April 2020 York Friday and Saturday only per EDTCA Facebook feed.

Dave45681 posted:

richabr posted:

The big dealers left the spring meet. How long until they leave the fall meet?

What big dealers? What did the Lionel display sell?

Well there was that infamous boxcar a few years ago.  And various Lionel promotional stuff that didn't sell via dealers.

ogaugeguy posted:

Hopefully Friday and Saturday will be both Members and the Public! 

For dealer, halls, that would make sense. 

For member halls, that's been rehashed many times (here and elsewhere), and these hours won't change the situation there.  (really a different topic, so I hope we don't go down that path in this thread)

-Dave

Sorry, Dave, I should have been more clear, I was only referring to dealer halls, not member halls. Personally, I just visit the dealer halls.

I hate to say it, but this may sound the death knell for the April York Meet. Since Saturday is typically a very slow day, I have to wonder how many dealers are going to travel to York for essentially a one-day meet.  I also wonder how many members will be rethinking their plans. Very sad.

Pat

Like any other business York is no different. Its about making money. Vendors spend thousands of dollars to attend that meet. Things like employee salaries, table rent, food, lodging, snacks/coffee, travel expenses all enter into the equation. If a vendor cannot turn a decent profit they will not continue to attend. The Eastern Division is just reacting to the amount of member admissions and table rental revenues. If the days that the meet is open are scaled back it only means that the demand in not there.  Some hobbyists like myself also stopped attending as the cost of the total experience was not worth the reward. Now figure in the effects of online buying and the changing demographics of those that buy the trains.  All these factors will continue to have a significant impact , on a closed door meet that discourages family participation and targets only a specific customer.  

Bryan in Ohio posted:

That sucks hopefully travelocity will allow me to cancel my non refundable room for Wednesday night (wishful thinking) seeing that I don't have to come in Wednesday now.  Wish they would have given a years notice seeing how many of us make travel, vacation time, and accommodation plans a year out.

Sorry to hear that.  However, for at least a decade it's been unnecessary to book that far in advance. I've gotten my pick of rooms booking 4-5 months ahead, fully refundable.  And frequently , I find a lower rate a week or two before the meet - cancel the old one and save money.

irish rifle posted:

I hate to say it, but this may sound the death knell for the April York Meet. Since Saturday is typically a very slow day, I have to wonder how many dealers are going to travel to York for essentially a one-day meet.  I also wonder how many members will be rethinking their plans. Very sad.

Pat

I've been going twice a year for awhile. ED just freed up several vacation days for me to use for something else.

Agree that it's the start of the death spiral for April York.

Agreed I will still attend but the social component will shrink for all .OGR party as a kickoff on Thursday nite still good idea breakfast Friday AM and then what about LCCA and LOTS get togethers???? October only?? Then the private parties???

Just in case you forgot, York used to be Friday, Saturday only back in the day. Not sure why you would think this is a death spiral. 

SGMA1 posted:

.........

Perhaps a three day fall event and two day spring event would have been a better alternative, but the ED-TCA Board has the numbers to make the prudent choice..............

If you re-read Marty's original post, that is EXACTLY what is happening! 

The 2 days thing is only for April as of this moment(2020, but presumably it will stick and be all Aprils).  October 2020 is still said to be 3 days, and of course the October 2019 is long since set as to days, so it's 3 also.

-Dave

MartyE posted:

Just in case you forgot, York used to be Friday, Saturday only back in the day. Not sure why you would think this is a death spiral. 

Didn't seem that long ago that Thursday afternoon was added.  And when the switch came it was said it's going to kill the bandit meets, which didn't really happen.

I would still look forward to any social gathering for breakfast and dinner, just may make things a bit weirder for breakfast. Maybe start at 4AM breakfast(joking), I think they're open 24/7.

MartyE posted:

Just in case you forgot, York used to be Friday, Saturday only back in the day. Not sure why you would think this is a death spiral. 

Marty, I remember! Also the dealer/manufacturers were under the grandstand in the yellow hall, some set up in the unused food stands under there.

Lionel set up in a tent nearby some years.

I usually visited the dealer/manufacturers last, if at all back then.

Mike

MartyE posted:

Just in case you forgot, York used to be Friday, Saturday only back in the day. Not sure why you would think this is a death spiral. 

