Best "Brick" for DCS

You can't go wrong with Z-1000s.  I power a 6x11 loop with a smaller inside loop with 5 track powered switches and can run 3 engines/trains at a time no problem.  Two Z-1000s would be more than enough for your two loops.  The circuit breakers trip instantly too.  Check Barry's book on best way to power your loops. I only use one lock on for the whole thing since it's a carpet central and never had an issue.  

Lionel's 180 watt power bricks are also excellent.  That is what I use on my layout for DCS, TMCC, and Legacy.

Art

My preference is the Lionel Powerhouse 180. They have excellent breakers and provide maximum power for about $90 street price, possibly less. Using blocks or separate TIU outputs per loop (isolate loops) would be my preference for track connections. I also have a Z-1000, but very much prefer the PH-180. Will probably use the Z-1000 for accessory power and lighting etc. 

As pennsydave suggested, wiring for DCS per Barry's book would be the best way to go.

ditto on the Powerhouse 180.

If you run more than MTH, such as Atlas, Lionel, Weaver, 3rd Rail, WBB, with TMCC or ERR components they'll tell you NOT to use anything higher than 18vac input.  The 180 will give you 18vac.  I was using a Z750 brick until I got my 3rd Rail E7, then switched up to the PH180.

The Powerhouse 180 is the bet brick to use.  It gives you the most bang for the buck.  180 watts as compared to 100 watts from the Z1000.  Gives you some room for expansion

I use the Z1000 bricks with the controller in the loop on my fixed channels. I dial down the input voltage to lower the brightness of the passenger and caboose lights. I also use the control to run my conventional engines on the two fixed voltage loops. On the two variable loops I use only the bricks, there seem to be an interaction between the non sine wave output of the Z1000 control and the signal put out by the variable channel of the DCS system.

The problem with the Z1000 is that a number of people have reported blowing the 20A TIU fuses before the breaker in the Z1000 trips.  That has never happened to me, or anyone I know using the Lionel PH180 brick, that breaker is very fast.  The Z1000 has a thermal breaker and it is not nearly as fast as the PH180 breaker.

Paul;

You are correct, just remember Bricks are transformers without variable output.

Transformers vary the output thru chopping the AC Waveform.

The Z-4000 does so but smooths it back out very well.

I have Z-1000's on my system but I must concur the Lionel 180 brick is superior, At least in watts and perhaps watts per dollar.

Both have fast breakers and sine wave output.

As Kevin noted putting the controller in circuit will aggravate the variable channels.

Putting two chopper circuits on any power wave will result in nasty waveforms.

Since the Z controller chops the wave and the TIU Variable control also chops it, that results in chaotic power control.

You can use most any transformer you have, just leave it at max output as long as the volts are not too high for your equipment as noted by Bob.

Sine wave output from older ones can be reduced with no bad side effect.

Older ones should have a fast acting fuse or circuit breaker added between them and the TIU.

Gentlemen,

   I know I am going to rock the boat by saying this,  I like the Z4K and my old ZW's

no way do I want power that I can not vary, also the Z4k does so much more with the DCS than any brick.  

PCRR/Dave 

Dave - The only reason that I can think of why anyone needs variable power is you want to run conventional.  If you don't, it's a pain to have to turn on the power packs and then adjust all the handles for maximum power every time you power up.

Art

Correct Dave, but only if you need your transformer to do "more".

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Finder/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductNumber=6-22983&expandBranch=0&Keywords=&CategoryID=40&RailLineID=&CatalogId=

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Finder/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductNumber=6-34120&expandBranch=0&Keywords=&CategoryID=40&RailLineID=&CatalogId=

Take a look at the Lionel website links above.

I agree with the many above 180 Watt brick you can use to power all 4 of your channels on DCS TIU and use the Variable channels for any conventional equipment.

Add more bricks as needed. Best $ per watt of anything on the market.

But I highly recommend the Lionel Direct lockon.

It is an excellent Circuit breaker that stops power surges and cuts power right away in a derail/short saves your system and prevents destroying your electronic boards on your engines.

I have a board with bricks mounted and then power to lockon then to TIU works great.

Can take it for shows etc. as well! See photos below.

 For added safety, the Direct Lockon
provides over-current protection and an automatic reset.

I haven't bought them yet, but I will be using two Z-1000s.  One will be plugged into the variable channel and one into the fixed.  The reason for this is I want to be able to run my PS2 loco and conventional on my loops.  Of course I wouldnt know this without help from some fellow, very helpful forum members.

The Lionel TMCC Direct Lockon kills the DCS signal, so you do NOT want it with DCS!  I've tried them on two different DCS layouts, and they nuke the DCS signal.

