12x13 Track Plan Idea- Comments Appreciated

@andy b posted:

A few details about the track plan:

• The concentric squiggles are mountains.
• The boxes attached to the mountains represent tunnel portals.
• The boxes labeled "Operating Accessory" are going to be used for some operating accessory- which one it will be is unclear. They may also rotate from time to time.
• The black tracks are going to be set about 6.5 inches above the orange ones.
• The plan is drawn using Lionel FasTrack- minimum curve O48.
• The switches are approximated.
• One square on the graph paper equals 6 inches.
• The strange-looking yard is John Allen's timesaver.
• The strange peninsula is an alcove at the bottom of the basement steps. The idea is to use it for staging. The angled section near the peninsula is the only entrance to the room. The intended method of entry is a duck under.

It looks nice and fun but I'm not a fan of elevated Fast Track. It'll be noisy and ballast doesn't float in the air in real life. JMO.

Do you have access around the perimeter?  If not, you'll have some reach issues into the corners.

Re the Timesaver...  I'm a big fan of that configuration.  Although the location looks like a good use of space, I'm wondering how well it will work.  3-rail couplers (unless using Kadees) are hard to uncouple - difficult to do manually, and need precise location if using an uncoupling track.  They're unreliable for coupling - you often need to bash the cars together to get them to grab.  Is it in a location where you can provide a lot of manual assistance?

Reach to any track should be within 3ft as drawn.  I think it can be managed with a stool and/or pop up for a hand or small body in the corner. 

I appreciate the concerns about the timesaver location.  We are familiar with the coupling peculiarities.  We've played timesaver on the floor.  I was not thinking through all the details and was focused on incorporating it in the layout.  That's why I'm here, to get advice and help thinking through this!  The reverse loop could cause consternation when playing the timesaver as drawn.  We may need to reconsider that and see if we can get it in an open area on here.  I have also contemplated having a detached timesaver in another room.    

I'm not a fan of "permanent" layouts using FastTrack at all, because of the look and the noise... but it is convenient, I have a lot of it and it is the quickest way to get a layout up for my train loving boys.   At this point I'm up for anything to get the trains off the floor.   I'd personally go all in with Gargraves and Ross but the time to build would be exponentially increased. 

Andy, I like the design and the reversing loops. Looking ahead how many trains do you intend to operate at one time and how will you protect them. There some opportunities for face-ups.

Go for it!  You’ll learn a lot and your boys will never forget it.

I agree it would be good to get the track up off the floor.  Getting something going fairly quickly would help to keep your sons interested.

How wide will the door open?  In the drawing, it doesn't look like it can swing open very far.

Scratching my head at those two reversing loops jutting into the central operating/viewing area. That's a lot of your real estate dedicated to what are fundamentally scenically insincere things. Also, they are two different radii. No point in spending real estate to make one larger if the smaller radius is good enough.  I would be inclined to add wyes to the lower loop at bottom and left, and get rid of the upper loop. Only one blob that way, but you still get to reverse in both directions. If you insist on two, move the upper one left to the corner.

I would also recommend building the layout as high as possible to ease the duck under. You can always add steps, stools, or platforms for the boys, and as they grow, they won't need them.

Access has already been mentioned so I won't duplicate that important design concern.

@andy b posted:

A few details about the track plan:

• The concentric squiggles are mountains.
• The boxes attached to the mountains represent tunnel portals.
• The boxes labeled "Operating Accessory" are going to be used for some operating accessory- which one it will be is unclear. They may also rotate from time to time.
• The black tracks are going to be set about 6.5 inches above the orange ones.
• The plan is drawn using Lionel FasTrack- minimum curve O48.
• The switches are approximated.
• One square on the graph paper equals 6 inches.
• The strange-looking yard is John Allen's timesaver.
• The strange peninsula is an alcove at the bottom of the basement steps. The idea is to use it for staging. The angled section near the peninsula is the only entrance to the room. The intended method of entry is a duck under.

