"A.C. Gilbert's Heritage"

A reprint of "A. C. Gilbert's Heritage" is to be welcomed. However, we now know more about the products, the history, and the true origins of the demise of the A. C. Gilbert Company than we did 30+ years ago. It is unfortunate that some modest level of revision (at least in the form of a new Forward) was not included in this new edition to bring the reader up to date. Please be advised that this is the last edition with a new cover.

Bob

Bob, I understand your point, but there are tons of stuff in the book not found anywhere else. It is sort of like Tufts book, not perfect but updating it would be an expansive project.

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Bob, I understand your point, but there are tons of stuff in the book not found anywhere else. It is sort of like Tufts book, not perfect but updating it would be an expansive project.

A new forward/introduction could be added to update the reader on more recent developments in our historical knowledge of the company and a mild edit could be performed to correct what we now know to be errors ... both of which would cost very little. For a simple example, we now know that 1946 No. 695 track trips (discussed on page 39) were manufactured in a small quantity because collectors have found them. Items such as this might have been handled with an Addendum. It is nice that the book is being reissued, but it could be improved upon with a rather minimal effort that would be nothing like what would be needed to update and correct the errors in the Bob Tufts' book.

At $35 a copy, why perpetuate misinformation?

Bob

Bob, you would have to contact Don Heimburger and he doesn't watch this site. l think he was ready to send it to the printer a week ago. He didn't mention making any updates.

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Bob, you would have to contact Don Heimburger and he doesn't watch this site. l think he was ready to send it to the printer a week ago. He didn't mention making any updates.

Others and I made our views known (diplomatically) to Don at and around the time of the NASG Convention in August. Some of us offered to help. He indicated at the time that the reissue would definitely be the old book in a new cover.

A shame, really. It's a lost opportunity.

Bob

Idle off-topic question about Chicago  Flyer vs. ACG .  Did only ACG, and not CF, offer O gauge three rail "scale" trains as those known for zinc leprosy just prior to WWII? 

colorado hirailer posted:

Idle off-topic question about Chicago  Flyer vs. ACG .  Did only ACG, and not CF, offer O gauge three rail "scale" trains as those known for zinc leprosy just prior to WWII? 

All manufacturers of trains pre-WWII made items that could be prone to "zinc pest". Zinc pest is the result of lead containation of the zinc alloys used for die casting. Over time the lead precipitates out of the alloy solid state solution resulting in dimensional change, swelling, and internal stresses which crack the part. Dorfan is the most prone; however Lionel, American Flyer Manufacturing Co., and Gilbert American Flyer may be subject to the problem, sample to sample. AFMCo. trains were made for the most part of sheet metal and cast iron, but add-on pieces such light housings and wheels can be affected. Pre-war Gilbert 3/16" scale is more prone to the problem because more die casting was used in what was a new (for the time) line of steam engines and die cast rolling stock. The worst examples are with the prewar Gilbert 0-8-0 switchers from 1941. Lionel scale Hudsons, the chasis of 390E's and 400E's, and cabs of 265E's (as examples) may be afflicted, as well. Luck concerning lead contamination, or rather the lack thereof, determines whether a given piece is affected. During the course of WWII, the origin of zinc pest was determined out of necessity and the problem for the most part was eliminated. The problem does occassionally show up in modern fabrication if the factory was not diligent.

The good news is that the lead precipitation is a time dependent process with specific kinetics. If it has not shown up by now in a vintage train model, it is not likely to occurr in the future. So, a careful examination of a vintage toy train is the key to avoid buying one with the problem in a potential purchase. In many (but not all!) instances, replacement parts are available for repairs.

Maybe more than you wanted to know, but there you are. 

Bob

So what, and how much misinformation is being perpetuated here?

From Quick Casey: "So what, and how much misinformation is being perpetuated here?"

Not sure where your opinion comes from Quick C but Bob explained the whole thing according to everything known about zinc pest for the past several decades. What is your information to add to the discussion?

FlyerRich posted:

From Quick Casey: "So what, and how much misinformation is being perpetuated here?"

Not sure where your opinion comes from Quick C but Bob explained the whole thing according to everything known about zinc pest for the past several decades. What is your information to add to the discussion?

From Bob Brubeck's earlier post.  I didn't think he was eluding to the zinc pest problem.

"A new forward/introduction could be added to update the reader on more recent developments in our historical knowledge of the company and a mild edit could be performed to correct what we now know to be errors ... both of which would cost very little. For a simple example, we now know that 1946 No. 695 track trips (discussed on page 39) were manufactured in a small quantity because collectors have found them. Items such as this might have been handled with an Addendum. It is nice that the book is being reissued, but it could be improved upon with a rather minimal effort that would be nothing like what would be needed to update and correct the errors in the Bob Tufts' book.

At $35 a copy, why perpetuate misinformation?"

Were these track trip zinc? And what else. He said there were a couple things.

I'll defer to Bob to figure out what you mean.

Very thorough explanation of cause of zinc contamination problem, but my question was whether Chicago Flyer made any of the 3 the rail O scale cast engine styles that were later carried on in the two rail ACG trains? Or were they strictly an ACG creation?

I believe they were strictly AC Gilbert

FlyerRich posted:

I believe they were strictly AC Gilbert

Yes, strictly Gilbert. 

It appeared to me from Colorado Hirailer's question that zinc pest was part of his question, as well. It was a wide spread problem beyond just prewar ACG AF. This second question is unrelated to the initial OP thread topic and the five posts that followed from it.

Oh, well. 

Bob