Alex's Red Caboose GP9 and F3 Projects

If you want 2-rail, you can get a nice single motor power kit from P&D hobbies based on the original Weaver Drives.     I suggest you ask for the Delrin trucks because they come with 8 wheel pickup.   You have to design your own for the brass trucks.

Also P&D has a lot of various detail parts to customize the model including brass grab irons and lift rings which are much more sturdy than the styrene ones in the kit.

I second Jim's P&D Hobby recommendation, Alex.

American Scale Models and Des Plaines Hobbies are 2 other potential good sources of drive and detail parts. I often see these kind of items on eBay as well.

Good luck!

John

Thanks guys. I knew about P&D as I plan to purchase the repower kit sometime in the future. Regarding the Delrin trucks, is the detail about the same as brass? I currently have the body kit and the brass frame from Des Plaines, but have not bought any detail parts yet. I would like to paint it in Great Northern colors, but how would I create the five steps on the locomotive?

Cant wait to see how this comes together.  I myself prefer the sprung brass trucks, extra power pickup isnt that hard to design up, done it in HO, and I am sure I can do it in O scale.  I am planning to do a BN GP7u chop nose road number 1410.   A gentleman on ebay has the chop nose/rounded roof cab, and is planning to do the 4 exhaust stack(liberated exhaust its called)  I will be watching your build closely.    Mike

Was looking at Great Northern GP9s and found a paint scheme I liked. I created an okay looking drawing of how it may look. Actual model will look a lot better than this!

So the modifications that need to be done are:

• Change from four steps to five steps, as GN used five steps on their GP9s.
• Extra grab irons
• Roof-mounted bell - I do not know where I can find this, maybe could have someone 3d print one?
• 'Nail' antenna - Maybe I can fine one in brass from Des Plaines or P&D? Maybe 3d print as well?
• Leslie 3-Chime air horn - Is it an S3L or an S3KR? Cannot seem to find information on this.
• All-weather window(s) - Could use 3d printed one(s), if they are the same as the ones on GN GP9s.
• Kadee couplers or maybe Sergent couplers - Is there one with magnetic gladhands?

Lionel2056 posted:

Was looking at Great Northern GP9s and found a paint scheme I liked. I created an okay looking drawing of how it may look. Actual model will look a lot better than this!

So the modifications that need to be done are:

• Change from four steps to five steps, as GN used five steps on their GP9s.
• Extra grab irons
• Roof-mounted bell - I do not know where I can find this, maybe could have someone 3d print one?
• 'Nail' antenna - Maybe I can fine one in brass from Des Plaines or P&D? Maybe 3d print as well?
• Leslie 3-Chime air horn - Is it an S3L or an S3KR? Cannot seem to find information on this.
• All-weather window(s) - Could use 3d printed one(s), if they are the same as the ones on GN GP9s.
• Kadee couplers or maybe Sergent couplers - Is there one with magnetic gladhands?

I'll take a crack at your list.  Take my suggestions with a grain of salt, as I couldn't find much in the way of photos showing any of the rooftop details.

Steps - Des Plaines offers an etched detail sheet for gp9's, which includes radiator screens and shutters, as well as replacement steps.  The part # is OSA-1057.  I'm not sure how many steps are included in each set, so you may need two sets to get enough for a 5-step version.

Extra grabs - if you can't find a detail part from Des Plaines or P&D, you can use Tichy phosphor bronze wire to bend your own.

Roof-mounted bell - you may be able to use one of the roof-mounted bells from an Atlas switcher.  I couldn't tell from photos exactly what the bracket and air piping arrangement was on the GN units, so I can't say for sure if the Atlas bell will match.

"Nail" antenna - again, without better photos it's hard to tell exactly what this looks like, but it would seem to resemble a firecracker antenna with a disc on top.  If a part can't be found, this should be easy to fabricate from brass or styrene tube and rod, plus a brass disc for the cap.

Horn - I didn't dig too deep, but I did find a GNRHS article on detailing HO gp9's, and it listed the Details West AH-190 horn in the parts list.  Per Details West, that would be a Leslie RSL-3l-r.  An image can be found in the DW online catalog.  It appears to be very similar to the PSC EMD 3 chime horn (PSC 5659).

