3R Blasphemy?

@Matt_GNo27 posted:

@MainLine Steam, while I whole-heartedly endorse this endeavor of yours, it would appear that yes, you've been banned, er, shunted to the 2R board. I'm also concerned that your tagline no longer fits. "Say what you will, but I refuse to outgrow Toy Trains!" It would appear that you have actually outgrown toy trains and are now firmly in the model train world. Please update your tagline before the 2R forum moderators are forced to take punitive action.

;-)

ROFLMAO  Thank you!

Point well taken, but to me they are all toys.  That includes all my years in HO.

Also a car guy and refer to the vehicle kept in the garage that doesn't take me to work in the winter that way.

Being a Mechanical Design Engineer I can go on and on about what does true scale actually mean.  Even the absolute best Proto 48 is not exactly accurate to the prototype.  There is that pesky thing called the laws of physics.  Examples; the thickness of the glass in the windows, the size of the hinge pin for the doors, etc, etc.  BTW do the brakes actuate pneumatically as in the Prototype?  (yeah I'm just being a jerk now, but I know it)

I don't know. You look like a model railroader to me.

Jim,    From what I can gather reading the bulk of the posts here, I think your biggest issue will ensuring your wheels work correctly on ME track (I'd definitely recommend code 148. You are NOT going to fare well with 3 rail wheels, mainly STEAM engines. The flanges are NOT compatible with 2 rail track. Everything else is a lot less of a hassle changing. That said, if you are going 2 rail, buy 2 rail, there is plenty of it around.

RC Battery as power is in my opinion the way to go and batteries will only get better.

Good Luck

ECI

@GG1 4877 posted:

Jim,

DeadRail has a lot of potential for me as I can enjoy outdoor railroading most of the year.  There are not a lot of 2 railers in AZ in general.  I don't know of more than 3 in the entire state, but I am sure there are a few more.

You can see photos of the Paradise and Pacific Club layout at this website.

It is a great club and very friendly.

What a great video of Jonathan's club - well worth a watch!  I think I heard the narrator say they can run 18 trains on 4 mainlines.

@EastCoastIron posted:

Jim,    From what I can gather reading the bulk of the posts here, I think your biggest issue will ensuring your wheels work correctly on ME track (I'd definitely recommend code 148. You are NOT going to fare well with 3 rail wheels, mainly STEAM engines. The flanges are NOT compatible with 2 rail track. Everything else is a lot less of a hassle changing. That said, if you are going 2 rail, buy 2 rail, there is plenty of it around.

RC Battery as power is in my opinion the way to go and batteries will only get better.

Good Luck

ECI

Thats not correct!  Most will run on code 148, without a problem.  Its the turnouts.  Toy Flanges hang up on the points and guard rails on the frogs of the Atlas and many other turnouts. (these are an open frog switch's)  The answer is to use a closed frog switch.  This allows the oversized flanges to pass trough the  turnout with out a problem! ( S scale and Old School O Gaugers used them for decades).  Please see link  Building a Closed Frog Switch - Bristol S Gauge Railroaders (clubexpress.com)          With on board power and control (AKA Dead rail)  You can now  run lionel flyer  mth trains on 2 rail scale track, with out an issue!

@c.sam posted:

What a great video of Jonathan's club - well worth a watch!  I think I heard the narrator say they can run 18 trains on 4 mainlines.

Thanks Sam!  The record is 18 trains under DCC on the mainline.  Not long trains and it takes a skilled hand to operate them all without causing accidents.  My preference there has always been one long train, but I don't hold that record.  The longest train run on that layout was 144 car long ore train.  My longest was 75 cars, but they were all 40' and longer cars.

@MainLine Steam posted:

ROFLMAO  Thank you!

Point well taken, but to me they are all toys.  That includes all my years in HO.

Also a car guy and refer to the vehicle kept in the garage that doesn't take me to work in the winter that way.

