1/43 vs 1/48 autos

A devious plot to be sure, but a lot of the better 1:43 stuff is produced in Europe (or at least thats where the companies are...) and I believe 1:43 is basically scale for them. Don't get me wrong - I'd love to see more quality 1:48.  I run semi-scale, so the 1:43 stuff looks even larger for me.   

 

BTW, If you leave it up to the kids, all you'll wind up with are 1:48 Batmobiles and Transformers 

!/43 is the world standard. Live with it. O gauge "needs" represent a very, very small percentage of their market. Even 1/50 is difficult to find in American automobiles. 

Dave G.

I know I have seen layouts they say oh you need 1:48 or 1:50 cars for your layout to me 1:43 is where it really is as for correct size and to be exact I'm not that worried about it as long as it looks good. And then I have seen where ones try to pass off hot wheels or matchbox cars as O guage size cars  I know thou when I buy the inexpensive 1:43 cars and then compare them to some of the cars on my flats that come from the factory there interchangeable exact size to me. So that keeps me happy. 

I think we're all in agreement here, but there seem to be plenty of 1:50 trucks out there.  Some people mix and match them in with their 1:43 cars, but I don't.  I go 1:43 everywhere to get a consistent look.  As I mentioned in another post, where it can start to get strange is when you start added O gauge figures, which themselves can vary in size.  I don't like having a 6 foot dude staring straight into the window of a semi tractor 

 

The sheer awesome variety of the the 1:43 world makes up for any downside IMO.  But understand that the 2RS guys often find this stuff exceedingly important.  One of the reasons I don't do 2RS is that I am OCD and the quest for perfection would drive me slowly insane.  I have a lot of respect for the guys who pursue the 'ideal' 1:48 world!

Phil, thanks for continuing the discussion. I was the one who mentioned that in the brass thread. I would expect a negative reaction among the hard core purist of the brass market but was hoping to get their input from that perspective. Unfortunately, Dave G is spot on in his assessment. The small die-cast car market is driven by 1/43rd and my idea was to make the auto carriers slightly larger than 1/48, maybe not the full 1/43rd but just big enough to fit the 1/43rd cars and still be robust enough to use on a train layout, maybe 1/45 or something. Our hobby is all about compromise, whether a third rail or swinging pilots on the 3rail side or track that is off by a couple of scale inches on the 2 rail side or electric motors to power the steam engine on the P48 side. I am just saying I would rather have some nice "scale" auto carriers that are slightly to big and be able to put my 1/43rd car collection on display on the layout rather than not be able to do anything.

Tim

My question is, with so very many 1/43 scale automobiles, why did the truck, military & construction equipment side go the 1/50 route?

I have always wondered that myself?

And I, about the 1/50 trucks, but few or no 1/50 cars.  I can't think of the brand but

I used to see all these vintage truck models, not cheap, but "I'll take that one and that one and that one" , but they were good models, and, I think 3/16th (S gauge..they must populate Flyer and 3/16th layouts)  I used to see them in that "used" shop up over the Strasburg hobby shop.  I even wrote the outfit and asked for 1/48th.  No response.  However, if somebody was cranking out old truck models in 3/16, and

surviving, (not still, I don't think) I am guessing there are considerably more tinplate and scale modelers in nominal 1/48 than 3/16, so.....why not?  Who has more disposable income...Europe in 1/43rd or the U.S. in 1/48th?

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

 

These Are Things Man Was Not Meant to Know!

I would love to see accurate 1/4" scale autos, trucks and motorcycles.

 

Would they call us lugnut counters then?

Plenty of Model T's and some early trucks out there,

 

Although I'm looking for a nice delivery wagon and pair of mules so I can get the ice delivered door to door.....

The almost total absence of 1/48 automobile models continues to be one of the more frustrating availability isses for the O scale community. I too wonder what caused 1/50 to become largely a truck, tractor, construction equipment scale save for a few Model A Fords from Athearn. Some enterprizing individual ( cottage Industry) could make a nice buck from a reasonable selection of steam era automobiles.

 

I recall buying cast resin models in HO scale which then required painting and adding the wheels to complete the model...these lumps of cast resin were just fine as a general representation of typical cars of the steam era. I personally do not require ultra detailed autos, just a general and recognizable profile of say 49 Chevies, 52 Fords, 48 Plymouths etc...you get the idea.