Since you have it before the TIU, it doesn't affect it.  However, the PH180 brick has an excellent electronic circuit breaker, so there's not any point in adding the Direct Lockon.  BTW, the Direct Lockon does NOT have a TVS, the other form of protection I'd recommend, however the output of the TIU does have a TVS for each channel.

As a devotee of Tim Allen, I'd recommend the Lionel brick over the MTH brick because it has MORE POWER (180VA vs. 100VA) which gives you the full 10 amps. Unfortunately, the Lionel bricks seem to be getting hard to come by for some reason. The alternative is to build your own using step-down transformers if you can get 10-amp fast-trip circuit breakers.

I doubt you'll match the PH180 breakers, they're electronic sensing and use a relay to interrupt power within a couple of milli-seconds.  Only a pure electronic solution would be faster, and no mechanical breaker is going to match the performance.

Gentlemen,

    Each to his own, the way I have my older ZW & KW transformers set up all I need to do is leave the handles set to what ever power I need and use the remote control to turn them on/off, plus I use one of them to power all my switches.  The Z4K levers must be bottomed out each time however for voltage activation.   It's not that the bricks are bad, they are just not everything I need, it's why they are cheaper, they deliver the same voltage all the time.  I run both DCS and my old Tin Plate Conventionals all the time and want the different control options.

PCRR/Dave

Dave, as long as you provide some modern circuit protection on the outputs of the PW transformers, there's nothing wrong with what you're doing, and you already have the transformers.

I use the Lionel 135 and 180 bricks with a TIU running Legacy, DCS, and TMCC.  I use the TIU variable channel to run the few conventional engines I have.  Works great.  The circuit breakers in the brick almost always trip before the fuses in the TIU. 

These active electronic breakers have been mentioned in the past as fast and effective. 

PSX-AC - Intelligent Circuit Breaker for AC 2 and 3 Rail  Does anyone have experience with these in the DCS environment.  If I need more power some day I was thinking of using a bare toroidal transformer with the PSX-AC for protection.

Dan

I don't know about the PSX breakers after the TIU, but I can't imagine them affecting things if you put them between the TIU and the transformer.  FWIW, I got rid of my PH135 transformers as I was not impressed with the breaker performance with those.  I have nothing but the 180 bricks now.  Of course, I have other variable transformers, but the bricks are what is connected to my TIU.

Got some of these a while back, asked about them here and was directed to this thread, there is a demo of them in use, don't remember if he was using DCS?

PSX-AC Demo Thread

Anyway, we moved, got them after the move, and layout is not back up yet. But I have tested them on the bench and they trip very fast. I am using a PH-180 and have yet to trip the PH breaker, the PSX-AC has always tripped first so far. I added the manual reset buttons and got the recommended Sonalert alarms from Digi-Key. The alarm was a new part number, the old one was discontinued. New part number is in the above thread I think.

These are all pros so far. The only con is, they are pretty pricey! However, when you consider the cost of electronic repair on a command control engine, it's a lot less than even 1 repair. 

Just looked at your link and I got mine from Tony's trains, they were a little less there than your link. They also had the terminal blocks (an add-on kit) for the PSX, to add terminals to connect the remote reset, alarm & power LEDs, etc.

I use the Lionel 180 Power Bricks. I love them and the extra power they offer. I have never had an issue with them not protecting the system with their very good breakers too.

I'm in agreement with the Lionel Powerhouse 180 being an excellent choice at a reasonable price.

Ive tried a few different power supplies, not all, but quite a few. I also like the quickness  of the breakers. 

I don't own any Lionel powerhouses and I'm curious how you connect them to the TIU. the z-1000 is easy to connect to the TIU via a barrel jack adapter. How hard is it to connect a 180 powerhouse to the TIU?

The quick and dirty is to cut the wire. However, Lionel makes a molex type connector to go from plastic end to bare wire.

The 1000 brick needs an adaptor as well.

Check out the auction site of choice.... they sell a cable that will connect the 180 to the TIU.

I roll my own Molex to dual-banana plug for my PH180's to connect to the TIU.

another vote for the Lionel 180 watt bricks. 2 different layouts, 3 TIU's, and 5 180 watt bricks.

You can get them from here C.T. McCormick - PH-TIU or I think Lionel also makes something. I ordered the Lionel a long time ago and it never came in, so ended up getting the PH-TIU from C.T. McCormick.

I believe there was a post by Gunrunnerjohn listing the parts & suppliers he used to make them. Might try a search if you want to make them, probably a lot cheaper. Ebay may be cheaper also, I didn't know they had them there until reading this thread.

I didn't like the idea of cutting off the PH-180 plug & using bare wires, although if you phased it properly there would probably be nothing wrong with that...until you went to sell it.