Backgrounds & Backdrops

I use rubber cement, the original vapors-can-make-you-high type, not the modern super-safe, politically correct gel (which doesn't work nearly as well for me). 

I paint the entire back of the backdrops (as I remember they are just thick paper) and two inch strips only up and down about every 12-18 inches on the masonite or foamboard I used.  As always the secret to success it to let it really dry a while - 'til very matt finish to look at. 

I then attach one end square of the backdrop and roll it out to the board, taking care to avoid crinkles, etc.  Works well.  I think low resolution is more than enough.  I've seen some high resolution that are interesting but frankly in a backdrop a bit of "fuzziness" is not a bad thing necessarily.

Wow - that's a lot of rubber cement - the backgrounds I'm thinking of are 42" X 12 ' - I'll be "high" for quite some time!!!  Here are my questions Lee:

1.  Where would I buy large amounts (gallons I suppose) of rubber cement?

2.  Did you use a paint roller to spread the cement out?

3.  How much of a "working time" do you have using the cement before it dries?

thanx - Paul

I buy it in, I think, 1 quart cans at Lowes or Home Depot.  It doesn't take that much, although I had to cut mine to about 28" high in places.  I also mounted them on four to six foot sections of backing: hard for mee to mount bigger sections than that.

I use a small disposeable 2 inch cloth roller like made for touching up walls  (I was worried the rubber cement solvent would eat the little foam rollers - don't know if it will, never tried), yes, and a cheap brush.  I try to roll it one smooth and thin and I think one quart did about 28" high by at least twenty feet. 

I do it in my garage with the the door open to the outside - I think the fumes could make a person high in a enclosed space when you roll that much on, that fast.

Edit: BTW - I use Velcro to attach them - glue to wall, glue to back of board.  works nicely and I can remove if ever want.

I like most hobbyists an cost conceous, and though about doing a background roll or (several) but  opted for doing some painting, using simple techniques

(you may well want to have something to practice on before you actually paint the walls)

On a clean(ish) wall I used a blue sky wall paint(latex) and a much lighter blue with a little gray ( dont remember the exact colors).

The Ceiling is low, and was already painted a darker blue.

Snap put a light chalk line where you want your horizon to be.

Working in ~3 foot sections (and 2 brushes/paint cans)

First paint on your darker sky color

 While the Sky is still wet take your lighter color and paint (from bottom up) horizontal strokes.

Where the blues meets, blend them allowing variations in color mixes to transition from one color to the other (think about how looking out at the horizon looks where the blue sky above fades to white/gray/lt blue. It does Not need to be perfectly and evenly blended.. some places higher others lower.  Use long wide even strokes when painting  ....

Adding some clouds.

First off go outside on a day that is similar to how you want your clouds to look, and observer that the clouds overhead are large and singularly defined... as you look towards the horizon they get smaller and smaller till they blend into one

Application is pretty simple, use some of your light blue and white (do not mix super thoroughly, and have some 'gradient' where the bluish will be the bottom of the cloud and the white towards the top.  Use a paper plate )

Using a Sea sponge dab into your paint where the top of the sponge is white, bottom blueish.

Apply in a dabbing and turning motion to where you want the clouds to go. Rotate dab rotate dab.... sea sponges can be easily cut if you need narrower shapes as you get closer to your horizon.

Next trace in the Mountains, foreground ones first, then background filler.

Using some acrylic latex paints (greens (2 a darker and lighter) and a medium brown) paint in the background mountains them in with a mixture of brown and green (you want these to be rather dark.

Taking a can of grey spraypaint LIGHTLY spray over these background mountains to give a light haze (this adds depth)

If you want you can add multiple layers of background mountains each layer slightly larger than the last, and then hazing over them ... (I only did one)

Last step the forground mountains:

Here you want your light and dark greens (maybe a touch of brown if its too light)

Squeeze out 2 generous lines of each the light and dark greens next to one and other on your palate(paper plate).

You will want a normal pantprushes for this.  I used a 3" and a 1-12 inch brush.

Load the brush up with paint getting the light green towards one side of the brush and the dark green on the other.... its ok if they mis a little on the pallette ....

Now the Light side is where the sun is coming from and the dark is the shady side.

Apply the paint by dabbing the brush vertically (paying attention to light and dark sides of the brush) .

Varying the brushes and brush pressure fill in your foreground mountains ... (all to taste)

-Pete Flaherty

I did something similar but was not as talented or something because I really did not like the result.  I'm slowly replacing it with a printed backdrop and then "shall" stuff in front of it: this includes building fronts but also "hill fronts.  Where I have perhaps up to an inch I make a thin hill or mountain or rock outcrop and cover it with greenery, a few trees and stick it aginast the background.  That helps a lot. 