Being a Mechanical Design Engineer I can go on and on about what does true scale actually mean.  Even the absolute best Proto 48 is not exactly accurate to the prototype.  There is that pesky thing called the laws of physics.  Examples; the thickness of the glass in the windows, the size of the hinge pin for the doors, etc, etc.  BTW do the brakes actuate pneumatically as in the Prototype?  (yeah I'm just being a jerk now, but I know it)

Slide glass works, hinges and pins can be done, but the cost of doing pneumatic brakes? wow, that might be a deal breaker Have seen working hand brakes done in both S and 0 scale, but  Physics and practicality, rules.

@Dave Koehler posted:

Have seen working hand brakes done in both S and 0 scale......

Yup. Turn the wheel, crank the chain.....

I have several conventional 3-rail locomotives that I had gone back and forth over converting. The more I think about it, the more dead-rail looks like the best alternative. I'm also thinking that as my 5-volt Proto-2 engines die off I'll switch them to dead-rail as well.

@mwb posted:

Yup. Turn the wheel, crank the chain.....

It was impressive, but this gentleman was a master modeler. Very unpractical but it has been done

@Dave Koehler posted:

It was impressive, but this gentleman was a master modeler. Very unpractical but it has been done

I know - I've seen manual working brakes on O scale cars.

@Dave Koehler posted:

Thats not correct!  Most will run on code 148, without a problem.  Its the turnouts.  Toy Flanges hang up on the points and guard rails on the frogs of the Atlas and many other turnouts. (these are an open frog switch's)  The answer is to use a closed frog switch.  This allows the oversized flanges to pass trough the  turnout with out a problem! ( S scale and Old School O Gaugers used them for decades).  Please see link  Building a Closed Frog Switch - Bristol S Gauge Railroaders (clubexpress.com)          With on board power and control (AKA Dead rail)  You can now  run lionel flyer  mth trains on 2 rail scale track, with out an issue!

Thank you VERY much for this information!  From this and other recent post I had been advised the track would work, but DID NOT understand this difference in turnout types.  Since I am planning to build the turnouts, I can use will method.  Problem Solved!

I wasn't on the the Forum last night I was "way deep" in working on the design of my layout, till it was WAY past time to go to bed.  I get that way.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Thanks Sam!  The record is 18 trains under DCC on the mainline.  Not long trains and it takes a skilled hand to operate them all without causing accidents.  My preference there has always been one long train, but I don't hold that record.  The longest train run on that layout was 144 car long ore train.  My longest was 75 cars, but they were all 40' and longer cars.

I know won't be running 100+ cars on the home layout I am planning.  The Mainline isn't that long!  But that is way cool, if you can do it.

On the subject of "intricate" modeling discussed above.

In my professional life, when someone asks me if the idea that have can be done, my response is YES I can design anything you want.  If the customer has an UNLIMITED budget it's no problem.

The response would be, well how much do you think it will cost?

I would say without getting it all designed, and getting quotes I can take a guess, "I am shooting from the hip".  On the other hand, by past experience, I usually can be within 20%.  Also be advised, since we haven't done it before, it is going to add to the lead time.  That's because we don't have "references" to use, and it will require many new parts, and engineering analysis, to be sure it actually will work as intended.  I am not making excuses or dragging my feet, I just want you to understand the implications of what you are asking.  Oh and BTW if the analysis indicates a problem we may not be able to do it!  There is this pesky thing called the Laws of Physics.  I can design anything but THAT DOESN'T mean it can be built!

This is why I ask so many question before I start to "execute" a project.  With the products I designed you didn't get a second chance to get it right.  I saw a lot of co-workers have to "fall on their swords".  People get upset when you make a $10M dollar mistake.  Go figure.

Hopefully my O Scale Empire won't cost THAT much, but the way I have been buying stuff who knows.  BTW at some points the checks are gonna bounce, my pockets aren't that deep.  I am a design engineer, not an investment banker, or wall street trader.

Thanks to ALL that have posted!