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Tinplate photos 📸 and videos 📽

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FatmanFatmanOGR Forum Member

I think I reached ( for me anyway) a bit of a milestone in my forbidden love of all things clockwork trainish.... Normally I subject you lot to a bit of an essay with whatever relevant stuff I "think" I "know" about it lol, but today I present a guessing game instead !

I know very well what it is ... and I honestly never thought I would own one in matters of scarcity and $$$'s but I was very lucky to find it here in Australia of all places ..

Sooooooo what I am yapping about .... This Minty Fresh beauty ... ( if you ignore the slight bump on a front buffer ... it will bend back   )

First to correctly identify it gets a Fatman Hug (tm)

Chris LoneroChris LoneroOGR Forum Member
@Jim Z posted:

Chris,

I love the cover phot of the 840 power station.

i think it is the most spectacular imageof the Lionel pre war structures.

My power station is by T Reproductions. I did not use the platform in order to fit it into a tight space.

Jim Z

 

Thanks Jim the 840 is the center piece of my layout.    I love the way you have the street laid out in front of yours with the street lights and cars well done! 

FRENCHTRAINSFRENCHTRAINSOGR Forum Member
@Fatman posted:

I think I reached ( for me anyway) a bit of a milestone in my forbidden love of all things clockwork trainish.... Normally I subject you lot to a bit of an essay with whatever relevant stuff I "think" I "know" about it lol, but today I present a guessing game instead !

I know very well what it is ... and I honestly never thought I would own one in matters of scarcity and $$$'s but I was very lucky to find it here in Australia of all places ..

Sooooooo what I am yapping about .... This Minty Fresh beauty ... ( if you ignore the slight bump on a front buffer ... it will bend back   )

First to correctly identify it gets a Fatman Hug (tm)

That's a great one @Fatman ..... I think it is a Van Riemsdjik loco no ?  I wish I could have an opportunity to find one but maybe I won this one no ?

FRENCHTRAINSFRENCHTRAINSOGR Forum Member
@Tinplate Art posted:

DANIEL: Your apple green 408E is one of my favorite SG engines. I had an MTH one and currently have an MTH dark green twin-BAL powered one. It is pulling two MTH 214R reefers and an LCT 217 caboose in the video below. All my SG are shiny new repros!

The 408E is also one of my prefered loco Art, with the 402 it can pull all you want to couple to it. Even if I prefer original one with some scratches the new shiny ones are very nice to see . I have recently bought a Lionel 200 trolley, very pleased with it .

IMG_0443

Daniel

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FatmanFatmanOGR Forum Member
@FRENCHTRAINS posted:

That's a great one @Fatman ..... I think it is a Van Riemsdjik loco no ?  I wish I could have an opportunity to find one but maybe I won this one no ?

100% Correct Daniel!

Its one of only 600 manufactured by John Van Riemsdijk between 1946 and 1948. Riemsdijk after the war saw that other manufacturers were churning out the cheaper models into the recovering marketplace and was convinced that there would be a market for clockwork loco's of much higher quality like those that were prevalent before the war , so utilising a Basset-lowke type drive he set his engineering mind to work and mated the high quality mechanism with a user variable certrifugal governer , which gave an ability to run the locomotive at slower speeds without losing the torque of the motor or sacrificing the run down of the mechanism in effect the modern birth of the controlled clockwork motor ! ( in regard to model railways ) A Similar concept was invented and implimented before the war in 1928 by Walker-Fenn utilising a gramophone governor bolted onto a Marklin chassis but it was a costly piece!  ... sadly in the post war boom electricity was becoming more and more available and it was now truly the time of the electric locomotive which somewhat took the winds out of the sails of these brilliant clockwork beauties ...

He made a lot of tinplate trams and over 1000 0-6-0 locomotives and they show up from time to time , but the 4-4-4 is much less common to appear , so snagging this one was amazing for me ..

His products were sold mainly thru upmarket stores such as Walkers-Holtzapffel and Gamages in London ( thus they are often called Walkers-Riemdijk's )

Van Riemsdijk was an incredibly interesting fellow from what I read of him , born in 1924 ,He spent a lot of his childhood traveling all across Europe on trains with his father , he joined the Royal Navy, and in WWII in recognition of his inventor side and encyclopedic knowledge of Europe he was signed up by the UK's SOE (Special Operations Executive) and among many things designed and made Clockwork "Moo-Horns" which were included in airdrops to the French Resistance to enable them to find the packages in total darkness... Mooing every few minutes .. Ze Germans never caught on ! and what a great excuse for being out at night ...looking for a lost cow! "Moooooo! " Oh its over there !  LOL!

