Applying power/wire to Gargraves Flex-Track

I would

Do it !  And if you have a decent sized layout, solder feeder wires to more than just one or two places.

There's another discussion on this same subject.

Tying Outside Rails Together

Thanks guys...

Ponz

With Gargraves and Ross track all three rails are separated electrically, so you will have to add power wires to all three rails if you to have good electrical connections. Hot wire to center rail and common to the two outside rails.

Watch out for electrical connections at the Gargraves switches or should I say lack of electrical connections, see if the center rail power goes through or not.

Lee Fritz

phillyreading posted:

With Gargraves and Ross track all three rails are separated electrically, so you will have to add power wires to all three rails if you to have good electrical connections. Hot wire to center rail and common to the two outside rails.

Watch out for electrical connections at the Gargraves switches or should I say lack of electrical connections, see if the center rail power goes through or not.

Lee Fritz

Thanks Lee

I solder wire feeders to all three rails, one common feeder is 12 inches long the other 8 inches long, the hot center rail feeder is 12 inches long. Both ends of all feeders are insulation stripped approximately 1/2 inch both ends, the outside common feeder and hot feeder are routed under all three rails, adjacent to the inside common feeder a 1/4 inch hole is drilled through the 1/2 inch plywood sheet  for routing the feeders below the train board.

I use Gargraves tin plate Phantom rail, the hot rail must be stripped clean of the black painted/plated finish for soldering. The end of each feeder that is to be soldered to the rail web is bent 90 degrees in plane, then offset bent to bear against the rail web. Assorted spring clamps including wire alligator connectors are used to hold the wire against the rail web, a 200-250 soldering gun is used to solders the wire feeders to the rail web, pre tin the soldering tip and solder flux paste is sometimes used on the rail web.

The opposite end of the 8 inch common feeder is soldered to a stripped segment of the 12 inch common feeder. Line up the end of the 8 inch feed wire with the 12 inch common feeder wire, pencil mark this  location, wire strip the insulation 1/2-3/4 inch, spiral twist the 8 inch 1/2 inch stripped end to this stripped area, and solder the connection, shrink wrap or tape this connection. Now feed the one common wire and one wire through the driiled hole in the plwood sheet, the common wire is butt spliced 14 or 16 gauge stranded wire based on the distance to the solid 12 gauge buss wire. The opposite end of the butt spliced wire is stripped for soldering to the buss, the center hot wire is butt spliced to 12 or 14 gauge stranded wire and routed to toggle switches for solder connection.  Being very conservative, the soldered track feeders are on maximum 6 foot centers to minimize voltage drops.     

Before soldering to the track turn the track over, with a dremel tool grind a small opening length wise in the rail, tin your wire first then solder to the track and follow John O's steps he directs above.

Jack

This is where planning comes in.  Since the outer rails are not tied together you have the opportunity to create insulated rails to provide activation for all sorts of items, signals, crossing gates, etc.  What I tried to do is have one side of the track be my common ground, the other was my activation rail.  You will have to be aware of how your common outside rail routes through turnouts (Ross, gargraves) as you can end up with sections that are not tied to anything.  What I recommend is you have three colors of wire, one for your center rail, one for your common return and one for your insulated side that can be used for future applications.  That way if you want to add or remove something at a later date it will be very obvious.

An alternative to soldering: I used 1/4" spade lugs crimped onto my feeder wires, and then pushed the spade lugs in from underneath the rails. They hold very well. I've also managed to power just two rails and use the other outside rail to trigger accessories, crossing signals, relays and the like. I do use a lot of feeders, but absolutely no dead spots on my layout.

Very informative.  Thanks to all!  I'm liking the the spade lugs idea and alternating outer and inner rails the best...

Ponz

 

CJ Meyers posted:

An alternative to soldering: I used 1/4" spade lugs crimped onto my feeder wires, and then pushed the spade lugs in from underneath the rails. They hold very well. I've also managed to power just two rails and use the other outside rail to trigger accessories, crossing signals, relays and the like. I do use a lot of feeders, but absolutely no dead spots on my layout.

