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need help can anyone that has taken this VL Big Boy apart identify these 2 wires? this again is how I received this from repair!

also this engines boiler now jerks when transitioning from curved to a straight track its as if it gets caught up on? I cannot see what it is or is it possibly binding when on the track where the steam tubes pivot on the 2 screwed in assemblies.

I have set on work bench and it all seems to pivot freely I have oiled all pivot points made sure all screws are tight. anyone that is using the 072 curve track can you tell me if the boiler pivots easily without any binding on your engine.

when mine gets halfway into pivoting back to straight it will rise a tad and then boiler will drop down a good 1\8-1\4 inch I cannot see anything that its hitting or riding over on. are there any spacers or that might be missing from reassembly? that might have been left out when the NC repair replaced the front headlight assembly?  returning to lionel repair a 4th time not an option thats all I care to say on that.

I have checked curved track all is good mind you this was not an issue prior to last return for repair. 

If this comes off as a rant or a flame please believe me its not meant nor am I meaning it to be.

all lights markers steam whistle main smoke and blowdown are functional so have no idea what those 2 wires were or are for!

thanks for any help on these latest 2 issues.

 

 

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gunrunnerjohn posted:

Maybe they didn't look at that side of the locomotive?

GunruunerJohn, I included a note stating the black wire was hanging out from under the boiler at front driver set how more explicit can one be? and where did the red wire come from? Wasn't there when I returned it the 3rd time.

I believe your correct in this engine must be snake bitten! that or like cars it was built on a monday!!

How is it you ended up with 2 vl big boys loaded with problems?

Your other thread, i.e. the 11449 bb was sent back 3 times too.

I can't remember if Lionel ever offered you a refund on either, but I would have jumped at the chance.

At this point it might be better to get in touch with Marty F. or Alex M. and let them have a go at it.

 Otherwise, theres no way any vl product is worth this much aggrivation.

If you "must have"  a big boy, maybe an older Lionel or an MTH model would be a better option.

 

PSU1980 posted:

If Lionel sent it back to you that way - go right back to them and advise the result of the repair they will fix it properly - don't touch it - get / request the RMA and include the picture. They will handle it.  Talktous@Lionel.com. Reference the previous repair.

Picture is worth a thousand words.

after 4 times I do believe I'll wait until after January 1st 2017 and send to a 3rd party repairman for any further repairs.

Chuck may be correct.   To confirm this, do the following.  Set your meter to continuity and touch the red wire with one probe and the rear roller with the other.  If you have continuity, roller wire confirmed.  Do the same with the black wire.  Touch the wire with one probe and any ground with the other. 

I have worked on many of these VL Big Boys and they are very simple to deal with.  

FWIW, Mike Reagan has not been in charge of repairs for a very long time.  He has moved up in management as he should with his expertise.  Dean Brasseur has been in charge of the repairs for a long time.

 

StPaul posted:
romiller49 posted:

Come on now. That's absurd. Contact Mike R. Let us know the result.

Rod Miller

I had sent a email to above person nary a response that was 2 months ago nuff said.

It is posted after this post that Mike R. is no longer in the repair dept. FWIW, I had a similar, but even LOOONGER experience with Mike, when he WAS in Customer (NON)Service.

Doug

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

FWIW, Mike Reagan has not been in charge of repairs for a very long time.  He has moved up in management as he should with his expertise.  Dean Brasseur has been in charge of the repairs for a long time.

 

So what?  MR's email address still works and he could have had the courtesy of replying to this poor guy with the VLBB problems and in that same note copying the guy who should be on top of the issue.  This is like my "second tier" restaurant pet peeve.  I need something and the assigned wait-person is nowhere to be seen, so I ask another wait-person whose only reply is "sorry, I'm not your wait-person."  Newsflash - I didn't come to the restaurant for the wait-person.  The overall experience is what dictates whether I want to return.  

And, FWIW, I had an experience with the Lionel guy in charge of customer service almost 2 years ago.  He was looking into a situation and voluntarily promised to get back to me soon ... Still waiting. 

RickO posted:

How is it you ended up with 2 vl big boys loaded with problems?

