10 amp limits and switching betwen loops

 If you need more than 10 amps on one track, and you are using a command system, then you would be better off getting a commercial fixed voltage transformer of the required voltage and amperage and using that.

 

Having 2 separate loops of track insulated from each other and powered by 2 properly phased transformers is not a problem. When a train passes between blocks, it just continues on, and depending on the setting of the transformers, will either speed up, slow down, or remain the same.

 

Larry

Can you recommend a transformer?

The loops will both be  DCS...so hopefully engine speed will not change...

A transformer of that current and voltage rating would be an industrial unit, with a very high industrial price. Cannot locate anything of the specs you want; it may have to be special ordered. As a guess, probably talking an easy $1,000 or more.

 

Larry

It would be easier to move other loads such as accessories, switches and lights to a separate transformer and leave the present transformer for track power only.

 

As already stated, you should have no problem with DCS signal. Also, by running DCS and having the loops at the same constant voltage should eliminate any transformer bridging issues when crossing from one loop to the other with a double collector engine or lighted car. Confirm the voltages of each loop.

 

The safe way to increase amperage capacity for a single power district is to parallel identical fixed voltage Power House transformers by linking them to a Track Power Controller[TPC]. A pair of Lionel 135 watt PoHos linked through a TPC 300 will provide 15 amps[270 watts]. Paralleling variable voltage transformers is not recommended.

 

It is also possible to parallel a pair of 180 watt PoHos through a TPC 400 for 360 watts, and I have done so, but consider it track/wheel welding level power upon a derailment and do not recommend it.

The old 2001 photo below has paralleled PoHos w/TPCs on two of three different power districts[layout long since dismantled].

The TPC route is the only "by the book" method I'm aware of. I have used parallel PM-1's powered by identical PH-1's in conventional CAB-1 control configuration for running large passenger sets. This gave 14 amps to the track, I set both PM-1's to "TR-1".

Parallel PH 135's lower left. Lionel has a plug-in connector piece, TPC Cable Set (6-14194), designed to hook to a TPC, that connects the two transformers.    (Down Side) of 15 amps of track power is, on derail, there is arc and welding until circuit breakers open.  I fuse the (8) track circuits at 7 amps.  Note the fuse blocks upper left next to the Acme Accessory transformer.

 

 

Do a search on the forum for 'PSX-AC', a very fast circuit breaker that prevents the arc welding associated with high power transformers. The PSX-AC can be set to several amp levels to match your application.  I use two PH180 bricks paralleled with a TPC400 with the PSX-AC set at 15.4 amps.  When testing it, there is no spark or very minimal spark when running a passenger set drawing more than 11 amps (multiple powered engines and lots of incandescent lights).

You guys are thinking too hard. A PSX-AC coupled with a Post War ZW will yield more than 10 amps safely. List prices on industrial transformers may be prohibitive but you can find them at surplus for not much more than price of copper.

 

500 VA

 

 

 

 

 

Pete

Road trip Rob. They are located in Cuba, NY.

 

 

Pete

I used to find some good power supplies at Glenwood Sales/Surplus on Hague St., a little closer than Cuba.

I knew Glenwood Sales well. I miss that place. Its not where I got mine but its the kind of place I was thinking about. Pennies on a dollar for stuff.

 

Pete

You can parallel the identical PH135 or PH180 transformers and dispense with the TPC, it's not necessary.

 

If you plan on doing this, a couple of suggestions.

 

• Use a separate circuit breaker on the combined feed to get positive protection.
• Do NOT run more than 10 amps through the TIU, you'll have to use it in passive mode for higher track current.

Truthfully, I see no reason to do this, I'd separate the track into more power districts and spread the power around so you don't have welding currents available in the case of a derailment.

 

 

Not sure why the OP needs this but,

What motivated me to build Ampzilla was a club member with a PWC Texas Special running 4 Pulmores and 10 passenger cars with incandescent lamps. It would routinely trip the Z4000. It has two outputs that normally feed to a pair of TMCC Lockons but when running the Texas Special a 15 amp fast blow fuse replaced a Lock On. This was before the PSX-ACs were available. 

Now I use for resistance soldering.

 

Pete

I would encourage the single club member to refer to my recent product announcement of LED lighting for passenger cars, easier than compromising all the running on the layout.

 

The Acme transformer pictured has many applications.  Most likely this one, which was on the shelf at the shop, was part of a voltage correction project.  They can be used to either reduce voltage, (Buck), or increase voltage, (Boost).  Example:  Existing voltage is 208 and a new piece of equipment is rated at 230 volts, One of these transformers, or a combination of transformers, is used to correct the voltage.  Note that this Acme transformer is marked Lumberton , NC.  The website linked is Wisconsin.

 

Anyway it's a wonderful 750 watts, or close to that, @ either 12 volts or 24 volts. I used it in the 12 volt wiring configuration to supply accessory power for my layout.

There are a lot of accessory fuses that reduce the capacity to 1 or 3 amps for the appropriate accessory.  Picture center.

 Another picture of the fused accessory circuits.

 

The TPC enables TMCC users to also operate in Conventional mode from the handheld Cab 1.

 

Use of the TPC link when paralleling PoHos was initially recommended by Lou Kovach of IC Controls, builder of the TPC. He demonstrated paralleling in his tape[produced by the elderly Webmaster back in the last century].

