2025 Lionel Big Book Discussion - Positive Comments Only

Some of my thoughts.

• I'm contemplating a Vandy, but I'm holding out until we see what custom runs get announced. The price, to me, is about the same as what I paid for a custom Dreyfuss from Mr. Muffin's. I bet the gold-plated Vandy is going to be gorgeous when it's released.
• I really like the Heisler, but it's going to be out of budget for me. If I'm going to spend that kind of money, I'd rather get the Vandy.
• The Monon ES44 heritage unit isn't cataloged yet, sadly. (It's OK, I've already pre-ordered Atlas's.)
• I like the Chessie System GP35.
• I wouldn't mind an autorack or two, but I think I'll pass on the Vision Line models and go with the "regular" ones on page 125. I've got some contemporary diesels that need contemporary rolling stock to pull.
• I think I want that Rock 'Em Sock 'Em gondola. LOL

To me the winners are the reissue/update of the Dreyfus Hudson,  the turbine and the 1948 2025 passenger set.  Explanation of the set: in the 1948 catalog, it came in an O gauge set with a steam turbine and with the best, my opinion, graphic illustration ever in a Lionel catalog.  Then almost as an afterthought, it was offered in an 027 set with a 2025.  Of course the 027 set was much less expensive given it also included the transformer and a cheaper engine.  But, I wonder how many of those were sold vs the O gauge set.  So, the less interesting set was a great choice and if you want the O gauge set, just put one of your turbines with it once you have it.

And the surprise, I thought, was from all the "hints" that there would be a full scale length heavyweight passenger set to go with the Hudson.  Didn't  happen, nor even one with the traditional Pullman green.

Prices and things that contribute to them aside, I think there is a little something for everyone.

I was already happy about the new Hudsons and pretty happy to see the Vanderbilt back, as well as the S2.

The 2025 (appropriate haha) Passenger Set I think will be the real winner of the mid-range, if last year's 675 freight set is any indication. In general, I think there was a lot of thought put in to pay tribute to Lionel's past.

There's also plenty of creative, fun ideas - the ACME rocket car is genuinely hilarious.

While there's not much for me other than the Hudsons, hopefully those who do love all the more whimsical and IP-associated stuff will be happy.

I think there's something for everybody as usual. I see a couple of "postwar inspired" Lionchief items that are interesting.

@BillYo414 posted:

I'll have to read up on the smoke lifters. I assume the smoke doesn't "chuff" from the exhaust? It's more of steady stream?

There's also the note that "mini-lifters" are included with the as-built, and I'm interested to see what that actually means.

@Mikado 4501 posted:

There's also plenty of creative, fun ideas - the ACME rocket car is genuinely hilarious.

I loved someone comment last night "which way is the rocket supposed to point?" Made me actually laugh.

@Up & Down the Monon posted:

I really like the Heisler, but it's going to be out of budget for me.

This was really the one piece I did a double-take on. I'm not saying I wouldn't pay that much for a small locomotive, I'm just saying it has to be amazing. I'll withhold judgement until I get to see one in person.

The prewar and postwar inspired scale items are well done. The 763E inspired prewar set is especially good looking. The MPC inspired H24-66 Train Masters and the postwar style Daylight F3 are also great looking. The scale 671 turbine and the scale Atlantic Scout with the green passenger cars are also great looking. The 027 with the postwar style 2025 K4 and green cars is appropriate for the year.

I am leaning towards the postwar scale Santa Fe FA-2  inspired by the 1957 paint scheme. Santa Fe did not have FA's, but I have always liked that paint scheme.  I believe the paint scheme is more appropriate for the FT.

Listening to Ryan and Dave recap, I am excited about the Vanderbilt having sheet metal ripples simulated in the casting.

@SuperChief posted:

Listening to Ryan and Dave recap, I am excited about the Vanderbilt having sheet metal ripples simulated in the casting.

It’s been that way since the first issue 1996 original issue……nothing new there….

Pat

@J.Dooley I wasn't sure what the small lifters were about. I'll have to look it up unless somebody volunteers the info.

@BillYo414 posted:

@J.Dooley I wasn't sure what the small lifters were about. I'll have to look it up unless somebody volunteers the info.

A smaller version of the elephant ears I believe.

@MartyE posted:

A smaller version of the elephant ears I believe.

That's what I think too, I'm just curious about how much different it is than the full versions. I really want the as-built, but I'm curious what the difference are between the big and small ones.

It is really is BIG.   

George

@MartyE posted:

The Scale S2's are awesome.  I also have a 2013-2014 cataloged version.  Back then it was MSRP of $1299, so at $1399 the new ones are priced pretty good compared to where it could be with the cost increases we've seen in everything.  The stacks just stream smoke and the sounds don't chuff but in the catalog video Dave said the new ones will have an option to "chuff" like the PW engines.  Not sure if that includes smoke as well or not.

That thing is awesome. I thought it would have a shrieking whine sound but it doesn't!

