Originally Posted by F&G RY:
I would be the one who stated 1 in a 1000 items. jsfro states 1 in 20. There was a thread on this and everyone piled on until myself and Gary Seven stated how many pieces we own with our defect rate.
It does not take long here to discover who has an axe to grind with MTH and Mike Wolf personally. It had been about 4 guys.
In reading this forum one can clearly see how messed up originals are. The defect rate on these is 100%. Nary a thread goes by without talk of redoing the motor broken this broken that. Zinc pest on and on. Then the unfortunate guy who buys an original only to find inferior touchups and repo parts. Funny how these sellors state all sales final. One sellor had the nerve to answer a complaint about a misrepresented item with "well thats E-Bay".
If MTH ever stops making tinplate it will be from a lack of market and not because of an inferior product. In the modern tinplate era they are the most successful because they build the best product.
OK, lets first state that the above post is correct, 1 in 20 is 5%. Like I said, I used nothing scientific but an aggregate of forum posts and old history, but it's no less scientific than 1 out of 1000, is it? Like I said, tally up your defective purchases, then tally up your total. Divide the first number by the second and multiply by 100, and you'll see what percentage of your items are defective. I have only my Lionel Red Comet, which is fine.
Of the four modern tinplate purchases I have made, SG Lionel Hiawatha, two MTH/LTI O gauge Hiawathas, and one Lionel red comet, two had paint issues. Guess which two. The LTI/MTH Hiawathas. One was reasonably acceptable, the other was sent back and they replaced the engine. So, I'm at 50%. If you count MTH alone, that's 100%.
As for original prewar versus modern items, you might as well be comparing a fish to a vase. They are completely different and need approached in a completely different manner.
When you buy originals today, you pay for originality, condition and rarity. Lower condition, lower price, higher degree of rarity, higher price, touchup and repair, lower price. You have to remember what you're looking at when you view a train that is approaching 100 years old. How many 85 year old anythings don't have some wear or in need of repair.
Remember, ALL the old ones were made as toys, not adult collectible/toys, and as a result, anything bought today is inherently USED and will ALL have defects when placed on the same scale as something new.
Are you really saying that something 85 years old is expected to be as defect free as something made this year? Come on, that's just ridiculous. And if you are, then stand in line and thank M. Wolf for making repro items, because you'd be sorely dissatisfied with originals. There is not an original prewar buyer out there that expects defect free items or that the item will run like new without servicing it. That, again, is part of the process of collecting originals.
You cannot expect to find uniformity in original items like you should be able to in a brand new item because they are all old and used. As for the zinc rot you mentioned, yes, it is a well known fact that these old trains (lets not forget the recent thread on MTH stuff with it as well) can fall victim to it. Remember my comment on originality and price. You can find examples without zinc rot, say to the wheels, but, it will cost you more money than one that needs reproduction wheels, etc. You have to buy with your eyes open. You need to find it in an acceptable condition, and you need to know what you're looking at. There are no two ways around that. You have to educate yourself.
If someone buys a misrepresented piece, well, that's not the train's fault. Either the buyer doesn't understand the market, the seller doesn't understand his item, or the seller knowingly is passing off a bad item, which is not tolerated well by others. But remember, someone will want to purchase a "bad" item, if the price is right. To that guy, it's not so bad.
As a casual seller of prewar items, I offer 100% refund on anything I should happen to sell, and do not play around with anyone's dissatisfaction, you don't like it, you don't have to keep it. The market is too small, and it doesn't take long to either establish yourself as some to be trusted or not.
Look, what I am trying to say is that these repro items are new, and should be just about perfect, out of the box. Almost everything we buy is perfect out of the box. If not, we don't settle for it. The forum threads and past history tell me that for over 25 years, they still haven't figured out their paint issues. People don't like it but are willing to accept it. I don't get the acceptance part, as you pay through the nose for this stuff. And I don't understand how someone will in one paragraph post how disappointed they are about the paint flaws in their long awaited purchase, and then, a few paragraphs down, say Thank you, Thank you, Thank you to Mike Wolf. That just doesn't make any sense.
And, I'm not saying M. Wolf is a bad guy, and acknowledge that he's done more for tinplate in the recent past than anyone else. But, he is a business man. He'll make the changes consumers would like when he has to. Right now, he apparently doesn't have to.