Around the walls above the door

I looked at this option for a room in my house as well.  Keep in mind that if the layout has to be high enough to go over a door, it will have to be very narrow, or you won't be able to see your trains from below.

I used a typical decorative shelf bracket found at your big box stores. Since you're up in the air, why limit your curves to 054? Go big because you can. You never know what you might want to run up there at some point.

I did a 6" shelf for most of it, but went to 10" for a long passing siding down 2 sides of the room with #8 Ross switches at each end. I made some custom brackets to suspend it from the ceiling where it runs above the bar and into the hallway.

I am intrigued by shelf layouts. I found the brackets in Bob Severin's recently completed shelf layout very attractive and unobtrusive.

 

using a good  1/2" seven ply plywood deck I think he could have used half of the brackets that he did use. Every other stud if they work out evenly on your walls.

 

You don't need a really large triangle in the corners to use 072.

 

Note that he used led rope lights on the top of the shelf against the wall for backlighting. It really helps lose the shadow and make the trains more visible.

Decorative wooden brackets or----steel,enameled "Maxi-brackets"are both available from Lowe's or Home Depot.

Decorative shown in photo below... 

 

I have done two different methods in two different houses.  #2 is my favorite.

1) Shelf brackets.

2) 6-8" baseboard.

 

First house: #1- used ripped plywood and/or pressboard (fairly thick) and generic shelf brackets.  I ripped the plywood to about 12", as I too wanted double track mainline with gargraves track. That worked and operated great, but didn't look very pretty.  Track didn't matter in the end, as you never saw it.

 

House #2 (current layout) - I used 3/4 x 6" pre-painted stock board from Lowes/Home Depot for the "straights" as the "roadbed base".  I took 6-8" tall baseboard molding, white, and screwed and nailed it (from behind) to the edge of the generic board - think now "L" shaped cross section.  Single track is on the horizontal part of the "L", the vertical part is nailed to the wall studs.  Mounted close to the ceiling and painted both the "L" and the wall up to the ceiling in white semi-gloss, so it now looks like pseudo crown-molding.  I personally like this approach and would do it again in a heartbeat.  I used wider board for the curves, to avoid plywood, and o-72 was a must for me.  In two long 17' runs, I added one small 1/2" x 1/2" support that I nailed to the ceiling to remove the deflection/sag in the long run.  I then used a thin 3" strip of lexan, on the outside edge, held on with white thumbtacks, to help avoid any minor derailments and cars coming crashing down 7'.  The thumbtack mounted lexan won't stop a heavy engine, but I took the risk that that wouldn't derail.  I've had 2 derailments in 5 years, all cars, and not one has come down.  If I did it again, I'd probably take the time to route a groove in the base and have the lexan slide in, vs. thumb tacks.

 

I wanted double track, but was concerned with the width of a 12" horizontal "L" leg.  So after about 2 years with single track, I did the same thing with a second track below it.  One is MTH powered and one is Lionel powered, so I don't need to worry about who does what better for what engine.

 

Dave

 

 

 

Two examples of my now 15 year young roof layout.  I started with simple 2x4 cut to accomodate for the shelf bracket way back.  I have some nice ornate cast iron shelf brackets awaiting installation,  time allowing at some point.

 

I went wide radius 0-90" and matched the radius so the train is always right next to the edge and wheels and such can always be seen.    It is still a bit rough,  need to finish the front edge of the entire run and put up the new brackets.

 

Mark

I don't have triangle bases in any of my curves. I cookie cuttered all the curves leaving a space behind the shelf. I didn't put any scenery back there so no need for all the extra wood.

Afternoon everyone, I want to thank all of you that responded to my questions, you all have given me some great ideas and now I just need to get to work.  It probably won't be for another few weeks or so but I'll post some pics as I progress.  Thanks again, your help is really appreciated.

 

Have a great weekend.

 

Never a fan of the manufactured shelf brackets, sufficient support came from well anchored strapping concealed with cove molding.   Half inch plywood form a top that allows some overhang, enough for 2 mainlines.  Corners simply conform to the 072 curves without extra bracing to support the middle.  A 4 foot door gap section has 1" angle iron screwed on top of the base to prevent sagging.  All screw assembly is a must.  Big box prefab upper kitchen cabinets form support over a wider yard area and double as display shelves.  The central control panel slides out for easier access, built with conventional control via a "V" transformer in mind and will soon be reverting back to conventional.  Plans are to remove the yard, reducing the width in that area.

 

 

Bruce

I really like the color of your walls Bruce.  A bit different color tone than I am used to but very nice looking.

 

Mark

Mark, looks like we both belong to the popcorn ceiling club.   I imagine it was just natural if you planned to run UP equipment you'd need wide curves.  I have issues with a scale GG1 that grazes the wall.

 

The room color choice was easy....State Brown.

