3rd rail quality

aaron,

I don't have any big steam, but that sure looks fine to me!

The video was great and the sounds bring back a lot of memories.

I'm getting my first 3rd Rail engine (E7) soon, I hope it's as good as your Y6a.

They are no better or worse than anyone else.  I have had queens and lemons.  But, their service is second to none.

 Just some observations, detail from 3rd rail is a given,thats what they do. Its apples an oranges as far as operation is concerned because those Lionels have either first gen oddyssey, or in the case of the a(I think) none. Lionel has fixed the nonprototypical 2 chuffs and poor slow speed performance in recent years. That sound you hear out of the 3rd rail loco is...well... Lionels. Mth locos have always been fantastic smooth runners command or conventional, due to the design of the speed control, and oh theres that thing about the Mth smoke. I'd love to give a 3rd rail loco a try however my 0-60 radius max has its limitations as far as the detail/operation of a 3rd rail loco.I wish their large locos would negotiate tighter radius like those of other manufacturers, but then that would distort the market and product they offer, not a fair wish by any means. Lastly, theres definately something to be said for Scott Mann, chiming in here on the forum from time to time, giving third rail fans product info "right from the horses mouth".

I wasn't really comparing either Arron, just explaining why those older Lionels speed control is not on a par with 3rd Rail no more no less.I wasn't saying one was better than the other , you asked for thoughts. Thanks for posting the video link, 3rd rails Y6 is a great loco indeed!

I have a 3rd rail big boy, the detail is awesome. 3rd rails details are the best IMO, it makes the 3 rail scale crowd happy. Since there locos are all scale most eat up alot of real estate when it comes to curves 072 or larger.  I do believe there are a few of their locos that run on smaller 054. Mine barley runs on the 072 the big boys overhang is very noticeable.

George

My 3rd Rail B&LE 2-10-4 is my favorite engine.  I have replaced the TMCC board with PS2 but that is just personal preference.  I did not, however, care for the TAS smoke unit.  

Dave

aka King Mouse

The quality of 3rd Rail locomotives is excellent in my view.  Sometimes there will be an issue out of the box, but that is not any different than with other manufactures.  Serious issues at least in my case have been very rare.  As has already been stated I believe, the service you recieve is first rate.  If you communicate a problem to 3rd Rail it is not at all unusual to recieve a reply directly from Scott Mann assuring you that they will do everything they can to make the situation right.  More importantly, I can only speak for myself, but when I've had an issue with a product they have in fact made it right.

Beyond all of that, the detail is great and the best thing in my view is that they make available such a wide range of steam locomotives at an affordable price.  I have grown to think of them as scale operating pieces of artwork!  I have a B&O T3 w/rectangular tender that when running down the rails looks and sounds so much like those T3's in the vintage video footage I've seen, it is simply amazing.   

I guess you can tell I like my 3rd Rail Locomotives.  Bill B.

This is a tough one.  Scott Mann is a good man and there is no doubt in my mind that his engines have the best detail.  I own and have run the 3rd Rail ATSF Mountain and the Lionel VL UP Challenger as well as the new Legacy-equipped Lionel ATSF 3751.  As much as I was ready to swear off Lionel and jump on the 3rd Rail bandwagon, I just couldn't do it.  The Legacy engines performed significantly better from a start.  With momentum dialed up, the Legacy engines rolled out as if actually pulling 1000's of tons, while I found the Mountain to behave as if it were an on/off switch.  The braking characteristics of the Legacy engines are far more realistic than that of the 3rd Rail engine.  The sound quality of the 3751 was far superior to that of the 3rd Rail Mountain.  This is true for the realism of the recording as well as overall volume and clarity.  The Lionel 3751 makes certain sounds such as air let-off, brake squeal, and even the sound of couplers stretching at the start, that the Mountain does not.  Basically, the 3rd Rail Mountain had a generic quality, while the 3751 sounded more realistic.  Comparing the 3rd rail sound to the VL Challenger is simply not fair.

