What age demographic should O Gauge Manufacturers concentrate on?

Well, the average age of TCA members is 65. I'd say that the demographic most likely "should be" 45-65. 

Just my $0.01 on this one (not worth my usual $0.02)

Gilly

Who is buying the O Gauge Train Sets around holidays and who is operating them.

Traditional O Gauge products have a different target than the big O Scale Steam Locomotives and freight cars.

Andrew

Being in the 20 year olds group I say they are doing a good job getting us with the Lionchief. The new Scout set is the first o gauge train Set I have ever purchased. looking at it Lionel is very price competitive with most HO offerings now. Something I find a bit curious. I see space and frequent moves as the biggest issues for my age group along with cost.

Here is one viewpoint:

The manufacturers should continue catering to the baby-boomers who are now "waxing nostalgic" as they grow older.  We have moved every market we have touched...from baby food to housing to artificial hips and knees.  Give us what we want for about another decade.  We want to see the road names, locos, and rolling stock we used to see as youngsters before merger-mania took them away.  

Don't worry about the new generation going into N and HO...when they get older, less nimble fingered, and visually challenged they will migrate to O gauge.  

I was into O-27 as a kid.  Then I went to HO for a very long time.  I returned to O gauge when I was 60.  I spent a lot of money on O during the last ten years.

I think the target market for O gauge is 50+.  I say this because by the time a person is 50 they usually have a house that could house an O gauge layout, their major child raising years are over and they have some disposable income to spend on the hobby.  At least this seems to be the demographics of most of the people that I know in the O gauge hobby.

I also think that people need to be exposed to trains when they are younger than 50.  I don't know anyone over 50 who is starting in trains for the first time in their life.  Most people have at least touched the hobby when they were younger and then returned to it.

Joe

O-Gauge has always been a fairly expensive.  I understand why people starting out in their early 20's, especially working minimum wage jobs would not be able to afford it. Still though they could aim at young professionals that by their late 20's and early 30's would be making decent wages.  I think MTH has the right idea with the Railking Scale diesels being around $300 because it is fairly reasonable price compared to spending upwards of a $1,000 on some scale locomotives.  Space though especially in urban areas can be an issue though so I understand why N-Gauge is so popular especially in countries were space is a premium.  You can still build a pretty good shelf layout in O-Gauge in not alot of space. 

50-65

Old guys with lots of money?

I don't know what their long range plan and outlook might be...but, once us old guys die off...I believe the O gauge market as we know it will cease to exist.

Yes...yes...easy to be a gloom and doom guy...but, for whatever it was worth...I worked in schools...and I didn't see or hear of any up and coming model railroaders of any type...there had to be a few...but, not enough to sustain this big bucks hobby.

If Apple were to get into it...or...the trains were labeled..."Smart Train" as in smart-phone, smart-car, smart-water...some of the younger folks might buy some because they were labeled that way.

Seems like this subject gets chewed on a lot, but is not digestible.  While I don't know

what is going on in young families' houses, and their kids' interests, all the other kinds

of toys that I grew up with are only collectors' items.  I don't think that many of todays' kids have, as I, cousins with trains, and a depot and tracks down at the end of the block.  Nor are they walking through Sears and Woolworth's exposed to running holiday loops of three rail and Flyer.  And yet trains do get publicized a lot, families

ride the Cass and the Silverton, it sounds like the Cass is expanding, which means more interest and riders to support it.  I just have no clue how much will rub off.

 I do think the hobby is safe for now....

Most guys like to own and play with these toys.

In the future, I don't know. What I see are a lot of kids into electronics and probably would be happier with computer games.

 The coolist thing I have experienced, was having the grandkids lay on the floor and page through the catalogs looking at each page with excitement. It's what I would have done when I was a kid, decades ago! The magic is still there. They love to play with the trains downstairs. So exposure to the hobby for the youngest fans, is what will make it last.

 For all the guys who work so hard to haul all their equipment into the shows, I salute you!! Show a young kid a train, and you'll see if the magic is there. Their eyes will light up with excitement if they like it. Once lit, that fire will kindle until they grow older and have the time. They'll replace us.

my heart says go after the 30 something crowd, but judging by the crowd at York and at some of the local shows, Maybe they should target AARP publications

B I N G O ! ! !

Well as you old guys die off, we become the old guys

Yes...but, what do you figure the ratio of "you guys" to "we guys" to be...20 of we old ones to every one of you young ones?

