The 2 issues I have run into are first the audio cable being bad causing the TIU to not be found. Second is the updates on Windows have invalidated some rs232 sub adaptor cables with the older chipset inside. If you check the devices on the pic and there are no driver issues then I would try a different audio cable. I went with a high quality cable with reinforced connectors which solved my issues. 

Good luck.

Did you install the Windows driver for the serial to USB cable?

Barry,

I installed the driver off the CD then wanted to make sure that it was up to date. When I look at the device drivers they are all according to MS the most recent driver. I have heard other folks having the same issue. Even at the NJ HiRailers club when I used that CPU it was hit or miss. 

Tried again this am and get the same warning message - can't find the TIU.

Jeff,

Will replace the audio cable. It did work with Windows 8 and have had issues with Win 10. I tried it on a Win 7 machine this am and no luck. Maybe it is the cable. 

Which one did you eventually use? Can you send me the make and model number?

I don't think it is a driver issues as I have tried multiple machines and it appears the drivers are up to date and I get power to the TIU   when I use the USB cable only or when I use the Key Span which requires power from a transformer.

Thanks for the help - just let me know the make and model number of the cable. Will try that next

Thanks.

Kevin

Just a thought here...I believe there is a Win 10 driver file posted on the MTH Protosound2 site that some folks here have had to install. I can't seem to access that site right now and I have not yet tried to update anything using Win 10 so I don't have personal experience with these driver files. There have been some discussions here on the Windows drivers at the MTH site. Barry will probably know what the drivers are on the MTH site, maybe he will add to this.

I do have a USB to Serial cable (Lionel recommended - the Tripp-Lite I think it is?) that I use for my Legacy system and it works great there, but I have not been able to make it work with my DCS system. Fortunately I have a Rev L TIU that works just fine with Win 7 and a USB to USB cable. 

hi install this usb file and will work with windows 7 or 10 ok

Alan

PSU1980 posted:

Jeff,

Will replace the audio cable. It did work with Windows 8 and have had issues with Win 10. I tried it on a Win 7 machine this am and no luck. Maybe it is the cable. 

Which one did you eventually use? Can you send me the make and model number?

I don't think it is a driver issues as I have tried multiple machines and it appears the drivers are up to date and I get power to the TIU   when I use the USB cable only or when I use the Key Span which requires power from a transformer.

Thanks for the help - just let me know the make and model number of the cable. Will try that next

Thanks.

Kevin

Hello Kevin,

Here is the audio cable I used:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and the Tripp Lite Model Number: USA-19HS USB adaptor:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

In my recent experience some audio cables are intermittent so I bought a really high quality cable to prevent that. I would also suggest you look at your devices on Windows and make sure there are no errors listed under the device driver for the adapter cable since the current windows updates invalidated the prior chips being used in older adapter cables. I tried the online patches but they did not work for me. I bought this new adapter cable and have updated 4 TIUs including 2 when I was at the TTOS National Convention at the Queen Mary last month. I did not have much free time and everything worked perfect so this is my best suggestion through my experiences.

Kevin,

If you do the following, does the PC find the TIU:

• Power off the TIU.
• Disconnect everything from the TIU.
• Connect power to the TIU either via Fixed #1 or the Aux. Power port. The red LED should blink at least once before coming on steady.
• At the top of the Loader Program screen, click OPTIONS and then Search for TIU.

If the TIU is found, then the issue is almost certainly either the 1/8" jumper cable or you're not following the instructions exactly.

If you find the TIU, proceed to update it as follows:

• Power off the TIU.
• Disconnect everything from the TIU.
• Connect only the 1/8" stereo jumper cable.
• Connect power to the TIU either via Fixed #1 or the Aux. Power port. The red LED must not blink at all. It should just come on steady. If it blinks even once, the cable is bad.
• Procede to do the TIU update.

Hi Barry,

Just got back from Best Buy where I purchased the Insignia 3.5 MM Audio Cable (low profile - what ever that means). It is a 3 ft cable and is, I think model number NS-LW16W. 

I am going to try to do this again. Will keep you posted.