He also invented a Steam Powered radio so the resistance didn't need electricity to contact the Brits !

He sold his clockwork business in 1956 and took up a position at the National Science Museum ( UK ) ... and he went on to pretty much source collate and set up the UK National Railway Museum

Oh and he made Gorgeous Locos like this one ...

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M Mallard4468OGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
@Fatman posted:

...Its one of only 600 manufactured by John Van Riemsdijk between 1946 and 1948... (etc.)

Thanks for sharing the details.  It's always interesting to read about the smaller makers.

Whenever I read something like this, the following thoughts come to mind - a) thankfully, someone still knows this stuff and is willing to share it, b) is this information well-documented, stored, and made available such that people can find it in the future, and c) will anyone care?

RS Robert S. ButlerOGR Forum Member

lewrail - thanks for the morning laugh - I needed that.  The "joke" is strictly my doing - I did a quick read of your post and what registered was "I have computer controlled clockwork locomotives...."   

  Needless to say, that gave me pause so, of course, I went back and read it properly...thinking about my mis-read I must admit I kind of like the way it turned out - what comes to mind is the idea that if one had computer controlled clockwork locomotives one would probably have to have a mechanical computer like Babbage's Difference Engine to control them. 

Don McErleanDon McErleanOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Fatman /lewrail :  Wow, Van Riemsdjik a maker of trains that I had not heard of before.  You guys and Arne with Adolf Schuhmann have identified two makers that are new to me for sure.  This forum is the only place that this knowledge gets shared, thank you all.  Frenchtrains, great Standard Gauge display.  TinplateArt - like you I love the 258, they seem rugged yet have the classic tinplate look at the same time.  Thanks for the pictures.

As an aside, Fatman...wife and I have been watching an Australian mystery TV show called the " Mysteries of Dr. Blake" set in the late 50's early 60's in Victoria, Australia.  In the episode the other night the culprit was found (a lady) whose small child left a clue at the scene...a Hornby MO steam engine!  He puts the engine with the tender still in the boy's possession and wha-la has a suspect. 

Well we are about to head home to Texas from the East Coast and I am anxious to study a Bing tank car (Peerless Tank Lines) that I scored on e-bay but had shipped home.  Will post pictures later in the month...

Don

 

TA Tinplate ArtOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

It should be noted that John Van Riemsdjik is also famous for his collaboration with the late founder of Fulgurex, Count Antonio Giansanti-Coluzzi and Aster for the design of many of their famous high quality gauge one live steam models including the incredible Big Boy and the more pedestrian, yet delightful, LGB/Aster Frank S. He was at least as famous for the Aster live steam program as for his clockwork patents.

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TA Tinplate ArtOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Fulgurex, by means of Tenshodo and other precision model manufacturers, produced some very high quality models including the well known Swiss Crocodile. The Count had some brass engines made by the Korean firm of Samhongsa, which also once famously produced trains for MTH. Count Coluzzi had an enviable  collection of high-end European model trains in several gauges, many of which are documented in a coffee table style book entitled The Trains on the Avenue De Rumine (Random House, 1983) which was the Count's actual address in Lausanne, Switzerland. This handsome tome contains 3000 color photographs of some of the world's finest model trains.

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Steve "Papa" EastmanSteve "Papa" EastmanOGR Forum Member
@Robert S. Butler posted:

lewrail - thanks for the morning laugh - I needed that.  The "joke" is strictly my doing - I did a quick read of your post and what registered was "I have computer controlled clockwork locomotives...."   

  Needless to say, that gave me pause so, of course, I went back and read it properly...thinking about my mis-read I must admit I kind of like the way it turned out - what comes to mind is the idea that if one had computer controlled clockwork locomotives one would probably have to have a mechanical computer like Babbage's Difference Engine to control them. 

James Pakarek has a radio controlled clockwork.

Steve

Don McErleanDon McErleanOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Thanks for all the information Tinplate Art...the forum is one of the few places that folks like me can increase their knowledge of the model / toy train hobby.  lewrail the picture of the Walkers & Holtzhaphel 0-6-0 was really interesting and again lists a manufacturer I had not heard of before...and to think the data came from another Dr. Blake fan !!

Thanks to all for posting  - I will be back home in a week or so and hopefully will be able to post some of the tinplate that has arrived from e-bay over the last 2 months.

Don

George SGeorge SOGR Forum Member
@Tinplate Art posted:

Interesting. What is it and who made it? Some type of coaling station? 