Bruce

I thought I had posted this yesterday but it doesn't seem to be here, I have another question, how far apart should the brackets be?  I'm thinking about using 1/2" plywood for the sub-roadbed and 1/4" cork and I'm still deciding on the track.  Leaning towards either Ross or Gar-Graves.  Two of the walls will be on outside walls with 16" spacing and the other two will be on inside 24" spacing.  Do I need to put a bracket at each stud?  

 

Thanks again for your answers,

J Motts

At 32" on center [two stud spaces] or even 24", if applicable, you are likely to get some minor deflection with 5 ply  1/2" plywood. Depends more on effects of humidity than weight of components.[I went 32" with 3/4" ply except 16"' for joints and in corners]

However,in my experience with helping o-gaugers with a couple of above the door/window shelf installations, 1/2" deflection at 32" o.c. is so minor it has no effect on running. IF a problem later you can always add additional brackets or a supporting ledger strip along the wall at the back of the shelf.

 

I went every other stud with brackets. 3/4 MDF no issues. I do have a span across a window that's almost 48" with a bracket on each side of the window. There is a little bow there after 10 years but not enough to notice without a 4' level

I used 3/4' fir plywood and 32" on center brackets except for shelf joints.

 

 

 

Thanks Dewey and Doug, those are great answers to my questions.  I like the MDF, but it really eats up saw blades and creates tons of dust too.  Great stuff however, I have a workbench top made out of that stuff and it is really stable too.  Dewey, those brackets you are showing in your picture, are those home made or store bought?  I really like the looks of them.  Would you mind telling me the dimensions on them, I like the flat plate at the top too.  Very nicely done.

 

Thanks Guys, I appreciate it.

Here's mine.  I didn't work on it at all last winter because I had surgery on both hands, but hope to finish it this winter.  I used ready cut and finished shelving from Lowes or Home Depot, I forget which.  I like the brackets underneath, but I hung them off the duct bulkhead on that wall.  When I came to the brick wall, I decided to hang them from the ceiling.  Once I got the knack of that, I wish I had done the same with the others.  I still have to finish the brick wall and put some triangles in to support the track in the corners. 

 

J.Mott

Store bought at Lowe's back in 1992.[7" x 7-1/2" x 1-1/2" thick]. See badly faded sketch below of bracket supporting 11-3/4" wide dual track shelf.

[the bracket with the flat 3/4" x 2-3/4" yellow pine support was extra cantilever for a wider 3 track shelf. The extra support piece was screwed and construction glued to the top of the decorative bracket]

 

The decorative wood brackets had a recessed metal hangar bracket at the top rear to hook over a mounting screw head.It was attached with couple of 3/4" screws which I replaced with 1-1/2". I attached the wood bracket to the studs at the top and bottom.with two 3" galvanized deck screws. 

 

This particular sketch was done for a guy in 1993 who had bought MTH's new Challenger and in a spare room 14x16 wanted a dual track shelf with wide curves. I elevated his rear track for better line of sight viewing from floor level by his 10 year old son. He had a 9' high ceiling. On the sketch you can barely make out a small screw in the front edge of the shelf for attaching a 1/8 x 4" high plexiglas safety barrier. He glued 1/2" blue foam to his shelves. Upper curves are 090 and lower are 079 all four corners.. Gargraves flex track on cork over foam. 

 

Awful poor sketch but hope you can see it.

 

I used brackets that I reduced in size which were copied from porch post brackets. I only used these on one wall. The other walls I used turned posts, copied form porch posts. Since I have an open floor above my covered patio, I used wood/machine screws in the tops of the turned posts nutted and counter sunk in the flooring above, and wood/wood screws in the post bottoms and the track deck.I have a 10' X 16' double track loop, which when not in use, the trains can be parked inside the workshop through a portal. I used O72 on the outer loop, and O 54 on the inner loop.

Don

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mark, Dewey and Rail, thanks for the most helpful hints, tips and tricks. P&D I missed you the first time, thanks for your comments also.  I'm leaning towards a 6 to 8" sub-roadbed but I'm also considering double tracking it at some point in time so I may need to go up in width, do you guys have any suggestions or is that a bad idea?

My shelves are 12 inches deep.  I made them that way to possibly run double track.  It is no problem in the straightaways, but since my project was put on hold for a year, I have not tried double curves.  If nothing else, I can at least display stationary trains behind a single running track.

JEM

The shelves in the dual track sketch I posted above are 11-3/4" which coincidentally enabled four 11-3/4" x 8' shelves yield from a 4 x 8 plywood sheet. That was for the

straight shelving in a 14 x 16 room with corner sections from 3/4"x 4'x4' plywood, less 1/8"saw cut, in each of four corners[requiring two 4x8 sheets--three for the room in total].