Kevin

Obviously I am doing something wrong. The Loader allows me to search for the TIU or just go to Comm port. So I selected the comm port and followed your directions - still not able to update the TIU or the Remote

I am giving up for now, had enough fun for the day, I will try again tomorrow - a simple attack like this should not be that hard unless Win 10 is causing the problems.

Ok, so so I am going to return the cable to Best Buy because it did not solve the problem  - plus it was $17.00. I ordered the one on Amazon, thanks Jeff, will try that one.

Jeff,

Interestingly enough - Win 8 DID NOT  give me any problems - updating the TIU or remote. I picked up an additional remote last year and never updated it - was attempting to do this today. If MTH knows of dry drivers for WIN 10 they need to post it. If you located the site please advise.

Will keep trying.

K

I think it still might be a device issue. Please go to your devices screen and make sure there are no triangles showing a system error:

If it does then reload the adapter cable device driver. The MTH loader cannot detect this system error.

I have one unknown device with a yellow triangle, nothing other than that so should I delete it?

Give me a few to reboot the CPU and I will send you a screen shot.

K

Kevin,

Just in case I wasn't clear, when using the Options menu and searching for the TIU, do not have the cable inserted.

If it wasn't inserted and the TIU was not found, then the cable is not the problem.

Hi Barry,

Ok, I had the audio cable inserted into the TIU. My bad. Since this was / is new computer I thought that the TIU would be seen naturally. That might have been the problem. So I will start the process over again. 

I will re instALL the Tripp-lite Key Span Model USA-19HS RS-232 Adapter Drivers and the Sabrent RS-232 - USB 2.0 Serial Cable Adapter drivers as well. I will try the try the two cables again once I reload everything

Barry, let me make sure I have this correctly stated.

1. No power to TIU - completely off

2. Mini audio cable - not inserted - at this time - I need to get the TIU to see the comm port. The audio cable is needed for programming - correct? and not at this time.

3. Connect the USB Cable or RS-232 serial adapter / connector to the TIU and to the PC.

4. Power the TIU - Power comes from the USB Cable or if I use the RS-232 serial adapter from the transformer.  TIU LED will flash 1 time then the one that you can see through the hole will be a steady RED.

5. Option menu - select search for TIU.

6. TIU should be found.

7. Then proceed with the updates

Kevin,

1. No power to TIU - completely off

Correct

2. Mini audio cable - not inserted - at this time - I need to get the TIU to see the comm port. The audio cable is needed for programming - correct? and not at this time.

Correct

3. Connect the USB Cable or RS-232 serial adapter / connector to the TIU and to the PC.

Correct.

4. Power the TIU - Power comes from the USB Cable or if I use the RS-232 serial adapter from the transformer.  TIU LED will flash 1 time then the one that you can see through the hole will be a steady RED.

Correct. However, if it's a Rev. L TIU with a USB port, use standard USB A-B cable instead of a serial to USB cable. Either way, also use transformer power into either Fixed #1 In or the Aux. Input port.

5. Option menu - select search for TIU.

Correct

6. TIU should be found.

Correct

7. Then proceed with the updates

Correct.

However, first disconnect everything from the TIU; insert the jumper cable; power the TIU from the transformer; and then connect the USB cable to the computer. Make sure that the red LED does not blink at all.

Then, proceed with the TIU software upgrade.

Do you have a copy of The DCXS Companion 3rd Edition? If so, it's all in the book.

This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at OGR’s web store!

Alan, Jeff and Barry - Success - I was finally able to get the TIU to see com port 4 on my older IBM ThinkPad running Windows 7. Therefore, I was able to upgrade the TIU and 2 remotes to 5.0. Now I can add the WiFi unit once I update that as well. 

Barry, yes I have the book. Got the new one from you at Spring York - signed too. It is t home, I did not buy the digital version. Now I have a reason to buy both.

So, my next adventure will be to figure out why I can't get the Dell Win 10 version working.

Thanks all.

Kevin 

Glad to hear you got the upgrades done!

