Union Station Products Lightweight Passenger Car Sides

Just got a prr 12 ,4 and a 12,5 duplex sleeper and 1, 4,4,2 if I can get the pics to show the details are crisp window frames are superb and they come with laser cut windows that fit perfectly flush. The quality of the laser cut is remarkable. 35. a car for obscure window prr cars is a bargain. I'll do my best to get pics up tomorrow

I liked what I saw. Getting the ends, roofs, and a suitable base might be an issue, but not insurmountable. All you need is a consist list to build your train.

That's a great review, they seem much better than I expected!  I hope you get the pictures up.  I'm very interested.

Well I must correct one thing , further  investigation of kit I was wrong on individual windows laser cut  they are a laser cut sub assembly that acts as a stiffener when added to the side strip, but the kit is wide open as to how you want to build it. The sides stock is 030 according to my caliper, ACF ends are available from Des Plaines in brass or plastic, and  Pullman streamline ends in white metal from keil line. Delta models has interior and underbody details like streamline bolsters. I personally will probably make a sub assembly myself of plastic to add for depth of interior when looking through the windows.

Also the hardest thing to source is a streamline roof blank.

Former sources for plastic lightweight passenger car roofs include ICC and Lightweight Car Company.  Is there a way to roll the area of the side below the floor level?  Even with brass sides this is tough to do - especially postwar cars with just a hint of roll between the trucks.  I do like the relief simulating the window and door trim.

Ed Rappe

William

How will you go about flaring in the sides below the floor, especially in the area of the vestibule.  If the sides are left straight they just won't look right, especially when coupled with properly shaped cars from other manufacturers.  As I recall ASC and ALW did this with curved lower side strips.  I like the look of the sides and the price is right.  I suspect one could capture the look of the small rivets on the sides of many ACF lightweight cars using those neat Archer resin rivet decal strips.

Ed Rappe

Between the car sides from Union Station and Williams component parts, this presents an interesting alternative. Despite my penchant for the third rail, one thing that has bugged me for some time is the generic nature of passenger cars. I have two scale-wheeled locomotives I'd like to find the right consist for and from what I've been learning from this side of the house, I'm more confident that I can build them.

I should have shot more pics the first time the inside of the blank has laser scores so you can lightly roll it on a dowel. The window strip has the laser scores also and looks like it could be used for a stiffener. I've got to finish both city of sleepers firt but you guys got me excited!

Some of us could use a Budd roof: Union Station offers the correct sides for the PRR 21-roomette car but without a fluted roof and Budd ends it's a non-starter.

If Union Station gets around to the rebuilt heavyweight cars used by the Cincinnatian I'd be pretty excited. Could sacrifice some GGD heavyweight cars and roll my own roof overlay. *sigh*

but without a fluted roof and Budd ends it's a non-starter.

Yep, I'd like to get the PS 10-6 sides (and roof and ends) to do the Seaboard Air Line "PORTSMOUTH" car:

Trucks are necessary too.  These cars used trucks made with disc brakes (style DN-41) vice trucks modified for disc brakes (style ND-41).  I haven't found any DN-41 trucks yet.

Aren't the Atlas Zephyr cars a Budd prototype?

Aren't the Atlas Zephyr cars a Budd prototype?

I suppose so, but I'm not up to cutting them up, just yet.

I have a MAC Shops kit for the Budd 21-roomette car; it's OK, but the Al sides are thick and so it would be more work than I care to devote in order to have flush windows.

I bend brass by making a male and female jig - a wood slot and a long steel dowel, plus a couple of C clamps.  Picture a UP Centipede tender.

Maybe this idea would work for these sides if you heat the steel dowel a bit, then carefully apply the C clamps? Just a thought.  I agree - all the flush windows in the world will not cure a straight skirt.  They did not occur in nature like that.

I do not think there is yet a decent fluted roof aluminum extrusion available yet but for smooth roof/sided cars replacing the sides should be workable for both the roof and the skirts.

I think OK Engines will sell lengths of extrusions if someone wants to try.

Alexander and then Midland did a Budd roof.  It might not work, because it included the letterboard.  At this point, the urethane idea is best.

OK Engines has Budd carbody extrusions with fluting on the sides and roof.  Their Pullman carbodys have fluted sides and smooth roofs.

