucks on the 3207 sand car, the 3208 boxcar, etc... Thanks again for sharing, that post is a great resource.

Since one of the moderators thought that my original post should be moved from Tinplate Trains to Scenery, where I doubt they would be seen by those who know tinplate trains, I decided to post the pictures here also.

I am looking for any thoughts on who made these trees.  I believe them to be from the prewar era.  They have Loofa foliage, wooden trunks, and a composite base.

NWL

@Nation Wide Lines posted:

Since one of the moderators thought that my original post should be moved from Tinplate Trains to Scenery, where I doubt they would be seen by those who know tinplate trains, I decided to post the pictures here also.

I am looking for any thoughts on who made these trees.  I believe them to be from the prewar era.  They have Loofa foliage, wooden trunks, and a composite base.

NWL

Thanks for posting these in the tinplate forum.  I've never seen trees like this - will be curious to see when someone identifies them.  And I completely agree with you - I probably wouldn't have seen it in the scenery forum.  Not to disparage the trees - they're really fascinating for their era - but they probably aren't of much interest to people who try to model realistic scenery.

@Mallard4468 posted:

Thanks for posting these in the tinplate forum.  I've never seen trees like this - will be curious to see when someone identifies them.  And I completely agree with you - I probably wouldn't have seen it in the scenery forum.  Not to disparage the trees - they're really fascinating for their era - but they probably aren't of much interest to people who try to model realistic scenery.

I emailed pictures to several friends and one of them pointed me toward Elastolin, a trademark used by the German company O&M Hausser.  I have found photos of similar trees on similar bases, so it seems the identity of the maker has been established.

NWL

I was going to proffer Elastolin as well , but its not in my main wheelhouse so would have been a semi -educated guess as the bases look like the same composite they used?

Seems like this thread is a lifeline for " Non-serious frowny-face " things

And in that vein as I have very little Trainey stuff new to the hoard, but I did manage to add to the clockwork construction motor side of things

A nice little TRIX unit from the 50's in Germany ... This is a bit of an oddball , as Trix was well known for its many electric motors over the years , but very late to the party they decided that maybe a clockwork would be good ... A strange decision , backed up by the fact it sold for nearly twice the price of their current open frame battery powered motor ! 5.7M compared to 3.5M ... So your father must have REALLY hated buying you batteries to pay a premium on the motor lol!

Quite a quality little unit being hard chromed and quality brass alloy gears etc .

Doing my bit for the Ukraine and adding a little bit of history into the mix as well ...

Coming from the rural city of Horodenka in the south west of Ukraine is a Soviet era pocket railway lamp , used by railway staff for signalling ... it can be locked on , or used as a momentary flasher ( morse code etc for the military), and has inbuilt red and green transparent slides to change the colour depending on message ...

Fatman ... injecting capital into the war zone one flashlight at a time

Good afternoon everyone,

Fatman, love that Trix clockwork motor, looks quite powerful if not actually dangerous. I wonder what it could pull if installed in a loco.

From my end just a couple of recently acquired small Marklin accessories. To me these really make a layout and in two years time I plan to build a 1930’s themed layout, possibly half French, half German as I have acquired quite a bit of French Hornby, JEP, Joustra and other brands over the years. Still in the planning stages.

So here are some photos of the newly acquired items. As the Germans say, Salz in der Suppe or salt in the soup.

All the best,

Miketg

@Robert S. Butler posted:

Robert,

  I know posted a nice response on my retirement topic. Sorry if it got deleted.

Tom