For the longest time, all that I could afford to purchase was the Catalog, which is also called the "wish book" for obvious reasons.  So,  I am so very thankful that Lionel still produces a catalog that has value. I can't remember the last time a actually read a book from cover to cover, so when I am asked "what was the last book you read?" I can truthfully state the "Lionel Train Catalog".

I will go through the catalog several times, and create a list of 15 or 20 items and then cut it down to a few that I believe adds something to my layout.  There will be some high ticket items and low ticket items (like people or anything that glows in the dark), and I think that the Gold Vanderbilt will be at the top of the list.

That S2 is at the top of my list too.

@BillYo414 posted:

@J.Dooley I think I might be in for an S2 Turbine. I will still check out Youtube videos but it's nice to hear someone's thoughts directly, as opposed to trying to make a choice from a video. I'll have to read up on the smoke lifters. I assume the smoke doesn't "chuff" from the exhaust? It's more of steady stream?

The history of the S2 is really interesting.  The tender was used on at least two engines before the S2, war restrictions led to using less than ideal materials to built it, and while it was inefficient at low speeds the Pennsy was using it for fast passenger service when it had it grade crossing accident.

Pennsy initially tried the small smoke deflectors but they didn't work, so they went with the large deflectors (elephant ears) and that was its looks from 1946 to 1949 when it was taken out of service.  The engine was called the Big Whoosh because that was what it sounded like with the steady steaming.  I like it because it is different.

I have the 3rd Rail/ERR upgraded version with the elephant ears (actually a Williams model picked up by Sunset as their first 3rd Rail effort).  While I like it, it is not the best runner and delicate.  After some thought, I am looking at the Lionel version with the elephant ears.

@CAPPilot posted:

Pennsy initially tried the small smoke deflectors but they didn't work, so they went with the large deflectors (elephant ears) and that was its looks from 1946 to 1949 when it was taken out of service.  The engine was called the Big Whoosh because that was what it sounded like with the steady steaming.  I like it because it is different.

Oh, so the small deflectors WERE part of the as-built. That's very cool, I didn't know that.

@J.Dooley posted:

Oh, so the small deflectors WERE part of the as-built. That's very cool, I didn't know that.

Also did not know that. That makes me lean towards the As Built version. Thanks for the info @CAPPilot!

@J.Dooley posted:

This was really the one piece I did a double-take on. I'm not saying I wouldn't pay that much for a small locomotive, I'm just saying it has to be amazing. I'll withhold judgement until I get to see one in person.

This is challenge with producing small locomotives.  The investment in design, tooling, and assembly far outweighs the extra materials that go into a larger locomotive so there isn't any savings in a small locomotive.  The market perception that the cost of a steam locomotive should be proportionate to the size of the locomotive is unfortunate as small locomotives were the backbone of many a railroad's fleets and they are great for our layouts.  It is odd that there isn't the same perception for diesel pricing.

@CAPPilot posted:

The history of the S2 is really interesting.  The tender was used on at least two engines before the S2, war restrictions led to using less than ideal materials to built it, and while it was inefficient at low speeds the Pennsy was using it for fast passenger service when it had it grade crossing accident.

Those same restrictions were also why it was a 6-8-6 instead of a 4-8-4.  I totally agree that this locomotive had a fascinating if brief history.  Above 40 mph it was extremely efficient.   

Does anyone know if the 20th Century passenger cars in the set are prototypical? And is the engine in the set different than the Hudsons in the prior pages? The engine in the set seems a bit dull? And maybe it’s my screen but the boiler seems like it has hint of blue?

@J.Dooley posted:

This was really the one piece I did a double-take on. I'm not saying I wouldn't pay that much for a small locomotive, I'm just saying it has to be amazing. I'll withhold judgement until I get to see one in person.

Yeah I agree!  Was one I was interested in too because it is different, neat and runs on small curves.  

In regards to pricing it seems like it is the kohls department store model.  Send out the high full msrp.  Get everyone used to that cost so the dealer discounts then seem better and doable. It’s a good tactic.  

funny how some locomotives buck the trend of pricing increases though. Like the Hiawatha and others that have been mentioned.  I think the f19 as well. Would have liked to have seen the heisler bucked the trend.  But probably knew it would be a high demand and maybe time consuming to build maybe with the gears.  First time they have had Bluetooth.

do they run well or finicky with the tether and shaft?

@J.Dooley posted:

Oh, so the small deflectors WERE part of the as-built. That's very cool, I didn't know that.

My apologies for the poor wording.  The small deflectors were not part of the as-built, but added soon afterwards when the smoke issue became apparent.

@Up & Down the Monon posted:

Some of my thoughts.

