Any one still design a layout by pencil?

Pencil and paper. Used 1/2"=1'-0 scale usually on 11x17 drawing pads which accommodated my overall dimensions and typical 15'x25' layouts of the past. The 1/2" scale worked for a plastic curve template I had acquired at an art shop years ago.

Giant gum eraser required. 

Much smaller drawing pad for current 9x16 round the room attic layout [room9x19]. Just did ugly freehand sketches on notebook paper.

Love sketching track plans on paper and then visualizing in my head---works as good as any computer I've ever been on 

Sure, the pencil and paper served me well.  I made the benchwork as large as I could comfortably fit In my new train room, carpeted it, place track every which way till my wife and I were happy with it.  Wired it up with DCS, got some PS-2 trains and I have been very, very happy with it.  Yes, it is green outdoor carpet, yes, it is mostly flat, yes, to a lot of things including each time I see the layout experiencing my heart skipping several beats thinking of my Dad and brother playing with it with me.  That can no longer happen.  

By day, I am a mechanical designer so my work day is in Autocad and Inventor; 2D and 3D modeling. 

When it comes to my track plan, I always have a basic sketch of what I want to do then, if I have enough Fastrack sections to lay out on the floor I will, else I go to my track plan software. Once I am satisfied with that designed section it will always be finished in a track plan software for accuracy, needed track and the ability to have redundant copies for archiving. 

When I build a layout, it will always be fluid. Nothing will be permanently attached to the table. 

The only way is a pencil with a really big eraser.

I'm 64 and I've been using pencil and paper for years doing track plans.  My scale is

a half inch to the foot.  For curves, I use jar lids and bottle caps in the sizes I need.

Since I'll be working with traditional Lionel O Gauge track, the caps and lids are scale

31, 42, 54 and 72-inch diameters.  All drawn lines represent the center rail of the

track.  My final plan for the build will be no bigger than 12 X 16 feet, so all these

plans fit on a single sheet of paper.  I've been having a ball doing this, so it'll be a

loss of sorts when I finally make up my mind which plan to actually build with.

     Hoppy

,

I am old enough where I wish I was younger but I remember reading this book every night and pencil sketching designs of my own HO empire as a kid the next day....

The present layout I have now was done with pencil and paper as were all the rest of my layouts. I don't use graph paper. Just plain paper and a pencil. For myself I guess I just like doing it this way rather then using a computer with a track program................Paul

"The only way is a pencil with a really big eraser."

Also my perfect answer Jim.

Larry

I'm still planning the design of my semi-permanent layout, but I've used both my computer and drawings to do it. I found that I like drawing it better. The scales that I used were 1''=1' and 1/2''=1' (The reason for the different scales was that I drew it at different times for separate designs). I drew them on several sheets of paper for one section of the layout per piece of paper.

I have a copy of that book I got when I was a teenager.  I looked through it again and again and again.  The pages are well worn.

I, also had some of those track plans books when I was a kid, dreaming of the day I'd have a big room to put a layout into.

Now, the cold-hard reality has set in that I have am 11X10 room and that is that.

I've thumbed through a few of them now and I'm not nearly as impressed as I used to be. Layout design has gone way beyond the 'glorified folded loop with a few short spurs' concept that was the staple of layouts back when many of these books were written.

I've found this thread says a lot!

Computers can be a big pain. I am the first to admit that!

But, draw track plans by hand?

You gott'a be kidding!

What do you think was used before there were computers  ??   The greatest inventions and designs ever created were done without computers. 

Yep, there were a few things that computers had nothing to do with their design process... Nothing special, but:

 Y'know, little, insignificant stuff like that... Or in other words, just about every single thing that was ever made until sometime in the 70s.

I used pencil to write down the measurements to cut the lumber and track.  Still do not have a pencil or computer drawing of the layout.  All plans were and still are in my head.

I sketch up plans all the time.

Two thoughts...

1)Wow! Nicely done. Erik, I felt a little better on my own skills when I read your profile, seeing you are an artist.

2)I was waiting for somebody from the younger crowd to ask, what's a pencil!

Yes, I am from the old school of using pencil and paper.

Tom 

Even computers were designed with paper and pencil. Oh the irony! Kind of a chicken and egg thing, but in this case, we do know which came first.

I also ended up using 1/2"=1' scale. I really wanted to use 3/4"=1', but the room is so large, the paper wouldn't fit on my small drafting table. Why 3/4" you ask? It seems like an odd scale. I learned this concept from a train buddy long ago. When you use a scale with a 3 in the top position, you can read inches off your plan easily with a standard tape measure. 3/4" is 12/16" so every 16th is an inch.

Tom, what's this "pencil" you speak of? 

We kid you not  All part of the fun.........

Yes sir!  The pencil helps me translate my thoughts and inspirations on paper. I feel like I can design anything when I'm using a pencil and paper... 

Hi, I'm back with a few words about all the big eraser comments.

From the Old days when all engineering students carried a T-Square and drawing board (next to your slide rule) we used mechanical rotary erasing machines.  I have one and use it with my layout work.  With it, I also use the "erasing shield".

We also used to use a "rabbit".  That is an elastic fabric bag about the size of a bar of soap that was filled with eraser particles.  You can use it 2 ways.  One by kneading the bag to let some of the particles fall on the paper so moving templates, or plastic angle triangles won't smear the drawing.  The other use is to rub the "Rabbit" over smudges to remove unwanted pencil grime.

I also have made up all common radii circles drawn with a "Compass" and cut out old file folders with scissors.

Just a little "Old School" for your information.