This is what I like in O gauge, there is rolling stock for every budget:

- Thomas train for little kids and young parents

- O27 (rugged rails) for 14+ kids and adults with little space and small budget

- real scale for senior modelers with bank deposits and plenty of space

- tinplate for much richer collectors

My son is 26 and likes trains. My grand daughter was just born. They are looking for a house. There is presently no room for a layout in any scale. He likes HO and has bought some MTH items and brought them to my house to store. When he lived with me, he started an HO layout. Its still in existence. I haven't touched it for years. Neither has he. He was here this week-end and told me we will finish it, even if he has to take a  week off. The issue is I do not have a week to take off, because I am paying a lot of their bills.

Moral: A lot of things have to intersect at the same time and place to get a train layout going. When my son gets his first house, he will have more room, but that is only a part of the underpinnings needed. However, he is optimistic and this is why he continues to buy product, but it is HO. Probably because he will inherit my O and gauge 1 trains.

So, we try the NEXT generation. Here is my 4-month old grand daughter getting the treatment.

I grew up with both HO and O gauge. A combination of cost, and always fiddling with my layout made O work better. I am more of the cover the floor, or table with new layouts every once and a while person. The shear challenge of working with o gauge in a small space I find rather fascinating. I like Lionchief from it being way simpler in a world of complicated electronics (I enjoy simple) and more affordable than other forms of remote control. most importantly I felt invited to enjoy trains by Lionel and the people who make this hobby possible.

...if limited space available, then Z scale is better than N...

...if no space available, then computer simulation is the only option (MSTS or AuranTrainz)...

...in every gauge and every scale there are cheap and expensive brands on the market for every budget...

To conclude, the O gauge manufacturers should focus on the age range 40-70, if not 45-65.

I think they are doing exactly what they should; making high end stuff for the 50+ crowd (they are the ones with money, at least compared with other age groups), and cheaper sets for kids.

Well let's see folks, the Polar Express set is the best selling single train set in the entire history of Lionel, according to Lionel. The first year the set was introduced, they were unable to meet the actual demand for the set.

So what age group is buying the Polar Express?

Given the lengthy run of all the various 4-4-2 steam engine "Flyer" sets, I'd be willing to bet those varied "Flyer" sets are right up there in sales figures.

So what age group was buying these sets?

Given the production numbers I'm aware of for the traditional types of Lionel products versus the new Built-To-Order status of many high-end products, where is Lionel making their real profit margins?

Lionel's Matt Ashba said at the TCA presentation that Lionel was doing BTO in order to meet demand of these products. Which was really a very polite way of saying they can't afford to make too many and have them wind up as blow outs, no doubt due to their higher expense to produce and lower margins.

Lionel has a very diverse market, witnessed on this very forum. Read a thread on what Lionel should make, and you'll read page after page of totally different ideas.

Younger people who are into Lionel trains may have other time constraints, like jobs, families, kids, etc. They have a simple train layout. It's a hobby, not an all-consuming life-style. They're not on the train forums all day, every day, save for when they have a problem or need information. Even then, they may just read posts, and not make them.

No doubt, when you go to a train show like YORK, it is mostly older middle aged men. But again, people with a family train layout may not have the money or the free time to make a trip to YORK, never mind joining the TCA first. I've been to more localized train shows that advertise operating train layouts, and there ARE lots of young families and kids in attendance. And I see them leaving with starter sets, extra track, used MPC rolling stock, and other related kinds of products.

You can't make blanket assumptions about Lionel's over all customer market based upon the age demographic of this forum or the kinds of advanced, more premium Lionel products discussed on this forum.

And fortunately for the future of Lionel, I think the folks running Lionel are quite aware of this fact. I think the sole reason for all the emphasis on the high end products is NOT because it is the largest portion of Lionel's sales, BUT because it is the most vocal segment of Lionel's buying market.

We got into this hobby when we were kids. Lionel made record sales because of the Post War boys who were turning 8 between 1953 and 1957. Granted the high end item attract grown men. Look at the 1937 scale items. They were not for 8 year olds. The future of ths hobby is based on attracting the moms of young boys and girls who understand what trains can do for developing the minds of their young boys and girls.

I do volunteer work with STEM enrichment programs and it is sad to learn that todays youth are missing the physical science and mathematics world trains gave me at a young age. Catalogs help develop reading. Layout building develop basic math and basic geometry knowledge. Wiring your layout and caring for your locomotive developed basic electricity knowledge. That is what playing with electric trains gave me between the ages  of 8 and 10.