 

I know I'm just beating a silent drum with this...so be it.

 

Bob

You hit the nail squarely on the head.

 

We have common freight cars and locos but no common autos from each era. 

Brian Scace has pointed out that quite often the models are not true to either 1/43 or 1/50, but are instead designed to fit the box.  He has a good point.  If you measure the doors and compare that measurement to the prototype, there is often a disagreement, especially in trucks.

 

Wes

 

Why don’t the 1:48 scale modelers just get rid of their current collection & stop buying any more 1:48 scale models? Then they could force MTH, Sunset, etc to import models in 1:43 to be compatible with the vast selection of 1:43 automobile models at different price ranges for almost any car ever made. If HO is 1:87, why should O-Scale, which is supposed to be twice the size be 1:48? European O-Scale seems to have gotten the scale right with 1:43.5 scale trains.

But since none of us are willing to take the first step toward moving to 1:43 scale, including me, we have to manage with 1:43 automobiles, next to 1:50 scale cranes & construction equipment, next to 1:48 scale model trains. So here is my reality.

Here is an image of my 1:43 Scale Mini Cooper from the MTH Roadsters Collection on a 1:50 Scale Peterbilt 335 tow-truck from TWH Collectables.

 

 

Here are some Atlas-O 48’ trailers & Bowser 53’ trailers on 1:50 scale models of Australian trucks.

Here are some 1:48 Scale K-Line 20’ containers on 1:50 Scale container trailer.

 

 

Here are some vans & trucks, all in 1:50 scale on my 1:48 scale diorama.

 

And finally, some O-Scale figures inspecting a 1:25 scale engine.

 

 

These are again, just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

I wanted Atlas to follow through with accessaries to the cars they made since they seemed to run out things  to build. They had months and months where only one project mentioned. I could see them producing the semi trucks with tank trailers to tag along with a few small buildings to make up a terminal for unloading the corn sweetner cars. At the time I had heard it wasn't that expensive to produce an average vehicle then and  possibly cheaper now with 3D printing to make a die. I look for vehicles not so detailed and not so pricey as i just need to fill the parking lot and streets with average daily drivers.

 

Phil

The Mack and the Fruehauf are 1/48- Ford 1/43.. =-/

It's ok but not exact

Maybe  we could all move to 1/45 scale then we would be 5% closer to 1/43, and we would get the track gauge right taboot.            Stephen     (cTr...Choose the Right)

3D scan, re-scale, 3D print..... 

       
       


Wonderful idea Martin. Brilliant plan

Well, get to work on that then and supplement your income. Set it up through Shapeways and put some $'s away for the kid's future.  Suggest that you keep the bodies as hollow as possible to hold down cost.

 

If complete trolley body shells can be made available through 3D printing, this seems doable. 

 

I don't think anyone goes into a hobby driven field to even come close to supplement an income. It would be an endless money pit with the only pay back 1/48 scale autos I would need to spend even more time and resources to paint and finish.

What was that saying? "How to make a fortune in model railroading? Spend an even bigger fortune..." Something Like that.




       

And here I thought you understood the concept of humor,

 

But who said anything about you painting and finishing?  There's got to be at least 6 or 7 O scale modelers left that own a paintbrush and know how to use it,

 

If you do it through Shapeways, they order it on-line and it goes to them directly and you just get your cut. 

 

The trolley body shells are pretty nice!

Atlas did announce that they were considering the idea to make 1/48 scale vehicles but cancelled the project. I saw a picture of the intended vehicle and I remember it vividly. It was a pretty cool car. An everyday 4 door sedan from the steam era. I can't remember the specific model. I was definitely going to a buy a few of them even though I felt they were on the expensive side.

 

I personally don't need a highly detailed vehicle. The detail on the cheap MTH/K-Line 1:43 cars is good enough for me. A little weathering and they will look fine. I just need something a little smaller than the 1/43s and when I say smaller I mean thinner. I can't tell by eye if the length of a scale vehicle is in tune with the scale of the trains but I can see the difference in the width. The 1/43 cars are overly wide to my eye and as mentioned above their scale is all over the place. I've seen Corvettes wider than full size vehicles.