I have 3 of their Budd cars (in 3-rail), one was modified to represent the Sun-Lounge cars Seaboard owned by removing every other flute above the window (up to the curve of the roof) and making the roof smooth.  I did this using a Dremel and a load of hand tools, took me forever (not sure I'd do it again).

I was going to get one of their Pullman carbodys to make the 10-6 car PORTSMOUTH, but the fluting on the roof is not the Pullman type, but the Budd type (if you look closely the PORTSMOUTH had fluting on the roof).  That would mean removing every other flute on the roof (insert above statement here).  I don't have a mill and I don't have the hands of a brain surgeon, so until someone offers a Pullman roof I'll do without.

MikeG (aka PRR Trainguy) made some nice looking ends for his OK cars a while back.  The original OK ends are a simple piece of bent aluminum with doors, not very detailed.  When I built my cars I purchased only the carbody extrusion and the plastic film they offer for the windows (slides into the body in a "U" shape).  I made my own floors, interiors, ends (simple, flat design for now), and doors.  I used either GGD trucks or K-Line trucks and PSC diaphragms, along with Kadee long-shank couplers.

So, roofs, doors, ends, and trucks are much needed, but there's so many varieties of the prototype where would a company start (hopefully with some nice stuff for Seaboard Air Line )???

OKs extrusions are about 1/16" thick (not counting the fluting), quite heavy.  I thought I had some better photos of my cars, but these are all I have at the moment:

Thanks for posting this marker, I had not heard about this outfit and agree with aterry that the price is a bargain for a specific cut pattern, lord knows you can burn a lot of time cutting your own sides. It's too bad Vane Jone's ICC line isn't around and selling the PS roof, floors and end piece as needed. Perhaps the ever pending ALW rejuvenation will fill the need.

Anyway, I'm liking what I'm seeing here.

Pete

I wish I would get more orders.

Regards william---Delta Models

William, for what its worth, I've gone to your website several times, only to have it lock up my browser each time, so I bail out. You may want to re-examine how the pages load. I know it's not my desktop causing the problem.

John thanks for your information. I am sorry you are having a problem.

What browser are you using?  I am using Mozilla and do not have any issues getting it to load. I also have High speed inter net as well.

I have never had it locked up on me. I am using windows 7 as well. My other computer has windows XP on it no issues.

I have had people tell me that it loads slow for them, but I think that is due to all the pictures that are high resolution and will take time for some people.

So I do not know what else to tell you.

I would be glad to send you our most up dated catalog if you like. Just send me your Email address and I can send you a PDF copy of it.

Regards  William Basden---Delta Models

I just tried it with firefox and safari on my mac with no problems.

And Chrome on Windows 7 works fine as well. Will you be at the Chicago meet this month William?

Or, try and find out about the old ICC cars for floors ends and roofs.

I recall based on an earlier post here from the owner of the reincarnate ALW they're suffering from getting a good quote on the molded roofs. Their order being too small to interest the contracting shops for same. I hope he gets this ironed out.

But per Bob Delbridges's photo and my brother's experience with a recently ordered  custom cut PS car from them, think OK Engines is the next big thing for road specific lightweight psgr cars from custom cut extrusions. Really.

Opinion, but VERY impressed. My understanding is they're working out the kinks with packing and shipping the end product, but it's hard to discount the value there given the alternative of having to do one yourself. I personally intend to order a pair of CRI&P Golden State PS cars from them, though may ask them to skip on the door cut-out in favor of milling the side for that myself.

A GREAT development for those of us who LIKE this particular kit form.

Pete

Am making progress in research on the depressed center underframe for my duplex cars, any underbody pics or diagrams would be greatly appreciated. Car ends are available from Keil line models ,they have Pullman streamlined ends in castmetal as well as just about everything you might need for details for streamline and heavyweight pass cars. Delta  Models has interior pieces as well as new car ends for streamline cast in resin, and Des Plaines hobbies has ACF ends in resin or brass. The roofs if you can find them are on ebay, usually in bass or cedar. I found mine by asking on the forum. Also for clerestory roof blanks in bass?wood Northeastern scale lumber makes a superb one, they used to make streamline roof blanks in O but stopped. Maybe with renewed interest they would again, I know I would by 10, 20 if necessary. Now If I could only find a blunt end observation kit or otherwise. Hope this helps those hunting

Good lightweight cars were a problem up until 1990 or so.  We had Kasiner, B-C, CRC, and the plastics.  Clark Benson chose the wrong Lionel extrusion for Budd, and Haynes MacDaniel did pretty darn good by the Budd type.