Despite how much I wanted to be a loyal 3rd Rail customer, I just can not bring myself to buy Scott's engines because for me the play value of the Legacy engines outweigh 3rd Rail's incredible detail and fidelity to the prototype.

If Scott is ever able to install the Legacy OS in his engines I would happily spend my hard earned dollars on his engines rather than Lionel.

Just got my E7A and E7B units, yet to have a chance to test them. They look great to me. SP Daylights!

I have 30-32 2 rail steam and diesel locomotives, 3 or 4 brass items left, a Rivarossi 4-4-0, a few Weaver FA's, the rest are Atlas O and 3rd Rail-Sunset, I love both, the best thing to happen to 2 rail O in forever.

My 3rd rail steamers have been a little work to get them good on my Atlas O track with 52" min R, I have 2 Cab-Forwards, 2 Mountains, 2 Pacifics, 2 Moguls, but they have been in every instance easier to get running smooth on my layout then any of my brass. Period. I have steep grades and Atlas O 5.5's and Old-Pullman #6 curved turnouts.

I totally support the EFFORT and RESULT in everyway of 3rd Rail, Atlas O and Weaver in the growth of 2 rail O!

I think some of you have "amnesia", think about 2-rail O, all the stuff, scratch-built,

or high-end brass or old Atlas/Rivarossi, come on my good friends, realize progress!!!

Just my thoughts,

ncng

   I have the Third Rail Y6a 2165.  It runs quite well on 60 inch radius curves both forward and backward and with and without a heavy train of 14 Atlas diecast hopper cars.  I did adjust a few items for clearance though after one of my plastic people was swept from a passenger platform!  If you can not run on 60 inch radius I would suspect a bind in drawbar, electronic coupling etc and call Dr Mann!

I just can not bring myself to buy Scott's engines because for me the play value of the Legacy engines outweigh 3rd Rail's incredible detail and fidelity to the prototype.

That says it all play value vs. fidelity to scale which is probably why Scott posts his announcements on the 3RS section of the Forum.

I am very impressed with Legacy but the scale value of something like the recent Lionel Santa Fe 3751 couldn't get me to budge.  I can always pick them up later at a good discount.  However, I bought two 3rd Rail 2900 Class Santa Fe Northerns.  I was hooked on these Santa Fe engines 3rd Rail did because of the accurate detailing.  There aren't very many manufacturers that would take the time to properly model the only three 2900 Class engines that had roller bearing rods, Box Pok drivers on axles 1 & 3 and ribless Baldwin Discs on the 4th axle and accurately numbered just like the prototypes.   Lionel's 3751 & 3759 are not scale (although very close) and are not painted correctly (although close). 

The detailing on Detailing on the 3759 is a bit off.  If you look at the top of the boiler between the cab and the steam dome, there is a pipe that is not modeled.  The pipe does not exist on the prototype 3751 but does exist on 3759.

Picture of Lionel's 3759:

The real 3759:

3751 and 3759 were not   On the other hand the 3rd Rail 3751 from the very early 2000's without TMCC (ie conventional w/QSI sound) actually has the correct whistle and is scale.  The Lionel engine is a bit short.

But what do I know, my desire to have the most accurate engines possible has driven me start buying 2 rail Key engines. 

Basically, the 3rd Rail Mountain had a generic quality, while the 3751 sounded more realistic.

Sound wise, the 3rd Rail Mountain's sound is more generic.  Lionel won't let it be otherwise.  However, assuming the 3rd Rail engine is the Santa Fe 3700 Class 4-8-2, it is one of the finest examples of a Santa Fe steam engine ever made.  Here is a comment by one of the finest craftsmen and experts in the business.  I just purchased some detail parts Gary had cast.  They are superb!

http://www.3rdrail.com/sf3700-review.html

Anyway it is all a matter of choice.  I understand the thrill of Legacy just as I understand the thrill of an accurate model.

We are lucky to be able to have these choices.