Keep in mind his corners had 090 and 079 curves and a 072 curve cut on the front edge. Obviously there was a "mezzazine" type overhang with the corner plywood using those wide curve arcs. The o-gauger had all of his plywood ripped at Lowe's in Johnson City,Tenn. [free] which left only cutting the shelving to fit between the 4x4 corner curve sections. He had a Sabre saw used to cut the 072 front edge curve which did leave considerable waste in the form of 4 odd shapes.

I will post a sketch of his cutting plan if I can find it. He used pine plywood with one side good--good side down, $11 per sheet in '93. 

 

 

 

Hi Mark, hope all is going much better for you now and you'll be back in the swing of things in no time.  I can relate to you not doing anything, I had a different problem and haven't really been doing anything model railroading wise for a number of years now.  I would piddle around but stayed away from anything serious.  Problem solved, now I'm ready to get real serious about my trains, all of them (HO, Sn3, On30 and High Rail).  Unfortunately, the High Rail will have to be around the walls above the door.  The height that the top of the rail will be at 7' give or take a few 16th's.

 

I'm getting ready to start pestering my better half about building a 10X10 layout in the old den, I will make all of the finish siding to be stained so it won't be an eyesore.  Hoping she will go for it but that remains to be seen but for now the around the walls in my work room/office will have to suffice.

JEM,

Thank you!  Yes, the problem that caused my to put the project on hold has been solved.  I ad a occurrence of carpal tunnel syndrome in both hands 20 years after my first surgeries.  I had both hand done again last winter, and am pretty close to being rehabilitated.  Now if I could find a cure for that pesky arthritis, I would like it better.    I plan to finish the around the walls this winter.  It is in the back half of our family room.  It was actually my wife's idea, since I had no room for a layout once we downsized.  We do have a daughter who will be moving out sooner or later, and then I will have a room just for a layout.

HI Dewey, that sketch is cool, I like that idea I think I'm going to give it a shot.  It's great that 4 pieces comet of a 4X8 sheet of ply.  I'm putting different ideas together and will put them out before you guys to see what you all think.

 

Mark, looking forward to see your finished project.  Didn't know that you could have a reoccurence of Carpel Tunnel, haven't had that problem yet as I try not to stay on the computer for long periods of time.  I'm going to have to cut my time back even more.

 

Thanks to everyone for their help, suggestions, pictures and tips.  They are very much appreciated and have really helped.

 

Have a great weekend everyone.

 

I just measured my shelves, they are 9" wide. I used 3/4" oak, with walnut edging. I had this laying around in the shop. I also wanted to use solid wood outside to avoid de-lamination. If I would have had O66 curves, I would have used those for the inner loop, but I already had the O54. I did add a short straight section. Before securing the track, I took my longest cars and put them on the curves side by side to make sure they didn't hit while passing. Since I don't have a Big Boy, and probably won't, I don't have to worry about engines hitting. If I did have an articulated engine, I would only run on one loop. 

If I had enough ceiling height, I would have raised the back loop higher for better viewing. Building codes limited the height I could build, and since the attic space above the shop and patio are for storage, I couldn't make my ceiling any higher. The door height was also a factor as well. To cross the opening, I made a steel open deck girder bridge. The span with door molding is about 40", and the steel bridge is more then strong enough. The open end of the patio adjacent to the pond is spanned with two wood truss bridges, and an open deck under truss bridge between the two. These are made of oak, fastened with Tite-Bond exterior wood glue, and brad nails. 

Years ago, I made several cork boards for one of the elementary schools in our district, and I saved all the cut-offs. They were perfect for roadbed. 

All joints are soldered, and I put power drops on the four corners. I also alternated the ground , so that both outside rails are grounded. 

I'll be running some trains tomorrow, as a friend who has had some major setbacks from hip surgery is coming over with her husband, daughter and father. This will be only the second time this summer that trains have run in over three years. It's not much fun if there's no one to share with.

Don

The reoccurrence of carpal tunnel was that too much scar tissue built up from the first surgeries and pinched off the nerves in the carpal tunnel in a similar way that the carpal tendon does before any surgery with some people.  In an attempt to prevent his happening again, the surgeon told me he pulled some tissue inside the hand from one side, over the nerves, then attached it on the other side.  When I had it the first time, I had hardly used the computer at all.  Like a lot of things, some people are more prone to get it than others.

 

Thanks, when I get the project going again, I will post some photos.

Mine evolved from shelves for large scale die-cast VW vehicles to a layout.

Generic white laminated shelving 12" deep on three walls 8" on the other.

A shared main line on the 8", a graded/elevated line along the walls, lower level has the ties hanging over the shelf edge by 1/16" for better viewing, passing siding, depot stub, yard stub.

 Four dives from derails. No casualties.

All hit and bounced off things on the way down, all made it!

....Well, my bashed "rocket loco" needed to have some hot glue re-done, but nothing major. 