I don't recall exactly when, but seems like 20 or so years ago...

a step backwards after so many years is a really bad sign.

not disagreeing with ED's decision, though.

scott.smith posted:

The move to Fridays years ago killed the bandit meets. I usually only spend only one night and that was Thursday. That didn't change when the days changed. Before I went to the bandit meets on Thursday then to the museum and the Thursday's at Fridays. Friday morning opened at 9:00 and I was ready to go. The biggest problem I had when the meet was set-up this way was I didn't always get to all the halls on Friday. If the change helps the dealers and manufacturers then I am all for it.

Scott Smith

I think you have a typo there Scott.  They added Thursday.

Scott smith, You are wrong. The move to Thursday was to hurt the bandit show.  I wish that it would have been changed to 2 full days 9-5 Thursday and 9-5 on Friday. If you come from any distance you still have to stay over Wednesday night. Stupid move.

Didn't seem that long ago that Thursday afternoon was added.  And when the switch came it was said it's going to kill the bandit meets, which didn't really happen.

The Bandit meets, or what is left of them, are a mere shell of what they once were. When York was a 2 day meet the entire parking lot at the Wyndam was filled with tables. Now only a small fraction remain. The Billy Bud is almost non existent but that is due more to the tax laws that were enacted. Best Western is gone.

Bill T posted:

If attendees and sellers decline due to this change it won't be long before York becomes a once a year meet in October.

Pretty much what I have been suggesting for some years now. Not something I necessarily want to see, but our society and our hobby has changed and continues to change (in case you haven't noticed). It is not the "gloom and doom" scenario that some seem to think that it is, but there's no denying that the hobby--and the York Meet--has changed a good bit from the "golden days" of the mid-1980s through the first decade of the current century. We all need to be willing to adapt a bit. I still firmly believe it's the best hobby in the world, and I'll continue to be an advocate for the hobby as a whole and will support groups like the TCA and TCA Eastern that are doing their best to make the adjustments they find necessary.

My recollection is that the hey day of the bandit meets has decreased proportionally with the York meet.  

The Billy Budd used to have the south parking lot reserved only for sellers as well as a circus tent on the grassy knoll.  

The Sheraton parking lot was full of sellers an area 2x of what it is now and was packed.  Having the mall next door eased the parking problem.  

I remember the Best Western meet and a downtown movie theater with a sloped wood floor full of bandits (vendors).

Likewise I remember parking at York going all the way out to the SW corner of the outer fence and aisles you could barely move through.

But that was yesterday, and yesterday's gone. (Sorry couldn't resist).  I hear a lot about the social aspect of York, but I'm not convinced that translates into the table sales needed to stabilize the York meet. 

I sure hope this works out better than that "the public will save us" campaign worked out.

The Valencia Ballroom was the venue downtown back in the 90's.......2 floors. It took a few hours just to get through the Valencia in its glory days.  

This could be a great thing for the bandit meets. Two dealers that I spoke with said that they have not set up at the hotels since the show was moved to Thursday, however they are considering once again setting up with the show moving to Friday.  Maybe the people considering canceling could show up at the bandit meets on Thursday and go to TCA show on Friday and Saturday. That way you still have a three day show. The only downside that I see is that some people might blow the budget on Thursday and have no funds left for Friday which is why they moved the show to Thursday. 

I agree with the move by the ED. I'll just go back to my schedule I always used when it was always Fri--Sat meet. Beings I am about two hours away I'll get to the meet between 8--9 am on Friday  and enjoy the meet. Same as I did for many years. 

The only things I may miss are the dinners and get togethers but on the way home on Friday a few of us stop at the Red Lobster near Lancaster on rt 30 for dinner. Another thing we did before the three day meet, now we will do it again. 

All in All the change is ok with me. 

Dave

MartyE posted:

scott.smith posted:

The move to Fridays years ago killed the bandit meets. I usually only spend only one night and that was Thursday. That didn't change when the days changed. Before I went to the bandit meets on Thursday then to the museum and the Thursday's at Fridays. Friday morning opened at 9:00 and I was ready to go. The biggest problem I had when the meet was set-up this way was I didn't always get to all the halls on Friday. If the change helps the dealers and manufacturers then I am all for it.

Scott Smith

I think you have a typo there Scott.  They added Thursday.

That's a typo.

Scott

Well......I guess in April we can meet Thursday night for dinner.....Friday AM for breakfast and then Friday night for dinner again......different venues, different groups......we adapt!

Peter

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I would still look forward to any social gathering for breakfast and dinner, just may make things a bit weirder for breakfast. Maybe start at 4AM breakfast(joking), I think they're open 24/7.