I agree the TPC is required for conventional control.  My point was that paralleling the transformers doesn't require a TPC if all you want is more current at a constant voltage, say for command only operation.

 

Truthfully, I don't recommend that much current on a single track power district anyway, so this is a academic discussion for me.

 

Yeah, after experimenting with paralleling in the early days I opted for 180 watt Power Houses per power district. For my railpower supply today 10 amps is plenty and the 180's  fast breaker is a plus.

 

I haven't switched to LEDs in the passenger cars but on my small layout a 4-car consist is about standard.

I am spoiled..I ran DCC in HO..and had lighted passenger, and 3 to 6 engines pulling 40 to 60 car long trains..DIGITRAX...
So now Im into MTH O..I have 1 Lionel 180v 10amp brick..powering, via fixed on my TIU, about 100' of loop times 2...13 lighted passenger cars and 2 MTH engines..and I am popping the brick protector..or 2 engines 1 steam, 1 diesel, continuous running and a diesel doing switching, and pop the brick..

Also I have an MTH 750 watt supply powering the TIU
And I have another 750 and a 1000 watt MTH..

I am a Low Voltage Technician..I install and repair all forms of low voltage circuits and systems from CCTV to DOOR SECURITY TO FIRE ALARM..VDVC, CABLE and secure Networks...but AC on my trains makes me nervous...an ELECTRICIAN I am not...
All I can see is my Engines letting the smoke out...and me crying...
I have no one, who has O scale, that I can go learn from..

I am a visual learner..once I see it..I got it..

I hear of others increasing amps, which I know , current only draws what the load requires..1 steam and 3 lighted passenger cars draws almost 6 amps in neutral..I hoped with the 180v, 10 amp..I could solve the issue and run a few trains...

I have 16g thhn..parallel but no blocks
No accessories..except MTH turnouts..and I throw them manually for now..they do self align still...

I want reliable operation for 3 to 5 engines..I like to have two on circles as I switch out cars...

Is there a better way using what I already have, that I am missing..
I want to power each loop, plus have 2 yards..one for DCS, the other for conventional, for a young nephew to run on..

A schematic would be helpful

Also how do I set a variable channel to a fixed channel on my TIU..to power a yard..

There has to be an easier way..I must be missing...I want to accomplish smooth running before the wifi module is in my home..so I can have friends and family join in the fun if almost wrecking my trains...I need my heart rate dramatically increased....

Thanks all for your replies

Small correction
I have 1 MTH Z 750 powering TIU
And 2 Z 1000

I have Rich Battista's Black Diamond Railroad video.  He runs his entire railroad with one Z-4000.  I believe he said he can run 8 trains at a time.  I would need to watch the video again to be sure.  

 

I run the G&O garden railroad.  We can run 4 trains at a time including two lighted passenger trains.  We have two Z-4000s feeding one TIU.  

 

I routinely run 2 to 3 lighted passenger trains on my home layout using one Z-4000 and one TIU.

 

I am wondering if the layout is correctly wired or perhaps the wire gauge isn't large enough.  It seems that there must be something wrong when one lighted passenger train plus engines draws over 15 amps.  Are all the motors in the engines in good shape, free running, etc.  Are the gears in the engines properly lubricated and free running?  

 

When I see an excessively high current draw on my layout there is usually an equipment problem.  For example, one engine started to draw too much power.  I found a traction tire jammed in the gearing.  The engine ran and the only symptom was the high current draw.

 

Another thing that can cause a high current draw on passenger trains are wheels that do not turn freely.  This happened on a new passenger train.  I couldn't figure why is was drawing so much current.  Then I noticed that when I pushed a car it only rolled a few inches before stopping.  I lubricated all the wheel axels so that every car rolled easily.    The high current draw went away.    

 

Joe

 

1drummer,

I am not an electrical engineer. But, I have followed the advice of others and used this chart as a guide. I use 12AWG buss, (which is rated for 10amps for power transmission) and hot and common feeders every 5 or 6 track joints of 16AWG. I am using the parallel style as you are with heavier gauge wire and probably more feeders.

 

How you work that into wiring suitable for DCS, I can't tell you.

 

I also have one 180w brick per loop for track power only. The loops are isolated from one another between the interlocking switches.

 

It would seem to make sense with current draw you need to run the 12AWG and tie your existing 16awg track feeds to it. (times 2, one for each loop, share the common) You should have anywhere from 12 to 20 track feed pair per loop based on a 100'.

 

You would then know for sure that you could deliver the power (current) reliably.

 

 

Those are 75 and 100-watt transformers by the way, the Z750 and Z1000

That alone sounds suspiscious...I ran a Lionel Acela with six 21" coaches that would draw in excess of 6 amps with the coach lights turned on (the Z-1000's breaker is a 6-amp).

 

Three coaches and a steamer shouldn't draw that much current in neutral though.

 

---PCJ

This is WAY more than you should ever see!  Even with smoke at idle, more than about 2-2.5 amps is a problem.  Most of the time locomotives at idle draw less than 1/2 an amp.

The DOCTOR (GRJ) is in. Careful reading reveals the true question. The question is not "how to get more amps?" but is "what is using all of this current?"

 

I have learned a lot about AMPZILLAs. (nice term, Norton)