TUI And Remote Upgraded To 5.0

The big issue for me with the remote upgrades is getting it started.  Even with a special clamp to hold the power button, it seems I usually get to cycle the power several times before it finally decides to run.  Forget about holding that button with your thumb for the whole upgrade, I get a cramp in my hand trying to do that!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The big issue for me with the remote upgrades is getting it started.  Even with a special clamp to hold the power button, it seems I usually get to cycle the power several times before it finally decides to run.  Forget about holding that button with your thumb for the whole upgrade, I get a cramp in my hand trying to do that!

This is the one bad part of the DCS upgrade procedure.  Even following the detailed instructions perfectly, and having a clamp for the button, it can take a few attempts to get the remote upgrade started successfully.   Last one I did took four starts.  Ugh.

Just as an FYI, it always takes at least a second press and release of the remote's power button before the remote update will start.

Although I've never inquired of MTH why this is the case, I suspect that it's intentional as some kind of interrogation or confirmation process, before commencing the actual upgrade.

If I'm doing a few upgrades holding the button is not that bad let's face it.  I still would have found a better way of initiating the upgrade if I were MTH but it's not going to kill you.

"Just as an FYI, it always takes at least a second press and release of the remote's power button before the remote update will start."

I thought it was just me. Thanks Barry, I feel better about this now. It's not like we have to upgrade that often but for me, my two tiu's upgrade with no problem. On the other hand the remotes seem to be a little more difficult.

Milwrd

FWIW:  Some remote's button has to be pressed below the case level, in which case a wide-fingered clamp that hits the side of the case won't do the job.  Thin-fingered clamps are available.

I have had several occasions where the remote updated on the first shot, and others that took many.  I also make power down the TIU between tries.

Barry's comment raises another question:  If a second try is "always" needed, when is a 2nd try actually a 1st try?  Only if the remote is powered down between tries?  What if TIU is powered down between tries?

Robert,

Only if the remote is powered down between tries? What if TIU is powered down between tries?

Nope, it always takes at least a second try (and typically for me only 2 tries total), even if it was the same remote being upgraded twice in a row. Every attempt to upgrade a remote seems to require a "double tap".

I've noted that I never get it on the first attempt, but now I know why.  I'd say about 2/3 of them go on the second attempt, but the rest will probably take one or two more tries.  I am sure the button is depressed, so there must be something obscure in the timing of the process that I'm missing.

I literally spent days getting three TIUs and three Remotes upgraded to the release before the latest one and after that experience, I'm hoping to never have to upgrade again!  Not having tablets or smart phones I'll pass on 5.0.

I do not know if I am missing the issue, but I have not had any trouble loading TIU and remotes.  I just follow the prompts from the loader.  So I have not experienced having to reload twice???  If your talking about pressing on/off twice, maybe, but again I just follow prompts.  G

That's what we're talking about George.  I've never had to reload after the remote gets a successful load, just have to turn on and off two or more times to get the process started.

Kerrigan posted:

I literally spent days getting three TIUs and three Remotes upgraded to the release before the latest one and after that experience, I'm hoping to never have to upgrade again!  Not having tablets or smart phones I'll pass on 5.0.

I share your pain! It took me 3 days (and several beers/glasses of wine) to get 4 TIU's and 3 handhelds upgraded to 5.0 And as gunrunner says the worst part seems to be just getting the process to start. Once started it seems to go fine, and I don't mind holding the handheld button down during the process. After all its only a minute or two.

The worst part is that inevitable ".....the software seems to be having a hard time finding the TIU. Please cycle the TIU power and try again." or words to that effect. It's about on the same level as travelling a new road and seeing the inevitable "Construction Ahead" sign. Ugghh.

Rod

Rod,

 ".....the software seems to be having a hard time finding the TIU. Please cycle the TIU power and try again."

I'll go out on a limb here and state that my opinion is that when this occurs, it's always never a DCS issue, per se. Rather, it's resolved by correcting a problem with one of the following:

• Following instructions exactly
• Replacing a defective or non-stereo 1/8" jumper cable
• Installing the correct driver for the serial to USB cable being used, or replacing the cable with one that's compatible with the version of Windows on the PC
• Using a current version of the DCS Loader Program
• Rebooting the PC to clear some internal-to-Windows issue
• A damaged or defective TIU.

Further, for remote software upgrades only:

• Replacing a defective or non-4-conductor telephone handset cable
• Straightening a bent or shorted pin in the remote's Programming port or the TIU's Remote Input port
• A stuck button on the remote's keypad
• Dead or very weak batteries in the remote
• A damaged or defective remote.