• I'm contemplating a Vandy, but I'm holding out until we see what custom runs get announced. The price, to me, is about the same as what I paid for a custom Dreyfuss from Mr. Muffin's. I bet the gold-plated Vandy is going to be gorgeous when it's released.
• I really like the Heisler, but it's going to be out of budget for me. If I'm going to spend that kind of money, I'd rather get the Vandy.
• The Monon ES44 heritage unit isn't cataloged yet, sadly. (It's OK, I've already pre-ordered Atlas's.)
• I like the Chessie System GP35.
• I wouldn't mind an autorack or two, but I think I'll pass on the Vision Line models and go with the "regular" ones on page 125. I've got some contemporary diesels that need contemporary rolling stock to pull.
• I think I want that Rock 'Em Sock 'Em gondola. LOL

I find the atlas autoracks far, far superior to lionel. I wanted, like you, a vandy but it should not be a vision line price, especially with a streamliners lack of detail. I have waited 10 years for a vandy reissue and since mth has no mold, we are in a pickle. Really undecided.  There in not one other item in that catalog that we want. Gary

@J.Dooley posted:

This was really the one piece I did a double-take on. I'm not saying I wouldn't pay that much for a small locomotive, I'm just saying it has to be amazing. I'll withhold judgement until I get to see one in person.

why not buy a shay on the used market for less than half the price, especially if you are buying from a known train guy here on ogr or trainz if trainz pays for return shipping if not acceptable. OGR is a great resouce to buy things Gary?

Is the "detailed drivetrain" animated? I know we're being positive but I have my concerns about vague wording these days.

@The TrainBoard posted:

why not buy a shay on the used market for less than half the price, especially if you are buying from a known train guy here on ogr or trainz if trainz pays for return shipping if not acceptable. OGR is a great resouce to buy things Gary?

Because the whole point of the thread was to be positive.

I hit the last few catalogs pretty hard with two F-19, two E6 diesels and still to be delivered Y6b and a Seaboard Mountain.  Didn’t plan on ordering much, but did decide awhile back that if they made the CSX RF&P heritage I would buy one.  Glad to see it’s the same price as the earlier catalog.

I also like the Legacy Scout.  That looks small enough to combine with a nice collection of postwar rolling stock.

Finally some prototypical peanuts stuff. I'm in for all of it.

rat

I'm excited to see the ATSF Freight Blue FAs (as you might guess from my signature). Trying to determine if I order these or I remain happy with just my postwar traditional scale LCCA 208. Legacy refinements are tempting.

I do wish Lionel tagged products sprinkled throughout the catalog that were pre/postwar inspired. Prices aside they are honoring their history it was just a bit disorganized.

Realllly hoping for a Super Chief in C2.

@hirailsteve posted:

I do wish Lionel tagged products sprinkled throughout the catalog that were pre/postwar inspired. Prices aside they are honoring their history it was just a bit disorganized.

Same. This is the only tweak I would make to Lionel catalogs: more categorization. What real life era do models fit? What Lionel era are they from? And so on, and so forth.

The Christmas Disconnect 4-pack actually caught my eye. I have some cars for the Christmas loop but this would really fit the loop a lot better. I could add a siding for the longer cars.

Looks like the only thing that I will be waiting for is for the new Hallmark catalog and the Lionelville Table Decoration.

@BillYo414 posted:

The Christmas Disconnect 4-pack actually caught my eye. I have some cars for the Christmas loop but this would really fit the loop a lot better. I could add a siding for the longer cars.

I'm intrigued by the Peanuts Christmas Trolley. It looks like they'll put some LEDs on the one pole but I'd want to see it before buying.

In keeping with the Prime Directive of this thread, I would like to add:

I am VERY glad that Lionel is STILL IN BUSINESS and producing product for consumption.

I am POSITIVE I will not be ordering anything therein*.

Andre

* My primary modeling medium is HO. My small 3-rail interests primarily lie within vintage traditional. LOL!

Surprised and delighted by the Heislers - Weyerhauser specifically.  The two Star Wars chase cars are fun.  I agree with earlier wish list of video for some of these items with sound or motion.
Peanuts themed items are well chosen.  The illuminated tv boxcars are creative.  The gantry crane is very tempting.  I echo an earlier comment that the Area 51 Evidence Scrubber car is hilarious.  That is the item I may not be able to pass up.

I’m curious about the Halloween & Christmas Disconnect Candy Dump cars.  I can see a whole Rube Goldberg series of events - R/C scoop and dump m&m’s into cars, take cars to unload, dump into sack, convey sack to kid (or Sr in a nursing home).  Spilled m&m’s are a bonus.

@hirailsteve posted:

I do wish Lionel tagged products sprinkled throughout the catalog that were pre/postwar inspired. Prices aside they are honoring their history it was just a bit disorganized.

I think they tried to be helpful by putting the "125th" section (the section with the black header at the beginning) up front to highlight all of those things, but maybe it just caused confusion. I saw multiple YouTubers who got through that section and moved into the "normal" section of the catalog and didn't understand why it went "back" to Vision steam locos.

@Big Jim posted:

Looks like the only thing that I will be waiting for is for the new Hallmark catalog and the Lionelville Table Decoration.

The little ZW in the corner was a nice touch!

@J.Dooley posted:

The little ZW in the corner was a nice touch!

This appears to be a much larger version of the same ornament that Hall mark produced years ago. The ornament is pretty neat as the ZW does make the train go forward or reverse.