All weather windows - Bill Davis of American Scale Models has the ex-Overland parts stock, and I know I have seen all weather windows on his site.  I also know that somebody here on OGR recently described sourcing 3d printed parts from Shapeways.  I don't remember the thread, but it had to do with Atlas EMD switchers.  I have no idea if any would match the GN prototype.

Couplers - I don't believe that Sergent does O scale couplers.  Kadees will work, or you can try Protocraft in brass or San Juan in plastic for nice renderings of Type E couplers.

Here's a link to a nice build thread starting with a Red Caboose model.  There are some photos in there showing how the steps turn out.  He also used the Protocraft couplers and there are photos of those as well.

For proto info, you might check with the GN historical society.  Also check to see if Diesel Era ever did a study on the GN gp9.  They seemed to cover each road with a photo study, and I'm pretty sure they did a series on the gp9.

Good luck, I hope this helps.

Jim

Here's a link to a nice build thread starting with a Red Caboose model.  There are some photos in there showing how the steps turn out.  He also used the Protocraft couplers and there are photos of those as well.

 

Good luck, I hope this helps.

Jim

I will second that link; I don't know if there's been a better rebuild (with description) than what Ed did here... 

Mark in Oregon

I have always liked these models.  I currently own 4, having purchased my first one 9 (a PRR kit version) in 1992.  They are fun to build, easy to 'bash and can be upgraded with minor difficulty.  The original drive, even with NWSL wheelsets is not the best but it gets the job done with short trains. The best part is they were proudly made in the USA (or at least mostly so as the drive components were AHM pieces from Austria). I like the Delrin trucks because of the pickup situation, but they do not have near the detail of the OCS brass ones.  Keep 'em rolling and thanks for sharing your project Alex!

Quick question:

When I start purchasing 2-Rail track for this engine, what is the minimum curve I need?

I've run mine on the old '70s vintage Atlas track, which has a 24" ( ) radius. It actually works, even with its body-mounted couplers...although I'm sure you'll want to go with something that looks better.

Also (and you probably already know this) the stock axle gears are prone to splitting, so you'll want to replace them with a set from NWSL.  Interestingly, when I got mine it had only (3) geared axles; one was just a "blank"...

Mark in Oregon

Third Rail SD 7/9 a few years ago. 

Does the P&D repower kit have issues with the gears or is that just the original drive?

The repower kit from P&D is awesome!  It is basically the same one used on the '80s- early '90s Weaver diesels which was THE best drive in my opinion.   The Car Works used this drive in many of its brass diesels in the early 90's due to reliability and smoothness. The original Red Caboose GP-9 was available in 2  or 3 rail and can actually take a 16" radius curve.  My pike was a traction pike that I "converted" to diesel and small steam.  I have 18" radius curves formed from old Atlas (black ties, super flexible) track and the GP's will negotiate them with ease, I just had to modify the couplers on the locomotive and first freight car.  The rivet counters will poo poo this for sure but I have fun and can run a wider variety of equipment now vs. just traction models.  Real traction companies that converted to diesel such as the Springfield Suburban in Ohio did similar things so I tell folks that I am just following standard railroad practice. Even the mighty Lehigh & New England had to modify couplers and add a "dummy" air line between their RS-2s and first freight car when negotiating the super sharp curves out of Catasaqua, PA when they retired their 0-6-0's with blind center drivers.

The P&D kit consists of gear towers at each end, which transfer power down to the trucks through a nylon chain and sprockets.  A similar drive system was used by Weaver in the late '80s- early '90s.  Folks have occasionally reported the sprockets or axle gears splitting due to shrinkage, but if that happens it's easy enough to replace them.  You can also use a larger bottom sprocket to obtain slower speeds and smoother operation.  On the whole it's better than the original Atlas/Roco drive.

My biggest lament with the repower kit is that you lose the flywheels.  I did my upgrade years ago; I think I eventually located a universal joint set that allowed me to connect the original dual-flywheel motor to the new chain drive towers.

If you're starting with a 2-rail model, you should try to obtain one of the milled brass frames as described in the build thread linked above.  The original plastic frame is pretty flimsy!!