I may have omitted some other reason for the above stated issue, however, I've never seen a solution that required any modification to either DCS or the Loader Program.

This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at OGR’s web store!

The problem is usually the "can't find the port" issue and after many many restart attempts it might finally find it and do the downloading.  Have followed all the advice above, Barry, and it still is a major issue.  Having spent 40 years as an IT software designer and programmer, I offer the opinion is very poorly designed software.  It lacks recover ability and operational consistency with too many dead-end paths to the process.  It's ability to find an engine one time, and not find it the next in the same location ... etc.

Kerrigan,

 I offer the opinion is very poorly designed software. 

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

It's clear that you have difficulty getting the upgrade process to work. However, since the majority of others don't have any issues with it working, my opinion is different.

I and others have done literally thousands of upgrades over the past 10 years at the York DCS User Group Meetings using a variety of PC's and 1,000 different TIUs and remote. These upgrades were done by a dozen different individuals under the most primitive conditions.

The difference was that all of us knew what we were doing and followed the correct procedure.

It lacks recover ability and operational consistency with too many dead-end paths to the process.

I disagree. It does, indeed, have recovery capability:

• If it gets an error, it displays the error and allows you to either retry or cancel.

• If it gets stuck doing a sound file transfer, it automatically slows the transfer rate and retries.

Look at the variety of reasons that I enumerated above regarding all of the factors that can affect the process adversely. It'd be willing to bet that your particular issue(s) may be found in that list.

 If it works fine for some people and not for others, the issue is, more than likely, an environmental problem and not inherent within DCS. Anyone who has been in the IS industry would understand this.

I suspect the issue of the ports are probably to be laid at the feet of Microsoft.   OTOH, the update process isn't as smooth as it could be, but once you get a serial port properly identified in your Windows environment, the TIU is normally found without an issue.  My biggest issue seems to be the button on the remote for that upgrade.  I'm also spoiled by how quickly I can upgrade the Lionel Legacy remote.

Barry, I've done upgrades at the last 3 Yorks, and totally disagree that it was under "the most primitive conditions."  I do disagree with statements that it always takes 2 tries.  I've done many remotes and tiu's that worked on the first try, and somethat took many more.

I have a gentle reminder for those seeking to get upgrades at York:

PLEASE HAVE NEW BATTERIES IN THE REMOTE OR DON'T WASTE OUR TIME

Primitive conditions?  As long as you have an AC outlet and a PC and required cables you could do it in the woods let alone a ballroom. 

Robert,

I've done upgrades at the last 3 Yorks, and totally disagree that it was under "the most primitive conditions." 

Perhaps I should have said, instead of "most primitive" conditions, that we worked under "very ad hoc" conditions.  Additionally, things at the current location are a step up from when we did this stuff at Alexander's Restaurant in the back room. That was a bit of a goat roping exercise.  

I've done many remotes and tiu's that worked on the first try, and some that took many more.

The intent of my statement was to mean that it always takes two cycles of "hold down and release" the power button on the remote for the process to proceed, as long as one does everything else "by the book" and the equipment, cables, etc. are all in good shape. 

I, too, have had occasions when it took more than one try to get an upgrade done. However, each of those occasions had something that was different from the standard process or a bugaboo due to the environment. Once I found my mistake or corrected my environment (whatever the issue was), things proceeded smoothly. Regardless, I've never encountered a TIU or remote that couldn't be updated, as long as it was functional and didn't suffer from a hardware issue.

My point is that, whatever one wants to say about the DCS upgrade process, it does work. Further, if one is careful, one encounters a minimum of difficulties.

RJR posted:

 

PLEASE HAVE NEW BATTERIES IN THE REMOTE OR DON'T WASTE OUR TIME

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Rod,

 ".....the software seems to be having a hard time finding the TIU. Please cycle the TIU power and try again."

I'll go out on a limb here and state that my opinion is that when this occurs, it's always never a DCS issue, per se. Rather, it's resolved by correcting a problem with one of the following:

• Following instructions exactly
• Replacing a defective or non-stereo 1/8" jumper cable
• Installing the correct driver for the serial to USB cable being used, or replacing the cable with one that's compatible with the version of Windows on the PC
• Using a current version of the DCS Loader Program
• Rebooting the PC to clear some internal-to-Windows issue
• A damaged or defective TIU.