I have done this as well.  I don't have the part number, but Fastenal makes a spade connector that snaps tightly into the web of the track.  I will try to post that tonight.  They are a bit expensive, but they really hold.

Alternatively, GarGraves makes track pins with attached feeder wires (pig-tail connectors).  You can get them in Black, White, and Red.  I've tried them as well.  They are easier than the spade connectors but also pricey.  Still, they are very convenient and I like them.

http://www.gargraves.com/files/DCP_1763.JPG

George

G3750 posted:

CJ Meyers posted:

An alternative to soldering: I used 1/4" spade lugs crimped onto my feeder wires, and then pushed the spade lugs in from underneath the rails. They hold very well. I've also managed to power just two rails and use the other outside rail to trigger accessories, crossing signals, relays and the like. I do use a lot of feeders, but absolutely no dead spots on my layout.

I have done this as well.  I don't have the part number, but Fastenal makes a spade connector that snaps tightly into the web of the track.  I will try to post that tonight.  They are a bit expensive, but they really hold.

Alternatively, GarGraves makes track pins with attached feeder wires (pig-tail connectors).  You can get them in Black, White, and Red.  I've tried them as well.  They are easier than the spade connectors but also pricey.  Still, they are very convenient and I like them.

http://www.gargraves.com/files/DCP_1763.JPG

George

I noted the Fastenal part number and will look into them.  I'm wondering if they're the same as what can be found at Home Depot or Lowes??

Ponz

Ponz,

Here is an example of how I used the "spade tip" version. The white and black are

power leads, and the yellow is for signal operation. If using GarGrave track, spread

the ties to make insertion easier then close them back up. I put a magic marker mark

on the rails where the wires are to go( photo 0009 ) and also mark the train board for drill holes.

Joe

Ponz posted:

G3750 posted:

CJ Meyers posted:

An alternative to soldering: I used 1/4" spade lugs crimped onto my feeder wires, and then pushed the spade lugs in from underneath the rails. They hold very well. I've also managed to power just two rails and use the other outside rail to trigger accessories, crossing signals, relays and the like. I do use a lot of feeders, but absolutely no dead spots on my layout.

I have done this as well.  I don't have the part number, but Fastenal makes a spade connector that snaps tightly into the web of the track.  I will try to post that tonight.  They are a bit expensive, but they really hold.

Alternatively, GarGraves makes track pins with attached feeder wires (pig-tail connectors).  You can get them in Black, White, and Red.  I've tried them as well.  They are easier than the spade connectors but also pricey.  Still, they are very convenient and I like them.

http://www.gargraves.com/files/DCP_1763.JPG

George

I noted the Fastenal part number and will look into them.  I'm wondering if they're the same as what can be found at Home Depot or Lowes??

Ponz

If they are (and I don't really know), they'll be much cheaper at Home Depot or Lowes.  They are really hard to get into the track, and therefore really hard to get out of the track.  They go in with an audible "snap".  I'm older now than when I first started using them; they are a bit hard on the hands.  The GarGraves pig-tail connectors are my favorite nowadays.

I also have a color coding convention.  Red is AC hot (center rail); Black is Common (inner black rail); Green is Insulated Control (outer black rail).  I do not tie the 2 outside rails together and I am consistent in using common rails for specific purposes.

George

JoeTheBro posted:

Ponz,

Here is an example of how I used the "spade tip" version. The white and black are

power leads, and the yellow is for signal operation. If using GarGrave track, spread

the ties to make insertion easier then close them back up. I put a magic marker mark

on the rails where the wires are to go( photo 0009 ) and also mark the train board for drill holes.

Joe

I don't solder either, the black rail is a real pain. Those crimp on tab connectors are the way to go.

JoeTheBro posted:

Ponz,

Here is an example of how I used the "spade tip" version. The white and black are

power leads, and the yellow is for signal operation. If using GarGrave track, spread

the ties to make insertion easier then close them back up. I put a magic marker mark

on the rails where the wires are to go( photo 0009 ) and also mark the train board for drill holes.