Hi All;

I am having the exact same issue as Kevin: Can't find the TIU using the TIU search option with the audio cable not plugged in. I am using loader V 5.0 and have followed Barry's advice above, and I have tried several different USB ports on the computer. It is a fairy fast PC running W7 HP x 64bit. The TIU in question is an I3 rev and is ID #4. Does the ID need to be changed to #1 (1 blink of the red LED)?

Thanks, Rod

Rod,

Does the ID need to be changed to #1 (1 blink of the red LED)?

No, it does not.

I have tried several different USB ports on the computer. 

That will make no difference at all.

It would be very helpful if you described, in detail, exactly what you're doing and exactly what happens as a result.

Barry; OK I have followed this advice, which you provided earlier in this thread:

"If you do the following, does the PC find the TIU:

• Power off the TIU.
• Disconnect everything from the TIU.
• Connect power to the TIU either via Fixed #1 or the Aux. Power port. The red LED should blink at least once before coming on steady.
• At the top of the Loader Program screen, click OPTIONS and then Search for TIU."

I tried this on an older Rev I3 TIU using an RS-232 cable with a USB to RS-232 adapter. Repeatedly I get "unable to find the TIU". Then I realized that this is a new computer since my last upgrade to 4.10 in 2010, and the adapter needs a driver loaded. Naturally I have no idea where the driver CD is.  Also letting Windows search the net for a driver was a waste of time. I also Googled the make and model number of the adapter and that produced no useable results.

So then I figured I would try to upgrade my Rev L TIU which currently runs V4.20. So I used a USB A to B cable, and also powered it up using a transformer connected as well as the USB cable. No joy with that either. Unable to find the TIU. BTW, the stereo patch cable was not connected to the TIU during any of the above.

Any ideas?

Rod

Rod,

Here is exactly what I did.

1. Removed all versions of the DCS software and loader.

2. De installed the drivers from my laptop for the Key Span Triplite RS-232.

3. Created a new restore point.

4. Had a few beers

5. Re-installed the Key Span Trip lite drivers.

6. Went to the Device Manager to ensure the RS-232 Key span Triplite device. Do that by plugging the USB into the PC and see if it shows up.

7. I downloaded the drivers from Alan, the MTH Tech - a few pages up.

8. Down load the 5.0 DCS Loader and Application.

9. Downloaded the 16 page 5.0 document from the MTH site. Found as on the same page / section for the App and loader.

10. Have a beer.

11. Reboot the laptop.

12. Read, at least 2 times the direction on the detail version of the instructions you downloaded or look at Barry's most recent  book.

13. Follow the direction for the TIU to see the serial port. I selected Autosearch and it found Comm Port 3. I used the Key Span Triplite RS-232 connector. Why? I had that on in my hand, but I had the USB cable and the other USB RS-232 adapters handy. I am not a fan of the Key Span Triplite because I have found that it won't stay connected to the TIU RS-232 connection as it has no screws to insert / tighten it to the TIU so I had to hold it / support it to complete the connection.

14. Program the remote - again a little difficult due to the crappy Key Span Triplite "head" that gets connected to the TIU RS-232 adapter.

15. Drink a Irish Malt and celebrate.

I think one of the keys to success was Alan's drivers. Plus, all the help and support of Barry and the Forum Team. Also, got irritated enough to walk away and start from scratch.

Hope that helps.

Kevin

Kevin; I especially like steps 4, 10 & 15!  Those I can handle with predictable results.

So since my last post I re-tackled the project and found that my PC has a DB9 serial port; so I just connected it direct to the TIU using a M-F DB9 serial cable (straight through; not null modem). Guess what; the PC immediately found the TIU! Halleluyah! So I unzipped the 5.0 software and installed the TIU software following the instructions. No problem. Then I disconnected everything from the TIU and tried to use two different remotes to check the version of the software, and got "Out of Range" for my trouble. Is this because the remotes still have 4.10 software installed I wonder and can't read the signature of the newer TIU software?

So then I tried to install the 5.0 software in each of two remotes. After following all the instructions I got to the "Hold the remote power button down", and it just won't work. No joy. Checked all connections, disconnected everything and started again. It keeps repeating to hold the remote power button down and acts like it can't see that the power button is being pushed. So what now? Refer to Kevin's step #4 I guess.