 

I've never understood why some company like MTH or Lionel couldn't make 1:48 sized vehicles at the same price point as the MTH or K-Line 1:43 vehicles. Surely, the material costs would be the same or less. I think over time they would make a profit since there are some people who are MTH fans and buy a lot of MTH and vehicle are something people are always going to need. I mean they would be able to reuse the tooling many times offering the cars in many different colors.

 

I believe Atlas was going for a highly detailed, scale vehicle and felt that there wouldn't be enough sales to support the tooling costs [an educated guess here]. If I remember correctly the retail price was going to be around $25 to $30 each.  It was probably a wise decision by Atlas to cancel the project and I don't blame them. Perhaps I am in the minority, do most 2 railers want the highly detailed Brooklin-esc vehicle? I honestly don't know but even though my signature line says I am still waiting for 1:48 scale vehicles I don't think I will live long enough [I'm 49] to see the day when someone sells 1:48 scale vehicles at a reasonable price which in my opinion is under $15.

 

Tell you one thing I will NEVER, EVER buy one of those overpriced Brooklin cars. Just can't see spending $80 to $110 for something that isn't even in scale with my trains.

 

Just my opinion except for some of the stuff about Atlas. That's the way I understood it.

Knowing the history of a good bit of the Atlas product, if the cars were 1:43 they were someone else's molds that Atlas was looking to get reasonable and then have someone like Sanda Kan produce in China.

 

What's funny is I'm remembering the inexpensive drug store mini car model kits we had as a little one in the 70's.  Both the "snap tite" ones as well as things like the Mini Lindy quasi-HO scale trucks.  

 

They were little more than a molded body, a floor pan with molded seats and dash that fit into the body, a press in steering wheel and wheels/axles/tires and some separate bumpers.   Certainly not elaborate but rather basic since most of what makes a real car expensive is the things we can't see.

 

I know that cutting molds costs money and producing and decorating is expensive, even offshore.

 

But for the life of me I can't see how a few "staple" cars from the pre-war, post-war and then 50/60/70's era can be all that expensive to produce in blue-box Athearn quality.

 

I believe Atlas just tried reping these Mfgs products as a trial to guage interest, obiviously they were not that sucessfull.JMO

 Mixed scale pictures.  Unless you are familiar with the model or the real life units it's difficult to tell.

 

Cows/Horses appear small are 1/64 scale.

The box for the MTH 1:43 Roadsters Collection scale automobiles mention they were made for MTH by Yat Ming, who specializes in 1:43 scale models. Here is an E-Bay link showing the other models Yat Ming makes in 1:43. Why would MTH spend their own money developing 1:48 scale automobiles if they can get close-enough fairly well-detailed 1:43 scale versions from Yat-Ming & still sell them for $5 each?

 

K-Line did make road vehicles. Their Ringling Bros articulated trucks were good & closer to O-Scale. Until I started buying more detailed 1:50 scale trucks & sold the K-Line truck, I used it with a $4 K-Line trailer to display my K-Line 20’ ISO tank containers. But I was disappointed with an O-Scale bus that they imported. It was even smaller than the Corgi 1:50 scale modern Greyhound buses that I had.

 

I am led to believe that all the Atlas-O road vehicles were made by other diecast manufacturers who specialize in either 1:43 (for automobiles) or 1:50 (for trucks & construction equipment). Those $150 trucks they had on their website were originally imported for DHS Diecast as part of their Sword Models collection. They were most likely made by TWH Collectabiles. TWH made models of American & a few Australian prototypes that were more detailed than their competitors but went out of business 2 years ago. Maybe that’s why that page is no longer visible on Atlas’ new product announcements. The link I posted in my last reply was from an old bookmark I had. Since I favor models of contemporary American road vehicles over European prototypes, when I learnt that they went out of business, I was buying more of these remaining TWH models over O-Scale trains until the middle of last year.

 

As I mentioned in the main 3-rail forum last week you can combine 1:43 models with even 1:50 scale models. Just don’t place a 1:43 scale model of a 2014 Chevy Impala or the US Presidential limousine right next to a 1:50 scale delivery truck. When I have mixed the scales, I typically seek 1:43 scale models of smaller prototypes like Mini Cooper & 1:50 scale models of heavy-haul Kenworth trucks that are slightly bigger than regular on-highway trucks.