It's a windup toy dredge. It was made by Oro Werke in Germany under the trade name Orobr around 1920. The windup mechanism is in the engine part of the toy and moves the pistons up and down. The black wheel is some type of flywheel that prevents the windup mechanism from moving until it starts to turn. There is a lever on the opposite side that turns a lever on the bucket elevator to make them move. It's a fascinating toy that is very addictive to play with.

George

FRENCHTRAINSFRENCHTRAINSOGR Forum Member

A recent buy is this O gauge BING loco, it is just fresh from the barn and in needs of some restoration and cleaning. It is a high voltage model from 1912, maybe Arne will have some more informations. Pictures are from the auction site and I will post better ones when restored and with her original passenger car set I have since a long time. Not bad for more than a hundred years old piece.

16892

Daniel

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FRENCHTRAINSFRENCHTRAINSOGR Forum Member

It is not a SNCF model, it looks more German but it is a toy.... What makes it interesting for me is thay it bears the stamp of a French toy shop and the passenger cars I have has also French marking on them.

Here they are, roofs have been repainted but I really enjoy the teack litho. They where also made in gauge one.

IMG_6703IMG_6704IMG_6705

Daniel

 

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Jim Kelly-EvansJim Kelly-EvansOGR Forum Member

Apropos Tinplate Art's discussion of Fulgurex, they issued a remake of the 1930 Marklin Rheinuferbahn in 1980. The "White Train" has three cars and was made in gauge 1. Elsewhere someone commented that the remakes were few in number and currently command prices almost as high as the originals. Here is a video showing my Fulgurex set in operation.

 

FatmanFatmanOGR Forum Member

Its a good thing I collect rather than "invest" in my little clockwork tinplate beauties , because I am pretty sure that last nights purchase was definately an "OverPayer Experience " and I really hope what I bought IS what I think it is ( lol ) for which I will hand it over to you gentlemen for confirmation ......

But i am pretty sure I just bought an early American Flyer "Hummer" locomotive ... the seller did not list it as anything other than " O Gauge Pressed Steel Wind up Locomotive Train Works Unknown Maker " ????

Normally I shy away from the ePay Global Shipping Extortionaganza, but where am I gonna find another one?

Someone else was fairly interested in it too , so yeah , I paid for it lol!

So please tell me its a Hummer .... pleaaaaase

I think there were two variations of this dependant on years? And this is the later version ? Earlier one having a squarer cab and box window?

I admit the sexxy little curved cab window grabbed my attention and told me I had to buy it

Steve "Papa" EastmanSteve "Papa" EastmanOGR Forum Member
@Fatman posted:

Its a good thing I collect rather than "invest" in my little clockwork tinplate beauties , because I am pretty sure that last nights purchase was definately an "OverPayer Experience " and I really hope what I bought IS what I think it is ( lol ) for which I will hand it over to you gentlemen for confirmation ......

But i am pretty sure I just bought an early American Flyer "Hummer" locomotive ... the seller did not list it as anything other than " O Gauge Pressed Steel Wind up Locomotive Train Works Unknown Maker " ????

Normally I shy away from the ePay Global Shipping Extortionaganza, but where am I gonna find another one?

Someone else was fairly interested in it too , so yeah , I paid for it lol!

So please tell me its a Hummer .... pleaaaaase

I think there were two variations of this dependant on years? And this is the later version ? Earlier one having a squarer cab and box window?

I admit the sexxy little curved cab window grabbed my attention and told me I had to buy it

Yup, it’s a Hummer. I think I may have a spare #50 tender somewhere.

Steve
3D76D326-DF8C-43BC-BC26-6EA0A46591F8

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Jim O'CJim O'COGR Forum Member
@Fatman posted:

Its a good thing I collect rather than "invest" in my little clockwork tinplate beauties , because I am pretty sure that last nights purchase was definately an "OverPayer Experience " and I really hope what I bought IS what I think it is ( lol ) for which I will hand it over to you gentlemen for confirmation ......

But i am pretty sure I just bought an early American Flyer "Hummer" locomotive ... the seller did not list it as anything other than " O Gauge Pressed Steel Wind up Locomotive Train Works Unknown Maker " ????

Normally I shy away from the ePay Global Shipping Extortionaganza, but where am I gonna find another one?

Someone else was fairly interested in it too , so yeah , I paid for it lol!

So please tell me its a Hummer .... pleaaaaase

I think there were two variations of this dependant on years? And this is the later version ? Earlier one having a squarer cab and box window?

I admit the sexxy little curved cab window grabbed my attention and told me I had to buy it

shoulda known that's where it went. 