Joe

That's what I figured.  Do you run them straight down through your board or do you bend them?

Ponz

What the heck is the difference here between the red & blue, other than price??

https://www.fastenal.com/produ...ils/60049?term=60049

Ponz

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

JoeTheBro posted:

Ponz,

Here is an example of how I used the "spade tip" version. The white and black are

power leads, and the yellow is for signal operation. If using GarGrave track, spread

the ties to make insertion easier then close them back up. I put a magic marker mark

on the rails where the wires are to go( photo 0009 ) and also mark the train board for drill holes.

Joe

I don't solder either, the black rail is a real pain. Those crimp on tab connectors are the way to go.

So - is it the blue or red that SNAP in very snugly?

https://www.fastenal.com/produ...ils/60049?term=60049

 

 

Ponz posted:

What the heck is the difference here between the red & blue, other than price??

https://www.fastenal.com/produ...ils/60049?term=60049

Ponz

Size of wire (gauge). The red is 22-18ga and I believe the blue is 22-14ga

Ponz posted:

JoeTheBro posted:

Ponz,

Here is an example of how I used the "spade tip" version. The white and black are

power leads, and the yellow is for signal operation. If using GarGrave track, spread

the ties to make insertion easier then close them back up. I put a magic marker mark

on the rails where the wires are to go( photo 0009 ) and also mark the train board for drill holes.

Joe

That's what I figured.  Do you run them straight down through your board or do you bend them?

Ponz

I run them straight down. Can't remember why, but seems, bending them presended a

problem.  Also, I used the spades w/o the insulators cause you don't need to drill as

big a hole in the board.  The gravel falls throught the hole when balasting the track

so consider some kind of puddy to seal the holes in the board from the underside.

The red is for smaller wire 16 18 gauge.

The blue is for 14 gauge wire.

There is also a yellow one that is for 12 and 10 gauge.

These colors seem to be an industry standard for the gauge of wire that each connector will fit into and crimp snugly.

MarkStrittmatter posted:

The red is for smaller wire 16 18 gauge.

The blue is for 14 gauge wire.

There is also a yellow one that is for 12 and 10 gauge.

These colors seem to be an industry standard for the gauge of wire that each connector will fit into and crimp snugly.

But, but, but I'm confused.....each description says 16-14 AWG  ??

So...Are you guys using the red or blue ones?  I see that Big Boy posted a pic of the red one.

Either way - 14 or 14/16?

Ponz

It depends on the gauge(size) of wire you are using for feeding power to the track. I used

the 22-18 spade tips(red), because my feeder wires were 18ga.

Joe

Ponz posted:

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

JoeTheBro posted:

Ponz,

Here is an example of how I used the "spade tip" version. The white and black are

power leads, and the yellow is for signal operation. If using GarGrave track, spread

the ties to make insertion easier then close them back up. I put a magic marker mark

on the rails where the wires are to go( photo 0009 ) and also mark the train board for drill holes.

Joe

I don't solder either, the black rail is a real pain. Those crimp on tab connectors are the way to go.

So - is it the blue or red that SNAP in very snugly?

https://www.fastenal.com/produ...ils/60049?term=60049

 

I use the Blue ones with 14 gauge wire.  I tend to drill a larger hole in the sub-roadbed, pass the wire(s) through, flip the track over, install the connector(s), flip the track right-side up and re-install.

George

Ponz, did not mean to confuse the issue.

If you are running feeder wires that are 14 gauge then you need to use the blue spade clip.

If you are running feeder wires that are 16 or 18 gauge then use the red spade clip.

If you look down into the end of the spade clip were you insert the wire you can see the different diameters between the blue and red spade clips.

I thought the 16-14AWG, is the amperage rating of the spade clip, I could be wrong on this fact though. 

 

Again, sorry if I confused the issue.

Have fun !!!!!!