Further, for remote software upgrades only:

• Replacing a defective or non-4-conductor telephone handset cable
• Straightening a bent or shorted pin in the remote's Programming port or the TIU's Remote Input port
• A stuck button on the remote's keypad
• Dead or very weak batteries in the remote
• A damaged or defective remote.

I may have omitted some other reason for the above stated issue, however, I've never seen a solution that required any modification to either DCS or the Loader Program.

Barry; I concur. Always a good idea to read and reread the instructions. I think the problem for most of us (certainly for me anyway) is we do this so infrequently that you forget the finer details. The last upgrade I did before this one was to 4.10 in 2010.

And the comment "Dead or very weak batteries in the remote" is bang on. That caused repeated upgrade failures with one of my remotes, when another had just upgraded fine! Anyway all done for another few years I guess.

Rod

Team,

Here is a link to the issues I just had earlier in the month. Rod, you were one of the few responding.

 TIU & Com Port

Kevin 

Glad most don't have a problem, Barry.  Even following it step-by-step in your book, and/or the instructions, help, hints ...  it doesn't work most of the time.  The fact I WAS able to finally get it all upgraded to 4.3 after a lot of time and work indicates problems with the software's ability to find ports is an impediment.  Others have had less than sunny experiences upgrading DCS.  If I'd spent the countless hours with DCS inner workings and written a large book about it, perhaps I would not have so many problems upgrading.

Your mileage may vary of course.

4.3 works fine now and it's going to stay that way .... and let's leave it at that ...

Kerrigan, I don't think my experience varies from minute to minute, but my experience at York is that some updates go like a shot, first try, for both remote and TIU, and others take many retries.  It can't all be me, so I have to conclude there are differences in TIU and remote hardware and/or software, or in computers,  that are involved.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Robert,

I've done upgrades at the last 3 Yorks, and totally disagree that it was under "the most primitive conditions." 

Perhaps I should have said, instead of "most primitive" conditions, that we worked under "very ad hoc" conditions.  Additionally, things at the current location are a step up from when we did this stuff at Alexander's Restaurant in the back room. That was a bit of a goat roping exercise.  

I've done many remotes and tiu's that worked on the first try, and some that took many more.

The intent of my statement was to mean that it always takes two cycles of "hold down and release" the power button on the remote for the process to proceed, as long as one does everything else "by the book" and the equipment, cables, etc. are all in good shape. 

I, too, have had occasions when it took more than one try to get an upgrade done. However, each of those occasions had something that was different from the standard process or a bugaboo due to the environment. Once I found my mistake or corrected my environment (whatever the issue was), things proceeded smoothly. Regardless, I've never encountered a TIU or remote that couldn't be updated, as long as it was functional and didn't suffer from a hardware issue.

My point is that, whatever one wants to say about the DCS upgrade process, it does work. Further, if one is careful, one encounters a minimum of difficulties.

Sometimes the software won't go any further than can't find the port.  Microsoft, DCS, cables obsolete,... who knows .. maybe all of it.  It eventually worked and loaded 4.3 on everything but it took days of on and off attempts.  That it finally "hit" on it's magic combination and found a port eventually is almost as frustrating as it just not working at all.  Having to upgrade the PC operating system so it will work isn't really a good marketing angle ....  some people don't need the wireless aspect ... be wiser to stick with what works now.  I've had months of trouble-free running (mostly) since finally getting to 4.3 so why change/upgrade further.

Same with my TMCC ... friends steered me toward upgrading to Legacy although I don't own any Legacy equipment and probably won't.

Declined and my plain old TMCC continues to sail right along.

It just has trouble with all the different variations of computer/os/batteries/cables/experience ... re-try re-try re-try and then works indicates software .....

Can an update be done on a Mac?????Dare I ask??(LOL)!!!!!  I'm having enough trouble as it is with other things,but when it all works right......It's THE CAT"S MEOW!!!!!!Nothing can beat this system.

No, you cannot do this on a MAC. Actually, if you follow the conversion directions you can - but not recommened

Kenny,

Can an update be done on a Mac?

Yes, you can. However, you'll need to establish a Windows environment on the Mac using either Apple's Boot Camp (included with the operating system) or a Windows client such as Parallels or VM FusionWare.

From The DCS Companion 3rd Edition, page 135:

While it may be possible to run the DCS Loader Program on a non-Intel personal computer using some form of Microsoft Windows emulation, it is not recommended. However, the author has had great success running the DCS Loader Program on an Intel Macintosh computer using either Apple's Boot Camp or a Parallels virtual computer running Windows.

This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at OGR’s web store!