Then all of a sudden, they came out of the woodwork.  You could seemingly get anything you wanted for a price.  All of the importers had high end cars.  K-Line wrote the book for inexpensive approximations, and Lionel and Wasatch did the same for extremely high end cars.  Sunset is now carefully covering the bases.  I have long strings of lightweight cars, all metal, from Budd right through very accurate Daylight extrusions, in about six totally different paint schemes.

I do not envy those of you starting out with sides and looking for roofs and ends - you are where the rest of us were a quarter century ago.  But a hobby is a hobby, and I say "go for it".  I bet you can find a cabinet shop or molding manufacturer who would be happy to make some roofs.  If you were willing to do some sanding, I could do the darn things on my table saw.  I have done heavyweight arch roofs in the past.

I suspect my fleet of lightweights is big enough to earn me the title of near insane, but I still have ten extruded blanks to cut.  Someday.  Not soon.

Good luck!

Good info there, thanks I did not know DSPH offered the Kemtron ends in resin.

As an aside on your first note; I tried to do a pre-war 12-5 based on what I thought was a partially finished BC-K though now I'm not so sure what this was to begin with. It's likely 17/64 too. And yeah, getting good underbody layout info on these cars (either pre or the post war 12-4version) is really hard; the drop skirts don't make it easy to suss it out from photos either.  

Pete

atlpete excellent photo of 12-5 got any more?, possibly an underbody shot?, or maybe any research ideas I've virtually lived on the Pullman site to no avail. Am told restored 12-5, or 4 is restored in KC been trying to find info gonna be there in 2 weeks from today and want to crawl around underneath if possible. Will start posting pics of frame build soon.

William

I have an ICC lightweight 85' passenger car plastic roof and floor that I bought years ago for a car project that's no longer on my to do list.  If you want them email me what you think they are worth to you and they are yours. My email address is in my profile.

Ed Rappe

I've been looking at the ScanNcut machine [ by Brother ] as a possible way of making custom window / door patterns on car sides.  It looks like it neatly avoids the "programming" part:  It has a built in scanner, and you run through a full size drawing of what you want;  then it cuts it out of the material, which it will take up to 24"lengths -- perfect.  I'm thinking the material would then be adhesived [ I made that word up ] to clear 'plastic' for the complete side.  Of course a kit or built up car would have to be sacrificed as the core.

   $399, + some accessories, tax, shipping -- lets say $500.00 capital cost.

Anybody have experience with 2D printers like this ?

SZ

then it cuts it out of the material

SZ, Your post got me interested so I Googled ScanNCut.

The maximum thickness they say it can cut is 1.5mm (.059"), almost 1/16" (.062").  But I couldn't determine what type of material, other than paper or cloth, can be used.  Sure would be nice if it would cut styrene.

Here's a pdf file I found online that shows what it'll cut, but it didn't indicate the thickness:

http://gentlemancrafter.files....t-list-version-2.pdf

Here's the "official" spec sheet:

http://www.brother.ca/VirData/...et_final_revised.pdf

This may work if you can use a piece of .030 thick plastic, cut out the windows of a passenger car side, and glue it to a thicker, clear plastic core.

These sides are great.  You would think that all 1950s streamliners were pretty much the same, at least within the Budd and Pullman Standard categories, but in fact just about every railroad ordered its own variant on the theme, and these sides are EXACTLY according to prototype.  The fluting comes as separate strips and is also exactly as per prototype.

I made a mistake on my first order and got a Bangor and Aroostook set instead of Boston & Maine.  Even though both were PS, the window arrangement was slightly different, and there were were different styles of PS fluting.  All this was reflected in the Union Station kit.  Since I am building a Boston to Portland train of the 1950s, I can mix in a couple of Maine Central and Bangor and Aroostook cars.   The latter were part of through trains known as the AROOSTOOK FLYER and the POTATOLAND EXPRESS.  You can't make this stuff up.

Bruce