Thanks...   Tom     O-Scale 2-rail

I often make several sketches before formalizing something using RR-Track. It's a lot more efficient to sketch it up first.

Tom,

Yes, we used the eraser shield and the "rabbit".  I don't remember what we called it, but it wasn't rabbit.  I took my slide rule to work one day about 10 years ago to show a younger fellow, and I couldn't remember how to use it. 

I am 74 and grew up with the slide rule so paper and pencil is at the heart of my comfort zone.  I used white butcher paper 18” wide and drew a grid with 1” squares.  Used this to design benchwork and track plan.  A scale ruler and compass worked fine for drawing curves.  My train room is 13.5’ x 19’.   Track work is GarGraves flex track, Ross and GarGraves switches with 3 continues loops - 72”, 63” & 49”.  Minimum radius is 42”.   My grade elevation is 2.9%.   The bump and go trolly run does have a few pieces of Ross 031”.   Switches are controlled by under mounted Tortoise machines with two DZ-1000 switch machines used where I needed the non derailing feature.  I’m not quite two years into the project.  Currently working on a styrofoam mountain and other scenery features.  Most track is painted and ready for ballasting.  

sharp layout. Lots of work for 2 years time. Show us more!

garlander, you are an inspiration.

Post some more photos, please.

My professional life requires CATIA. My train room uses pencil and paper. I do span quite a few generations and while there for the birth of the indegrated chip, which was first designed on paper, I find scant enjoyment drawing on a computer. People can hardly realize that we went to the moon on slide rule accuracy which if you have really good eyes might be 3 decimal places.

Bogie

Thanks for your interest.  Currently the layout is under more construction and messy with styrofoam chips and lots of rough cuts.  Have attached a few archive pics showing some of the build up.  I really do not have any detailed sections worth showing at this time, thus the construction pics which give a better view of my track plan.  The sub roadbed is 3/4 OSB scavenged from construction dumpsters which are available in our development.  They also contain lots of useable pieces of 1" and 2" styrofoam insulation board.   Half inch Homasote is glued to the OSB with cork roadbed supporting the track.  I have been filling in with plaster cloth, some rock molds and styrofoam carvings.  The bridge is crafted from OSB, Homasote, 1/8 masonite and balsa wood.  All the retaining walls and tunnel portals are made from scavenged styrofoam and foam board.  I am going through the learning curve regarding carving and weathering styrofoam land forms.  I am not totally there yet.  Found a lot of help on the internet.  So yes, I have warped into the computer age.  As I gather momentum this fall/winter, I will posts some updates.  

Dave

Here it is.  We called it a "Rabbit" but this is the Dry Cleaning Eraser Pad.  Anyone in Pencil could use one of these.  I'm sure they are available at any reasonable art store...

I always like to do mine on graph paper before entering into the program.  Helps me to keep my mind focused on the ultimate design I had in mind.  Once done, then I can modify.  LOL  Sounds crazy, but works for me.

 Dave B has my favorite out. Oil crayons. I'm not even the good with them but they are so much fun.

 Drafting 4, Architecture 2. My school "leaders" pulled me out of industrial drawing and stuck me in graphics so a jock could get a fake grade, and a free ride.

Sports and higher education became the systems focus, not general education.

 It cost me a local ride in my chosen field. (Which CAD would have killed for me At least in graphics a camera and keylines could still be worked in for a while )

I still hold my razors with my mouth to free my hands It freaks people out

 Graphics in high school led to Commercial art, computer graphics, big camera, press and bindery. Big Heidelbergs to little AB Dick 369T's pumping out fliers at full speed.

 IBM/Varitype/Lantastic, & early Apple typesetters (fastest in steel block & old Varitype machines too). Silk screening I should have been a surgeon  

When my favorite teacher (boy was he oinery but that free ride bit cost him my respect) challenged me to draw an inch without a ruler, I did 4" .

 That got me graded by blue prints with him holding them against the lighted window for the year. (it reveals line inconsistency)(still got the A ) 

 I just don't care for the "perfection" as much anymore. Just the art.

Small drafting/light table, my high school T-square, portable 15"x15" Oak pad/table with its own little T-square. 2 modern cartridge calligraphy sets, one with replaceable tips, one antique set/fixed tips, a full drafting ink set including bow compasses.  

Sooooo......I use both, paper and keyboard.

I'll sketch as I think. Later, I'll apply it to the program.

 The programs are closer guesses  than most sketched on paper plans. The part lists are "instant".

  To me, newer software with 3d views are an obvious advantage over programs without. Each angle of view is done NOW! 

  Its not perfect, but very usable visually. That's what I was waiting for in a program I guess.

  I would have paid for it, but it seemed no software mfg. was willing to step up.

(Now they have had to! Thanks Mixy)

 I was already using MS-Paint over the top of Anyrail when it came up short.

   When I started with Scarm I found it hard at first, and almost gave up.

But I thought hard about it and knew the 3d would be worth the learning curve.

I was also used to how easy Anyrail is to use.

Nothing beats hands, on with real track. Until you get into a complexed design 

I will likely skip the more serious sketching now, leaving it for the "front porch dreaming" only. The "light box"(computer) is just to easy to ignore.

Saves pennies on paper for the circular file too. 

 You guys realize you can print out the plans as a template, and lay the paper on the board right?

  Being able to use printed patterns was a semi-big deal once upon a time.

Their accuracy wasn't always great either.

Which program didn't work out, and how far off was it?

I bet it was set up so that Lionel tubular was measured at the center rail by mistake.

Most other track gauges are measured that way, from center to center=diameter.