Any ideas? At this rate I will be a month or more upgrading my 4 TIU's and 3 remotes I figure. If I ever get it done.

Thanks, Rod

It's amazing how stupid we can be at times. Good idea to re-read the directions when something does not go right. I discovered that what I thought was repeatedly asking me to push the remote power button was actually saying to push the power button, then release it, then push and hold it down again. Duhh!  After I figured this out the remote update went fine. The startup screen shows rev 5.0 just like it should.

Now my next problem is my Rev L TIU has 5.0 loaded and it shows up fine when queried by the remote. However my older Rev I3 remote won't show the software version after the upgrade, though the upgrade went ahead just the same. When I query it with the remote I get "Out of RF Range". So I tried tethering the remote to the TIU just in case the radio board has come loose somehow, and it shows "TIU Error". Might this mean that older rev TIU's can't load the 5.0 software for some reason?

I can't believe the amount of time this has taken so far, and I am no where near finished!

Rod

Rod,

When I query it with the remote I get "Out of RF Range". So I tried tethering the remote to the TIU just in case the radio board has come loose somehow, and it shows "TIU Error". Might this mean that older rev TIU's can't load the 5.0 software for some reason?

Any remote can handle any version of DCS. Period.

Further, TIU ERROR for a tethered remote is exactly the same message as OUT OF RF RANGE for an untethered remote.

The usual suspects are the following:

When untethered:

• A transceiver board in the TIU, remote or both is loose.

When tethered:

• The phone cord is 2-pin instead of 4-pin, or is otherwise defective.
• A pin in the TIU's Remote Input port or the remote's programming port is bent or shorted.

This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at OGR’s web store!

"The usual suspects are the following:

When untethered:

• A transceiver board in the TIU, remote or both is loose.

When tethered:

• The phone cord is 2-pin instead of 4-pin, or is otherwise defective.
• A pin in the TIU's Remote Input port or the remote's programming port is bent or shorted."

Thanks Barry. I tried reseating the xceiver board by wiggling it around and gently pushing it towards the main board, but no difference so far. I am going to try reloading the TIU software and see what happens. Maybe something did not go right the first time.

Rod

Rod,

Glad you got your system upgraded - the beers helped out + I reviewed Barry's comments then downloaded he detail upgrade directions - Fortunately in both cases I was doing it correctly - Vodoo magic, gremlins and cyber skills - Pow upgrade.

 I do believe the new drivers Alan provided did help too.

Kevin  

Many thanks Barry and Kevin for all the help. I finally got all 4 TIU's and 3 remotes upgraded to 5.0. I must say the level of frustration was extreme at times, and Kevin your beer suggestion was quite helpful.  The last time I upgraded was in mid 2010 to rev 4.10, and I kind of forgot over the intervening years what a production this can be.

I have no idea how many different arrangements of connections and power-up combinations I tried, but finally it all worked, and not necessarily the same for each. I don't have the Triplite adapter, so Alan's driver would not have worked of course. My USB adapter is another make and I have lost the driver CD in the interim. In the end a direct DB-9 M-F connection from the PC to the TIU was the best. I even tried a direct USB connection to my one Rev L TIU, using 2 different cables. No joy. And I still have one TIU that won't reveal its software version when queried, no matter what. I think it has 5.0 installed though; lord knows I did it enough times! Another discovery I made is that fresh batteries in the remote is almost a must.

A couple of times I could find and update the TIU without a problem, then had trouble doing the remote even though I used the exact same TIU and the exact same 232 cable, etc. I also tried a couple of different 4 wire phone cords to connect; no difference. It seems to me the most flakey part of this whole updating thing is whether the software will find the TIU or not. Sometimes it works, other times not, with no real apparent reason as to why. Multiple cycles of "...the software is having a hard time finding the TIU. Please check all connections and recycle the TIU power" gets really old.

Anyway its finally done. You just need lots of time and incredible patience!

Rod

Please check all connections and recycle the TIU power" gets really old  ==> Yes, it does, which was why the beers were required.

seem like more issues 

I'm worn out following this post...