Just saying, its an option

Heres a closer look at the finished (for now) painting (still need a little sky touchup)

Hey Pete - you did a great job on your background scenery - I wish I had the artistic talent needed to do something like that.  I think I'm going to rely on "store bought" backgrounds unless you would like to stop over my house with a couple of cans of paint!!!

Once again - fantastic job!

PS: would love to see the design of your layout!

Probably will get yelled at for this (gor not putting on the layout section) but here's the general plan the blue is above the green 'city' level' a few simplifications have meen made on the fly, just haven't updated the dwgs yet ....

Min Curves in green o36 the larger outer loop is 048

orange/blue 060

Beautiful, Pete!  Nice job in creating a great configuration -

I'd like to know what track software you used - e mail me if you have time -

thanx for sharing

Paul

Pete, great job.

Looks like on Sunday morning, you have been watching Bob Ross!

"You gotta have the dark to show the light" or something like that.

The guy is amazing.

Greg

Ya a couple of my kids watched that a lot !  I guess some of it stuck )

as for the software I used AnyRail, not free, but pretty reasonable, and very responsive (suports just about any scale and manufacturers track)

I now a lot of people are using rrt railriad track, but I preferred the ease and simplicity, learning curve is pretty quick

-Pete

Thanx, Pete - I'll look into the software - 

Paul

3m '77' adhesive works well (there is another that is higher tack I think its 90) so you can make it a giant post-it
Similar to using rubber cement, only spray on and

Paul,

Good choice, I went through the same process   I really like the backdrops, a little hard to order, but work the outcome.

https://ogrforum.com/d...5514336631104/page/2

Here is a link to the backdrop I installed.  If you scroll halfway down the page you can see the mounting.  I used double back carpet tape on mine.

Good luck.

The 3M products are good and they avoid the need for a roller or brush and are faster.  I have always been a bit wary of them because of overspray concerns as well ans worries that semi-dried particles get in the air and land on nearby stuff (I do this in my garage) eor could be dangerous fumes for me, even in an opn place like a garage with the door open.   I'm probably being too careful here . .

yup overspray etc is a concern, the results are good though.
I tend to spray things outside/garage, taking precautions to account for the overspray.  Fortunately the tack time is pretty long, so you can spray your pieces, wait till it starts to setup, then move it to where you are applying it ....
If the pieces are large, it can be challenging (esp with 90) cause they can stick together .. (wax paper helps, but it too can become an issue if used when too tacky)

I did 70 feet of backdropswith rubber cement  Elmers sells it in gallons  Easy to get off if you dont like it too.

Magnificent!  I'm going with the rubber cement process!

Paul

Rich - did you have any problems with the backdrop moving or falling using the double backed tape?

This seems like the easiest way to go if there were no problems with securing it to the walls.

Paul

I also used rubber cement to attach a 30 foot BW background. I ordered Elmers cement in quart cans from Staples and received free shipping. As long as you only apply it to one surface it can be stipped off if needed.  The fumes, as has been said, are very strong and the area where you use it should be well ventilated and away from source of flame.  Extra cement was passed on to the local cub scouts for projects. 

Jim

My backdrop feels like vinyl. It's 36 feet long. I hung it to test just using "stick tac" like the teachers use. That was over a year ago and i haven't changed it, looks fine. 

Hey Jeff - did you get your backdrop from BackdropWarehouse.com???  That's amazing that sticky tack held that up - I would think that the backdrop itself is quite heavy being vinyl-like.

thanx for the suggestion - 

Paul

It has held up well.  I do have two rows of tape along the top, and let the bottom drape   I used smaller double backed tape at the seams full length.  The type that come on roles like clear scotch tape for wrapping presents.  

I got the approach from Patrick H and it worked well.  Up for a few years now.

We talked to Rich and Patrick and went with the 2" carpet tape as well. Super tacky, works well. We used a single strip across the top and a 1" strip on the sides.

We know many people have used the rubber cement but after using the tape and hanging these 4 pieces, we wouldn't even want to attempt using rubber cement. Just our opinion.

They are from Backdrop Wharehouse, paper, not vinyl but still very heavy. The tape holds just fine. When you first stick them, do it real lightly, because once you press it down hard.....it's NOT coming back off w/o tearing it off.

You will need at least 1 pair of helping hands, 2 pair is even better.  

Since I'm ordering mine from Backdrop Warehouse (paper instead of vinyl) I think the double sided tape is the way to go - thanx for your advice.  You obviously did a great job.  It looks like they are mounted on masonite.  I think I'm going to mount the backdrops on 4'x8' sheets of masonite then secure the masonite to the sheetrock with screws.  This will make the masonite more "portable" and I won't be damaging the sheetrock if I ever change things around.

I find their website is very difficult to understand as to how to order backgrounds.  I'm going to call them instead and just tell them what I need.

thanx again