Your other thread, i.e. the 11449 bb was sent back 3 times too.

I can't remember if Lionel ever offered you a refund on either, but I would have jumped at the chance.

At this point it might be better to get in touch with Marty F. or Alex M. and let them have a go at it.

 Otherwise, theres no way any vl product is worth this much aggrivation.

If you "must have"  a big boy, maybe an older Lionel or an MTH model would be a better option.

 

My apologies I incorrectly used the item # in the other post this is same engine from that post item 6-11436 I should go and correct the other posts item #. 

Ironically I sold a mth imperial big boy 4 months prior to pre ordering this one. unfortunately if I do send to Marty F or Alex and something goes awry electronic wise then Lionel will do as before and say it's been tampered with frankly all Lionel service stations should be able to fix all warranty repairs VL or whatever.

Marty F I will do the wire check with meter and post findings sometime Monday.

thanks again all but now you know why I nic named it Bad Boy! On a good note at least the engine responds to all cab-2 commands and headlight is working and the RCMC board is still happy so gained 3 but lost 3 so a break even deal.

far as I know still no parts diagram online at Lionel? as at least I could see all the parts that allow the front driver's to pivot the boiler assembly and see what might be missing or the cause of this. 

it seems like another screw and spring holds truck assembly from within the BB I wonder if it's loosened up and allowing more up and down travel? 

 

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

I am a certified Lionel repair tech.  I work on VL locomotives.   I do not tamper with them.    I have total confidence in the Lionel service center.  I have seen the situation with your wires before.  

Here is what I feel you might have going on.  The front truck assembly hooks to the locomotive by a large screw on the rear of the truck.  The truck has an arm on top of it with a spring and washer that goes into a slot that is mounted on the locomotive shell.  The top of the arm is bent at 90 degrees to keep the spring and washer in place.   This assembly swings in a slot as the front truck goes into a curve.  If the locomotive is taken out of it's box and the front truck not supported by hand and allowed to hang down, the spring and washer might pull out and drop the driver assembly tearing the wires from the truck like you show in your photo.  I have seen this and the fix is simple. 

I do not lift large engines out of the box as damage can happen.  I like to lay the box face down and lift the box off the engine.

When your engine seems jerky going into curves it is because the spring/guide mechanism is not in place and the driveshaft may be binding.  You will see this on curves and not straight track.

this is good information on handling our locomotives.

Marty Fitzhenry  thanks for the information on removing engine from the box! also I will see if the spring assembly you mention is detached.

as to the wires I powered the track up but not the Bad Boy here are the readings touching meter probe to track common and other probe to black wire with red stripe and the plain black wire 

black wire with red stripe is 18.18 volts  black wire is 0.010 volts

engine powered up readings are black wire with red stripe is 17.03 volts so will assume that is a power truck wire?

black wire is 0.110 volts haven't a clue as to what that wire is for!

I reread your post so set meter so when probes touched they made an audible sound so then I setup alligator clips to black/red stripe wire and connected to front roller assembly then attached another alligator clip to red striped wire supplying hot power touch both sets of blind drivers to negative probe and heard the meter sound off I did this with the rear driver as well same results.

the black wire is another story I did connect it same as the other wire but no sound from meter and a whisp of smoke from middle of boiler so stopped power! I have no idea why it smoked but all lights are working and engine still powers up. main smoke whistle smoke and blowdown smoke is working can turn headlight on/off also the 4 small lights on side of boiler cab light works can turn clarification lights on/off as well as the rear tender lights so other than running around layout all appears to be okay after the black wire smoke episode!

so guess to see if all power rollers are working best way I know is to lay engine on its side and use alligator clips and see if engine powers up from each of them. okay rear set of engine power rollers both are working  and engine powers up, but both power rollers on front set of drivers are dead no power at all no power up of engine! 

so next question if the front drivers are not powered could this be why the boiler is acting erratic when maneuvering out of a curve to a straight track?

also I was able to see the bolt spring is still connected into the boiler and the driver assembly will not pull away from it and I see what I believe to be the driveshaft or? that supplies power to the front set of divers from the main motor all appears to be connected.

if any of this unclear just ask me to clarify a bit or a whole lot more and i will do so.