There are three ways to do the chassis use a brass chassis already cut or a Finescale 360 (hard to find) or get a piece of 3mm brass and cut your own. The brass chassis already cut is worth hunting down. I bought one and used it as a template for a couple more using 3mm brass plate as I mentioned above. If you don't want to go to all this trouble and expense just use the original plastic and put a bit of weight where you can you will find lots of information on these locos on the internet if you troll around long enough this is old stuff been around for a long time now, years in fact.

The all weather windows are from Shapeways I bought some recently for my SW's. Roo.

Hi guys,

I wanted to mention that I already have the brass frame. I purchased one not long after I got the GP9 body kit. And I had read that the brass frame allows direct installation of the P&D repower kit. Also, thank you for the help guys, I appreciate it!

So, after looking at photos of GN GP9s, I finally figured out how to add the fifth step. Also, I figured out how to create the bell. Here are some ideas I have:

• Bell - Bracket is trapezoidal, and constructed of somewhat flat steel(?). Could create bell bracket from flat pieces of styrene, drill hole in center of top piece, and glue in bell. Pipe or wire (not sure what it is) could be made from really thin wire bent into shape.
• Steps - There are what looks like 'horns' on the sides of the pilot. In the prototype photos, it appears that these were extended downwards, so that a fifth step could be installed on each one. (You will see this when looking at pictures of Great Northern GP9s)

Quick question,

I have been thinking about modifying and painting this engine to resemble one of Southern Railway's 'Sylvan Green' GP9s. I noticed in the prototype photos, that some of these engines have a narrow fuel tank (about 800 gallons). If I decide to build Southern 2501 (Sylvan Green with the 800 gallon tank), would I have problems fitting DCC and a speaker above a P&D drive, inside the carbody?

Depends on several factors:

single or dual tower drive, size of decoder and speaker.

you might mount a decoder vertically in one end, the speaker in the other end where the fan openings are.

you do need care not to place the decoder too close to the plastic body, (at least the heat sink side).

you can also perforate the bottom of the fuel tank to locate speaker there. Unless you plan to fill it with weight

the late Joe G, former publisher of OST, wrote a blog article on decoding that engine. It’s online.

If I could fine the one single detail part that seems to be made of unobtainium, I would start my own GP7 build.  I cannot for the life of me fine one of the Detail Associates Prime Stratolite beacons.  Without it, the engine wont look right for what I am looking to do.  I do plan on the brass chassis and brass trucks from P&D.   Mike the Aspie

Mike, I may have cornered the market - I seem to be way overstocked.   

If this is what you need, LMK your address by pm or email -  gp9u at rogers dot com  - and I'll mail you one. 

Decided to work on another engine for now. Got an F2/F3 kit to work on. Will be Northern Pacific 6003 when finished. GP9 will be either a GN, NP or SP&S unit to go with F3.

Been working on the GP9 this week. Decided I liked how the Belt Railway of Chicago geeps looked, so here's a couple of photos.

GP9 - Good amount of progress made recently. Model will be based off of a BRC (Belt Railway of Chicago) GP9. Still needs a repower kit or an Atlas F9 for drive.

Things to do (GP9):

• Replace fragile plastic parts, like lift rings, grab irons, hand rails, etc., with stronger brass parts
• Lights
• Purchase P&D repower kit or Atlas F9 (For trucks and motor)
• Paint
• DCC & Sound (Loksound V5 with Tang Band speaker)

F3 - May need to replace shell and start over. Previous brand of glue used 'frosted' a few parts. I was very unhappy with what happened so in my infinite wisdom, I pulled the parts off. Very bad idea.

Things to do (F2/F3/F7/F9):

• Replace shell
• Lights
• Paint
• DCC & Sound (Loksound V5 with Tang Band speaker)

Been a while since I last posted, but...

Finally some progress!

After (probably) messing up two shells, the third one turned out OK.  Now to get more screws, clear plastic parts and other things and keep working...

I too am working on a couple of GP9's.  They will be Illinois Central.  I am using the P&D brass trucks with FineScale adjustable tower drive and frame.  To finish these units I will need some additional RC parts which did not come with the body kit I bought from Des Plaines.  I will need the fuel tank (3), air tanks (2) and window/headlight clear plastic parts (2).  Does anyone know where I can get these parts?  

Please advise.

Thanks