Not a problem, Dave......I get up every day between 4-4:30 AM......

Peter

Scrapple is both flexible and forgiving.   

Putnam Division posted:

Well......I guess in April we can meet Thursday night for dinner.....Friday AM for breakfast and then Friday night for dinner again......different venues, different groups......we adapt!

Peter

Works for me!!

-Greg

eddie g posted:

It should have been changed to all day Thursday and all day Friday. No one needs Saturday.

I agree. However, the dealers would then start packing-up at noon on Friday. 

Joe Hohmann posted:

eddie g posted:

It should have been changed to all day Thursday and all day Friday. No one needs Saturday.

I agree. However, the dealers would then start packing-up at noon on Friday. 

I think it needs to be what works best for the EDTCA through the results of their polling of the vendors and table holders.  I'd rather have a Friday Saturday York than no York at all.

Is this for real ???   I know I’m a little late reading this but just got the TCA National Headquarters News and the dates shown are April 23-25 2020 

Thx

dorfj2 posted:

Is this for real ???   I know I’m a little late reading this but just got the TCA National Headquarters News and the dates shown are April 23-25 2020 

Thx

Yes it is. They announced it on their Facebook page. They haven't updated the website or publications yet. 

     Since April 2020 will be the first show with 2 days, any idea on how the EDTCA will handle allowing the public in? Thursday was the members only day in this format once the public was allowed in. If the public is allowed in all day on both Friday and Saturday, then what benefit is there in TCA membership aside from the early registration fee ( $15.00 advanced vs $23.00 at the door)?  Also, will the price be the same for April vs October with one less day? 

PA Anthracite posted:

     Since April 2020 will be the first show with 2 days, any idea on how the EDTCA will handle allowing the public in? Thursday was the members only day in this format once the public was allowed in. If the public is allowed in all day on both Friday and Saturday, then what benefit is there in TCA membership aside from the early registration fee ( $15.00 advanced vs $23.00 at the door)?  Also, will the price be the same for April vs October with one less day? 

Stay Tuned, as their Facebook page basically said, for details to follow.

WOW can we just thru October first. 

We will get the REAL info then.

GG1GUYY

Greg Houser posted:

Putnam Division posted:

Well......I guess in April we can meet Thursday night for dinner.....Friday AM for breakfast and then Friday night for dinner again......different venues, different groups......we adapt!

Peter

Works for me!!

-Greg

That sounds good to me as well.

I myself get up early too, usually around 5 during working days, weekends maybe just after 6 or a little later depending on when I went to bed.

I thought l read Sat.-Sun. two day was under consideration?  So much for working stiffs. (didn't/won't impact me, as l had the vacation time, but others?) Sat. hall rental cheap; Sun. not?  I find more of the old stuff l am still looking for, on the net.  With product source problems, dwindling mfrs., aging market, and redundant products, going to York to see "what's new?" has not been effective.  I have spent little the last several Yorks. I keep hoping for a resurrection.

I like the change back to just Friday and Saturday.  I'll probably stay over to Saturday and avoid the Friday evening traffic on the way home which keeps getting worse.  I expect that the TCA Museum and Library in Strasburg will go back to Thursday before York for the open house and manufacturers' presentations. 

Maybe Saturday will be the only day open to the public which might make that day more worthwhile for the dealers and manufacturers.  Anyhow, I'd think the dealers and manufacturers would appreciate the shorter hours and one less night of travel expenses.  Who knows, the April meet may regain some of its lost momentum.  

One of the options, I'm told, was to eliminate the Spring York meet. Glad they are taking one step at a time. Guess I'll stay over for Saturday for the first time in many years.

Jim Waterman

Well, since this was the last topic on York 2020, I'll post here. My friend Phil who has been asking some good train questions is getting more interested in many things, so I dropped him the York line. It started because he was asking about the Legacy users meeting that MartyE heads. See if Phil is going to attend York and join the LU's meeting assuming fall we have one.

irish rifle posted:

I hate to say it, but this may sound the death knell for the April York Meet. Since Saturday is typically a very slow day, I have to wonder how many dealers are going to travel to York for essentially a one-day meet.  I also wonder how many members will be rethinking their plans. Very sad.

Pat

Well York had no problem attracting people back when it was a Friday-Saturday show before!! More people then than now big time! As far as big dealers missing? Lionel was missing as far as manufacturers. Whoopi.

Farmer_Bill posted:

Scrapple is both flexible and forgiving.   

Great for Pothole Fillers!