 

Last edited by StPaul

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okay folks I have identified the issue there appears to be a large plastic tube with a long spring attached to it and it pivots some but it seems the simulated steam tubing has to ride up and over it and this is whats causing the boiler to jerk  when returning to its normal position after a curve.

so our forum techs whats the cure as it should or so I would assume the steam tube piping that pivots above it should pivot over that large tube in middle of boiler? or is the large tube supposed to move over farther allowing the steam piping to pivot over further?

also drivers both front and rear the rear set of flanged drivers want to ride up and over the outer rail on a curve this never was an issue before am using same 072 curves that i installed prior to december 2015 and all worked fine until now!

any help appreciated

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Last edited by StPaul

MartyFitz - thanks for the detailed post on how to handle these large locomotives. I think conventional wisdom (and fear of hurting such a pricey item) has me holding the front and rear trucks - but now I know I should. I like the method you've laid out for removing locomotives from the container box. 

I also agree with Rod Miller - I'd send it back or have a certified service person advocate for me. 

Peter

Lionel does NOT allow their authorized service stations to work on vision line or lion chief products. PERIOD.  Have a good friend here in Freehold, NJ who is an authorized service station who does excellent repairs and restoration work. He cannot get parts for either if he needed them. Lionel will not sell or swap parts or boards on these items.

Call Lionel for that big boy repair. Since it will be a 4th trip back to them, you should ask for a refund. This is not worth the BS on an $2000 engine!

A couple of items, I had an issue with my Conrail Heritage Legacy SD70 - like 4 times. Lionel did buy it back but I could not find another one. The issues were electronic. 

Ted is correct,  Lionel doesn't always allow for dealers to repair these units - unfortunately it needs to go back. Yes, there are some folks, Marty F. and Alex M. that maybe able to work on it.

As I mentioned above, send Lionel an email with your request. 

K

Last edited by PSU1980

Ted, I work on Vision line and Lion Chief products.   Your information is not correct.  I have been to the Lionel school and average 400 locomotives worked on each year.    I do not look for any work from the forum.  Let the guys who advertise get that work.  I do all the Legacy, Vision, and Lion Chief plus for Charles Ro.  Charles Ro sells a few trains each year.

I am constantly approached by email to do work and I usually refuse.   Sometimes I feel bad refusing but try to stay with the Charles Ro repairs.  I also see repairs on MTH, Weaver, williams, and many others.  I have seen a big decrease in Lionel board issues with the appearance of the RCMC boards.  I am a big fan.  

Ted, remember "Go Pats"

Last edited by Marty Fitzhenry
Marty Fitzhenry posted:

StPaul, I have seen that with a few locomotives.  The pipe is a simulated steam transfer pipe.  I find the springs to be a bit on the saggy side.  I cut a few coils off the spring and cover the spring with heat shrink tubing.  A loose fit with the heat shrink is desired.

doesn't help when one kinda sorta stretches them also! a long day will try your cut a few coils off and use the shrink tubing idea. I also notice there is a stop made for that steam tube and the spring seems to want to hang on it when boiler is at far left position on my 072 curves. I think a shorter spring and possibly putting the inner eyelet on top of that steam tube might have cured the spring hanging on that metal stop.

both wires are attached to front power roller and the ground wire I soldered the wires to the existing eyelet connectors so front truck gets track power and common ground again.

I think most forum members are confused as once warranty is up on VL or anything else we are free to use 3rd party lionel authorized repair stations or anyone else we feel are capable of doing needed repairs. these engines are 3 months and some days away from that and maybe lionel will finally load an exploded diagram of the entire engine and parts so we can use as a reference as to what is supposed to be used and where.

I also cured the boiler from not turning smoothly when transitioning from a curve to a straight track and it was that steam tube I tightened the screw that holds it to the frame and poof issue went away amazing.

as to the heat shrink I assume by a loose fit meaning the heat shrink should not be snug so it and spring can move as needed separately from each other and that it only acts so as spring cannot catch on anything do I understand you correctly?

 

Last edited by StPaul

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