 

 

 

 Don't measure off the ceiling, rooms are seldom perfect squares, things can vary a bunch. Use a level! If you can borrow one for a night, use a 360° laser level and mark it all out quickly.

That sounds pretty cool, glad to hear that your derails didn't cause catastrophic damage to any of your equipment.  Not sure if I'll have any turnouts on my little venture or not yet.

Safety Barrier:

For my twin shelf 14x32, 5 track operation I had Lowe's to cut 4"x 96" strips of 1/8" plexiglas out of a 4x8 sheet. They cut it into strips on their 4x8 panel glass cutter for a minor fee. I installed the strips as a safety barrier on both shelves [one 7'6" above floor and on the other 3 track shelf at 9' above floor level[18'ceiling].

 

The plexiglas makes photographs fuzzy because of the glare from lighting but it is worthwhile for protecting units..See it just to the left of the plate truss bridge railing.

 

 

 

 Funny enough, none happened near the turnouts. Straights only Climbing to the right side.

  Just a Berk Jr climed to the left. I came out of the bridge, and she caught, climbed and rolled, and got bucked, up, from behind. Then spearing forward, it just missed getting stuck mid air bridging a gap reaching from the bridge, to the switch housing for the overhanging left turnout/abutment ahead. It rolled more, fell, flipped off the tender by its drawbar, and somersaulted upside down, two feet, to a cleared bookshelves top and runs fine, looks fine .

 

Dewey, I've seen that shot before, my focus was the bridges.

 So I never realized exactly what was around them.

I thought it was a bridge to a waist high dresser of some kind .....18' huh? Nice.

Taller than everything but my living room.....is long.

(I cant reach that high anymore anyhow)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I built a shelf train that went through 2 rooms. Some areas did not have a wall to attach to, so I used anchor supports with rods. Works great. The entire train weighs almost 25 lbs. So It took alot of engineering, but works great. Here is a video I made when it was first completed.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6qVFukNtDkI

Cary,

That looks great.  It looks like you staggered the anchor supports one on the left, then one on the right.  My shelf being 12" wide, I started putting them down the middle.  I have enough room for the two tracks on the straightaway.  The shelves will be supported on each end by the shelves on the perpendicular walls supported by wall brackets.  Yes, I know one anchor is cockeyed.  Kind of like it's builder.  That was when I gave up on the project until I had my hands surgeries.  It was getting too tough to build.

 

 

I just recently took this down. Im in the middle of putting it in my sons room. But Im dragging my feet. I have enough track and wood to run it through the wall and around my daughters room, but Im getting resistance from the wife.
  But I have been trying to figure out one thing. If it runs around one room, and I have it go to a Y switch, then run a single track to another Y switch, then go around the other room. Will Y switches throw themselves automatically so I dont have to wire them ? Also, since Im running Lionel Legacy, and a DMC system on the tracks, the connections on the track power shouldnt make a difference right ?

Rock,

The attachments didn't show, but if the switches\wyes are non-derailing, they will switch on their own and vary the route.

What I used for my shelf train was a pretty basic set up. I took 1x6 wood for the straights. And took 2 pieces of 1x6 and cut a mortisse groove then glued then along side each other. Then I hung the shelfs with L brackets on top, but used a router to sink the brackets flush. Then cut the corners to allow the track to curve. I connected each board together with L brackets I smashed straight and put flush with a router. The filled each gap with wood putty and smoothed it out. Then end result is a clean shelf all the way around with no visible brackets or breaks in the wood.

Rock, I'm assuming that you are anchoring the rods into the ceiling joists, is that correct?  I like your idea and they way you did the shelf units.  I found the idea of mortising the brackets into the shelf a unique idea, you could always go back and paint the wall part of the bracket with the same color paint then it would blend in.

 

Very nice ideas, sorry to see you tear it down.  What radius curves were you using?

 

I had to use 56 curves since the engine needs it.
The ceiling anchors are the kind that pop through the drywall and as you screw.in the rod it pulls it tight. Just like a toggle bolt but better. I screwed a 1 inch rod into the anchor, with a jamnut to lock in place. The used a male to male coupling. Took the long rods and screwed into the coupling and used a nut to lock it it. Then as the rod.went through the board. I used a washer and nut on both.sides to lock it in place.
  If I can figure out how to attach pics on here. Ill show you what I did.

Rock, I'd definitely like to see your pictures, can anybody give him some pointers on how to upload pics to a topic posting.  I haven't done it yet so I'm not sure how to do it.  Please include a picture of the anchor you mentioned, I'm having a hard time placing it.  I thought maybe you had used one of the double thread type screws, the kind that has wood threads on one end and then 1/4-20 type threads on the other end.  It's the kind that come with those hooks they use for hanging plants and stuff outside or your can screw it into the ceiling joists too.  Looking forward to seeing your pics.