 

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

 

          That was one of the first things I noticed in going O scale is that vehicle 

      scales are all over the place. I hesitated buying 1:43 for a while but after

      the first auto I decided it wasn't that bad. I have 6 now. Trucks are a 

      little trickier. I found trucks in 1:43 to be a bit much.  Athearn makes a

      nice 1:50 scale truck. I'd love to see them do more in that scale. There 

      are some nice trucks in 1:53 that are decent for O scale. It's definitely

      a compromise in O scale but if you see an auto you like in 1:43 I'd go

      for it. 

         Speaking of things we'd like see more of, Naveen's pics reminded me

      of how hard it is to find a COE truck in O scale. More of those please!

         Finally, here is a 1:43 pickup and a 1:50 flatbed waiting at the 

      crossing as the local rolls by.

 

           Geoff

The problem with Brooklins is, that they do have a variety (nowhere near good enough)

of American vehicles from several eras, and not just exotics like Duesenberg, Isotta

Fraschini and Hispano-Suiza that Joe Blow never saw on the streets of Kokomo.  They

also get beyond Fords, where many do not.  I can remember the plastic models in

the glass squares on the Woolworth's counters, and I want more detail than a vaccuum

molding of a generic "car".  Rextoy did it once....new technology?

Jeoff,

I also love Cab-Over-Engine (COE) trucks too ever since I saw Terminator 2 where the T-1000 chases John Connor on a COE tow truck, long before I came to this country. But they have seen to fallen out of favor here in North America. Freightliner stopped selling their most recent COE – Argosy here in the US but they are still made here & in other countries but for export markets. Kenworth stopped making their COE K-100 here in the US but it is still made in Australia. I can’t remember when Navistar stopped making their COE but I haven’t seen a new one since I came to the US.

 

Europe is big on COE trucks since due to length restrictions, they cannot have trucks with long hoods as in North America. There are more selection for European COE 1:50 scale models since the major diecast model importers like Conrad, WSI, NZG & Tekno are based there. But they cannot be passed off as the trucks seen here since don’t have as much chrome plating as the North American trucks.

 

Here are some photos of a K-Line COE. It came with the Ringling Bros trailer but I used it with other K-Line intermodal trailers.

 

 

Here are some photos of the Australian Kenworth K-200 COE with a flat-rack 40’ container on a WSI intermodal trailer. A detailed review of these models could be found here.

 

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

What's interesting is that 40+ years of being a truck buff I've watched the disappearance of the cabover from the highways. 

 

Much of it is due to the loosening of the Length Overall restrictions and their replacenent with laws that restrict the size based on trailer length/width.  This was ostensibly caused by fuel efficiency advantages that a conventional with aerodynamics has over pushing a cabover through the wind at 65 mph.

 

I could count on one hand the number of cabovers I saw on my last trip from PA to Chicago March Meet last year. 

I sure wish I could locate late 1940's roadsters in 1:48.    I would like acurate load for my auto boxcars 

 

All,

 

I confess that I'm not a railroad modeler. I build static models mostly in 1/48th. Given the subject of this thread, it seemed like a good place to start.

 

I'm looking a 1/48 (or O gauge) 1963/4 Pontiac Catalina. Anyone know if such a thing exists (I understood it did) and where I can find such a thing? 

 

Thanks for any direction.

 

Art

I long ago gave up on 1/48 scale vehicles. So now, the foreground vehicles will be 1/43, and the background ones will be 1/50. I have three GMC GCCW 2 1/2 ton trucks in 1/50 as NOBODY makes a enclosed cab troop/cargo version of that truck in anything but 1/50 as a diecast...

The rest of the cars on my layout are very few as I model WW2 so there wouldn't be too many civilian vehicles around. But the ones that are, are 1/43...

There's no way I could put these GMC trucks near one of the 1/43 ones, though as it'd be really obvious that something wasn't right.

Cab overs, A friend of mine who drove didn't like the cab over the wheels as it rode a lot harder than cabs placed between the wheel. Was that the shock came straight up to the driver. 

 

Phil