The vast majority of sales, in terms of volume and dollars, are starter sets.  Most people will perhaps buy some track, some rolling stock, but that's about it.  The smaller segment of the hobby is the high end and serious hobbyist.  They disproportionately account for high sales per person.  But overall it's the sets that make Lionel the volume and dollar leader is my educated guess.  LionChief Plus is for the small percentage of folks who progress beyond the train set stage, and for those more interested in traditional sized, relatively economical (not cheap) trains.  The Vision Line stuff is made in hundreds or low thousands, compared with the high tens or hundreds of thousands of train sets from Lionel.  At this point, they are the only purveyor of a complete line of products from $150 train sets to $2,000 high end locos and everything in between.  MTH comes close, but has missed the boat at the low end by pricing themselves out of the beginner market with sets that begin around $300, which is probably above what a lot of folks are willing to spend for a circle of track and a train.  While it's great to have command control and full features in the low end models, it prices a fair number of people out of the market.  This shows in set sales, which are 20:1 or more in Lionel's favor according to some retailers.

At this point, once again, without Lionel and its brand name visibility, the hobby would be restricted to the nostalgia crowd buying high end stuff and vintage stuff.  So watch Lionel for indications of what's selling and what's not selling. Just look at the catalogs .  But in terms of who they are targeting, it's everyone from toddlers to geezers like me.

67 year olds 

The future of this or any hobby is in youth, exposure today leads to interest tomorrow.

Marketing towards any customer who cannot afford your product is pure stupidity, those in any age group with limited income (min wage earners or those on limited incomes due to underfunded retirements). Consumer data shows that most Americans have limited earning in their early working years and most Americans have saved significantly less than they will need in retirement, both ends are or will soon be out priced.

Picking a single age based demographic to market towards is a very outdated way of thought and will cause one to lose out on a majority of possible new customers, while watching the existing client base fall year over year.

Market toward those who can afford trains, and sell the value to specific groups within that broader market. Trains in and of themselves have no value to parents or kids, the value must be shown, and shown differently to both children and adults.

Well as you old guys die off, we become the old guys

......And buy all of your trains!

I say market to 30-40 year olds with children as a hobby to spend time working/building as a family.

There you go!!!!  F O L L O W   T H E   M O N E Y  ! ! !

When Matt Ashba was at the TCA presentation, he also said (my paraphrase here) that though many want to see the new scale products, they also try to bring some items from the broader line of Lionel products... which is the traditional line.

It's a broader line, because they sell MORE of it.

So when you guys say BINGO, follow the money, I guess you're saying Lionel should pull back on the scale products and focus on the traditional ones, where they DO make their money.

Again, it's only partly an age demographic. It's much more a case of making products that appeal to the broadest range of possible buyers. I'm sure it has taken both YOUNG and OLDER buyers to make Polar Express the success it has been.

If the higher end products were the only real source of Lionel's revenue, then the high end products would be made in the ten's of thousands, like the traditional products INSTEAD of Built To Order.

Yes. Follow the money and lets see a new semi-scale 027 compressed type of current modern locomotive tooled up for starter sets.

By 'FOLLOW THE MONEY' they mean follow the profit.  400 traditional boxcars may have slim margins and yield less profit than 100 scale/detailed box cars.  Without knowing Lionel's margin on each item, you cannot jump to your conclusions above.

Its the NET, not the GROSS.

Maybe they need to make more items available for the used market? Then they could market to the train show/flea market attendee demographic! Kinda like when movies bypass theaters and go straight to video.  LOL

To do it right, it's always been a rich man's hobby.  I think to two biggest detriments coming down the rails is the passing of the boomers, and further diversification of the O-gauge hobby i.e. 2 rail cutting more and more into the 3 rail market, understandably so (IMHO).  Manufacturers will struggle with a widening, more demanding niche, and ultimately drop out of the race.  Prices will continue to increase due to an even more shrinking niche market.  I hate to sound negative, but young people don't have the disposable income or experience the wow factor in trains as with R/C cars and flying objects.  I have some modern engine types and husky stacks, but truthfully, I get real bored real fast watching husky stacks and auto racks go by.  For some reason I can watch coal trains and mixed merchandise all day!  I think its winding down folks, unless you got incredibly deep pockets!  To the OP's question, the old, the rich, and the crazy!

Stack

"What age demographic should O Gauge Manufacturers concentrate on?"

My suggestion would be the 0 - 100 age group!

We are a niche market and the manufacturers have a good grasp on what they can sell.  For example, Lionel and MTH make starter sets for folks coming into the hobby and more expensive trains for those who have been around for a while.

We even have a niche market within the O gauge niche market.  Sunset/3rd Rail does a great job of targeting this market.

The train companies have their historical sales data and seem to do a good job of understanding the marketplace.  If they didn't, they would no longer be in business.  So, I'm not gonna tell them how to run there businesses. I'll just continue to buy what I like!

Jim

40 on up.