I've actually used the blue ones for 12 gauge. Depending on the style of the connector they can be a very tight fit. Yellow is the next larger size, but for the layout I don't get involved with those.

As promised, here are some photos.

Hope this helps,

George

CJ Meyers posted:

An alternative to soldering: I used 1/4" spade lugs crimped onto my feeder wires, and then pushed the spade lugs in from underneath the rails. They hold very well. I've also managed to power just two rails and use the other outside rail to trigger accessories, crossing signals, relays and the like. I do use a lot of feeders, but absolutely no dead spots on my layout.

Ditto this. 

In fact, I've developed a technique for adding a feeder wire in this manner AFTER the track is down.  IOW, let's say you would like to use the 'insulated common rail' as an accessory activation technique.  So, you simply cut the gaps on one of the common rails.  Then I take a small drill bit....say 1/16" in size...and drill straight down through the sub-roadbed between two ties on BOTH sides of the isolated rail....marking the location for boring the connection access hole. 

I use a 1/4" Forstner bit for the access hole. It's less aggressive, cleaner cutting, and more controllable for this next step.  (Some spade lugs/collars may require opening the hole up to, say, 5/16", I've found)  Now you'll get under the layout, locate the two small holes made as above, and center the 1/4" bit between them.  Then, with the drill running at a slow speed, CAREFULLY drill up through the sub-roadbed until you penetrate between the ties, but avoiding to contact the rail.  Clear the hole of residual drill chips/ballast, grab the spade lug/wire with some sturdy needle-nosed pliers, and push the spade up into the split in the bottom of the Gargraves rail.  It helps avoid damage to the existing track to have a helper pushing down with a block of wood on the rail from above as you're pushing up on the spade lug from below.

It may sound pretty complicated or daunting when you read through this, but believe me, it's really fast and easy after the first couple retrofits. 

FWIW, of course, and TEHO.

KD

Thanks George. It appears that you bend yours. It also looks like you have the wires zip-tied to the underside of your track? How does the track sit level like that?? Ponz

Let's just say that it's a lot easier to plan your rail feeders, and install them when the track is being laid, rather than retrofit. When putting new track down, I use a combination pilot / countersinking drill bit. I just mark where I want the wires to go, and drill down. The countersink makes room for the lug. The nice part about this method is, the wires with the lugs can't pull through the decking.

If I have to add a wire later, that's when I solder. Fortunately, that almost never happens.

Ponz posted:

Thanks George. It appears that you bend yours. It also looks like you have the wires zip-tied to the underside of your track? How does the track sit level like that?? Ponz

This is track removed from a bridge.  There was a piece of wood that ran along the edge of each track to give it a 1/4"-1/2" clearance.  Usually, I just insert the connectors into the track as described above.  And I don't usually bend the connectors.

George

George saidhe spade lug goes in with an audible snap, so you know it is in there. What makes it "snap"?

Has anyone had issues with DCS or TMCC signals when using these connectors? BTW, I usually solder all my connections. I'm interested in these as it would speed up the process considerably.

 

Chris

LVHR

I suspect if you do not spread the ties to insert the spade connector the rail itself will snap around the spade.  What I did was spread the ties, using a screwdriver opened the rail a bit from the underside, inserted the wire parallel to the rail head, moved the tie(s) back completely over the space where the wire ran parallel, this ensured a very firm grip, then I secured the track in place.  I thought using the spade connector just added another joint with a potential for failure in some form or another.  Of course the best way is to solder the wires to the rail.  The method I described was used before I developed any confidence in my ability to solder.  A good solder connection will never fail.  

lehighline posted:

George saidhe spade lug goes in with an audible snap, so you know it is in there. What makes it "snap"?

Has anyone had issues with DCS or TMCC signals when using these connectors? BTW, I usually solder all my connections. I'm interested in these as it would speed up the process considerably.

 

Chris

LVHR

It's not very loud, but "snap" is the best way to describe it.  You can certainly feel it click into place.  This is because of the tightness of the fit.

And I use TMCC.  Absolutely no problem that I am aware of.

George