FRENCHTRAINSFRENCHTRAINSOGR Forum Member

As we had a very hot weekend, i spent some time restoring my little BING loco from 1912. Cleaning, replacement bumper on the tender, original front part on the tender which was missing, couplers have been replaced as they where broken, always useful to have original replacement parts; wiring replaced as it was shorting, just too old. Just two screws are non original.Here is the final result.

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Daniel

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FatmanFatmanOGR Forum Member
@Jim O'C posted:

hey it was mine at $10 all week

wasnt going to tip my hat too early because I figured out if someone bids on it its likely they know what it is It was on my watch list before you bid , and I wont lie ... a little "#$%$" escaped my lips when you did !

I managed to score a nice little Karl Bub c 1930 locomotive from my Dutch Friend in Eindhoven which took some of the sting away

@FRENCHTRAINS Marvellous sympathetic restoration on the Bing ... Lovely!

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NW Nation Wide LinesOGR Forum Member
@balidas posted:

Nice video! Thanx! On 2 of the tunnels are red & green lights, were they added or is that original? I've never seen lights on a tunnel before.

American Flyer cataloged lighted tunnels for 2 years in the middle 1930s.  The first year included the 2 tunnels shown in the video and the 2nd year featured a new and different tunnel.  You will have to watch the next video to see the 3rd lighted tunnel that American Flyer sold.

Last edited by Nation Wide Lines
Don McErleanDon McErleanOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Jim Kelly-Evans that "floating train" is a real wonder and its age and the fact that its still operating talks to the skill and level of engineering that went into it.  I especially liked the fact that they put it over the river, thus not taking up any of the land in the village, quite a feat of construction I would imagine.  NWL those flyer trains really do "fly"...I have many of the cars but the engines have remained elusive at least to me... I wonder do they travel that fast due to a fixed voltage setting or is it possible to control the speed and run them slower.  Nonetheless they are really cool, thanks for posting the video. 

Happy and healthy week everyone

Don

NW Nation Wide LinesOGR Forum Member
@Don McErlean posted:

 NWL those flyer trains really do "fly"...I have many of the cars but the engines have remained elusive at least to me... I wonder do they travel that fast due to a fixed voltage setting or is it possible to control the speed and run them slower.  Nonetheless they are really cool, thanks for posting the video. 

Don

Don,

The early engines are being run on a regular transformer, but they seem to either go or stop.  I was running them at the lowest setting I could in order for them to run.  I tried running one on the inner dog bone loop, but it kept flying off the rails due to the limited ability to vary the speed and the tighter curves.

The passenger set was running with a very early motor that seems to be some sort of experimental engine that has tube brushes, something that American Flyer did not make standard on their engines until 1925.  This engine is the earliest American Flyer engine that I have ever observed and is believed to be either an engineering sample or one of the 50 engines that American Flyer made to test the market.  It has several unusual features, as compared to the known production engines.  All I know of its history is that it came to me via a Chicago area flea market.  Since it came to me missing its brushes, it was running with new springs and brushes.  

The engine pulling the freight cars was running with its original brushes, which are simple copper fingers (no other brush of any sort) so it was running a bit slower.  This engine is also an early engine, with the machined cast iron wheels, which are found on the early engines.

NWL

Don McErleanDon McErleanOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

NWL: THANK YOU for the pictures and explanation on the early Flyer engines.  Data on these cast iron guys is hard to come by and really interesting.  I saw one on e-bay recently but with the normal high shipping charges it was a bit out of my reach and the ad really had no information beyond the fact that it was reported to be AF (based on what it said on the tender).  I will keep looking. 

Thanks again for taking the time to post the data.

Don

 

NW Nation Wide LinesOGR Forum Member
@Don McErlean posted:

NWL: THANK YOU for the pictures and explanation on the early Flyer engines.  Data on these cast iron guys is hard to come by and really interesting.  I saw one on e-bay recently but with the normal high shipping charges it was a bit out of my reach and the ad really had no information beyond the fact that it was reported to be AF (based on what it said on the tender).  I will keep looking. 

Thanks again for taking the time to post the data.

Don

 

Don,

If you want an early engine, especially one with the bigger casting, with the square windows and the cast iron drivers, be prepared to pay for it.  They tend to sell at premium prices.

NWL

FRENCHTRAINSFRENCHTRAINSOGR Forum Member

Return to old tinplate model, I just got the most classic and common Bassett-Lowke model, the Duke of York 1927. This one is the electric version which is far less common than the clockwork model.  Now I have one to go....  but not easy to part with..... This model has been made from 1927 to the thirties and is a very good quality piece.

s-l1600 [3)s-l1600 [5)

And the sister clockwork model,

IMG_9875IMG_9878

Have a nice weekend, Daniel

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