I'd drop the upper loop down to board level
Lose the reverse loops - They are hard to do well in a small space (I'm in the same boat), and it would free up the interior space.
Reaching over the upper loop to get at operating accessories will be a problem. And you will need to get to them all the time.
Add cross-over switching between both loops- this will add operating variety being able to switch trains between tracks. I'd put them on the left and right of the plan.
Modify the yard lead into a wye to turn trains.

Like you said- getting trains up off the floor is key. Build what can be done quickly that will keep the boys happy.

Just my $.02

Bob

Here's another take based on the feedback.  My 14 yr old is loving this and doing a lot of the planning and all of the drawing.  He's the oldest.  To address some of the concerns or invite better suggestions:

There is no door to the room, it is open to the right of the basement steps.   It is probably going to be a crawl under.  Old people, like myself, can choose to stand in the entrance. 

I appreciate the comment to make the benchwork as tall as possible!

The boys are 7, 10, 12, 14 years old.   

I might have liked a swing or lift bridge but I'm willing to crawl to preserve the usable space.  If I get desperate I have seen layout with telescoping legs and I believe I could orchestrate lifting that whole section toward the ceiling, like an elevator. 

The outside loop is O-72.  The inside loop is O-60, the reverse loops in the original were O-72 and O-48.   In this revised version he matched the reverse loops at O-48s.  He put them off the outside loop in order to maximize space.    He managed to get the reverse loops away from the timesaver.  We do want to be able to reverse the train for interest.  He does question cutting the middle in half but thought it would give another option.  We're going to lay things out on the carpet and see if we can stand in the spaces before benchworking.   He forgot to switch pens on this one, so it looks flat, but the intention is to have the inside and outside loops completely separate.  The inside loop will be at least 6.5" lower than the outside loop. 

We have a good number of operating accessories that we intend to swap out.  Culvert loader and unloader (one of those is the manual version - manual is more fun!), a manual coal loader, log loaders, milk car platform, magnetic cranes, icing station, horse corral...

The more trains the merrier, but we wanted at least two  They are good about having multiple on a track.  Many of what we have can use a remote and if you use finesse you can run conventional and TMCC on the same track.   The main way to protect the trains, is train the kids!!!  They generally prefer to have someone driving and someone else loading, unloading, coupling, uncoupling, etc.   The driver gets to be the boss, and who doesn't want to boss their brother?

Previous to this I have background in electronics and programming and have rigged up occupancy sensors that cut the track power to sections or to the whole layout if a collision is imminent.  I may work some of that sort of thing into this, but mostly for "friends" and such. 

Thank you for the great and continued suggestions.

I think you have things covered.  My basement train room doesn’t have a door either.  Your kids aren’t little.  I was concerned keeping say a 4-year old interested, but that’s not your problem.  I laid out track on the floor too.  His drawings are good. 👍🏻

There are no passing sidings on the upper loop. You can only run more than one train if all are going the same direction. If you did use a reversing loop for one, you would have a head on crash. Add two passing sidings or lose the loops.

The lone passing siding on the lower loop looks to be about 4 feet long. That's a very short train. Again, this is a single direction railroad. If two trains are running opposite directions, one is stopped at the siding while the other is moving. Two longer sidings will provide much more operating interest.

Planning is more than drawing tracks on paper. You/your sons need to test whether the train movements they want to be able to do are possible on a given design. Some folks can do this in their heads or on paper. Others need to assemble the track on the floor and put some cars on it.

I recommend you lay out your plan on the floor with track, one level at a time, and have your sons push the cars around by hand. Have them redesign it by changing the track. Can each level keep two sons busy having fun?

When they are happy with each level, then you need to test whether the two are compatible. For example, can 5 people fit? Do they get in each other's way? Can anyone actually get into those spaces inside the reverse loops? You might cut a full size paper mockup of one level and put it under the actual track of the other. One pair of boys is pushing actual train cars, the other pair simulates their actions on the paper track. Operation of accessories can be simulated as well with a piece of cardboard the size of the footprint and the operator.

This whole planning and design activity will be a lot of fun in itself as they see what doesn't work, come up with ideas to fix the problems, change the track, and see if their ideas work.

BTW, they won't be boys for much longer.