Books on Command Control systems and walk-around control?

We don't have a book, but how about a couple of instructional videos?

The MTH DCS System
$14.95 on DVD

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The Lionel TMCC System
$14.95 on DVD

Thanks, though at this time I much prefer to read stuff than watch stuff on TV.

Yes - there are ways to control conventional loco's and their operation via command control w/o being tethered to a transformer by using various components depending on whether you opt to go with Legacy or DCS (or both - they play nice together).

Both Lionel and MTH have manuals and brochures available on their websites that describe what command control is and how it works that you might want to download and read through. There is also the DCS Companion 3rd Edition which can be purchased.

Ooops: Drafted this before I saw the DVD availability on the Forum.

I control conventional and command stuff exclusively using the wireless remotes for the two major command systems available for O-scale 3-rail, TMCC/Legacy and MTH DCS.

Lionel Legacy remote, Lionel CAB1L remote, and MTH DCS remote.

Here is a link to the Owner's Manual for the Lionel Legacy control system: https://www.lionelsupport.com/...0LEGACYv16Manual.pdf

Thank you all for your help!

OGR being a discussion forum, I'm curious as to how it came to pass that you had an HO layout with both DCC and non-DCC engines...in other words command-control and conventional to use O-gauge lingo.  As you know, in HO a typical engine could be purchased with or without DCC command control capability...and the conversion was trivial: just buy the DCC decoder and plug it in to the DCC socket and bingo you have command control.

In O-gauge, it's almost a mirror-image.  That is, the dominant engine manufacturers Lionel and MTH provide engines with command-control installed.  For the most part, you do not have the option of buying an engine for conventional-only operation (presumably saving lots of coin).  And upgrading from an older conventional-only engine to command is nowhere near as simple as upgrading an HO engine with the DCC socket.

I guess my "question" boils down to whether you really want/need command control operation in your O-gauge layout...or whether what you're really after is walk-around control.  You can, for a lot less $, get wireless operation of conventional O-gauge engines...as opposed to ponying up the cash for an O-gauge command control system that just happens to support conventional operation...almost as an after-thought!  It's difficult to see from the mix of OGR threads but there are still a boat-load of O-gauge operators who use conventional control only and nevertheless have amazing layouts with lots of action, play-value, etc.

RUNNING DC & DCC on the same layout:

It is extremely simple really. There are at least three ways to run both DC and DCC on my layout:

1.) It isn't a large layout, so when I want to run DCC I remove the DC engines and flip a toggle switch so that my DCC system controls the layout. When I want to run DC engines, I flip the toggle switch the other way and remove the DCC engines.

2.) Now, for some DCC decoders that are "dual mode" and will run on DC and DCC that isn't even necessary, as you could operate both on a DCC system, but I play it safe and pick one or the other. I have some engines with both, but I choose to run them solely on DCC so I use method #1 above.

I have about 20 engines and generally only keep DCC ones on my layout. But, I have a couple that are DC that when the mood strikes to run them I don't mind taking the time to remove all the other engines.

3.) A third method is to divide the layout into electrical blocks, and have DCC control some and DC control others. As long as you don't have an engine bridge both blocks like at track crossovers (which could damage the electronics) or accidently flip the wrong toggle switch at the wrong time (which would stall the engine) you are fine. At one time I did have some layout sections controlled by toggles so I could have done this, but I instead just used them as pure on/off sections.

I hope this helps.
Ben

I am at the beginning stages of collecting I scale trains for my future layout (though I have some already). But I am doodling around with track plans and such now. Being new to O gauge (three rail), I wasn't aware that you could run conventionally controlled engines with a wireless system which I will definitely want on my layout as it might not be possible to operate it all from one area.

That being said, understanding how various command control systems work and interact is very important as my future layout will feature SCALE SIZE engines and cars, and it appears many of the ones made by MTH are command control only. So, I am sure I will need to incorporate that in somehow.

Thanks.

@BenLMaggi posted:

That being said, understanding how various command control systems work and interact is very important as my future layout will feature SCALE SIZE engines and cars, and it appears many of the ones made by MTH are command control only. So, I am sure I will need to incorporate that in somehow.

Actually, all of the command control MTH locomotives will also run in conventional mode, but the question is, why would you want to?

In addition, all the Lionel command stuff with the exception of the cheap starter set LionChief will also run in conventional mode.  Lionel Legacy, TMCC, LionChief Plus, and LionChief Plus 2.0 all have conventional or command operation.

There are a fairly large number of available electronic control systems for all gauges of model trains. Walk-around control is a universal feature and includes hand-held controllers and both iOs and Android based smart devices. The most significant technical difference is track based signal vs wireless.  Among the most prominent and factory installed 3 rail systems are Lionel's TMCC/Legacy, Lionel's LionChief  and MTH's MTS. HO has a similar list. Technical information on all of these systems (factory and after-market) is available on-line from the individual companies web-sites and is fairly comprehensive.

IMHO, since the Original Poster is already familiar with using the non-proprietary, world standard, DCC system -- he might consider just CONTINUING with DCC.

IMHO, most people on this forum seem to be in the habit of "drinking the proprietary O-gauge Kool Aid", but IMHO you can operate command-controlled O gauge trains WITHOUT being forced to use a proprietary system..

• As you probably are aware, DCC is the NON-proprietary NMRA world standard -- used by just about  *A-L-L*  N ga., HO ga., S ga., and Largescale manufacturers.

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In the O-gauge world:

• MTH: All of the made-since-2011 MTH Protosound 3 locos can run on DCC.
• LIONEL: Many newer Lionel S gauge locos can run on either Legacy or DCC.
• .     Disappointingly, Lionel chooses NOT to give their O gauge locos this capability.

~~~~~
Automatic Control

• If you ever desire to do any AUTOMATIC CONTROL, a $59 simple-to-program 'plug-in' device called an 'NCE DCC Mini-Panel' -- allows simple automatic control of *A-N-Y* gauge locos that will run on DCC.
• The proprietary systems LACK  this capability.

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• For what it's worth, I have created a Youtube Playlist #20 -- showing using the NCE DCC Mini-Panel' to automatically control MTH Proto 3 locos operating on a loop.

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• A similar Youtube Playlist #19 shows automatic DCC control of MTH Proto 3 locos operating point-to-point.

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@James Ingram posted:

IMHO, since the Original Poster is already familiar with using the non-proprietary world standard DCC system, he might consider just CONTINUING with DCC.

The fact remains that a majority of command-equipped 3-rail O-gauge does NOT use DCC.  Now, if you're OK with going with that limitation and forgetting about all the great models that don't have DCC, that's an option.  It's not Kool-Aid, it's reality.

As a long term OGauger, DCC was not on my operating list. However, as part of my long term involvement with wireless systems, during the past two years I delved into the DCC world because of my running the new BlueRail Trains DCC bluetooth board. On the plus side, DCC is a unique world with enormous capabilities. Not so plus is it is somewhat complex and not always so easy to figure out. Another  interesting note: DCC operation can be achieved as either a track signal based system or with a wireless system. In any case, there is a lot of info available on-line and I would strongly suggest reviewing this first if you have an interest in DCC.

Ben:

A good starter book is TM Books/Video 'Modern O Gauge Remote Control' Lionel TMCC and Legacy basics and advanced

@BenLMaggi posted:

I am at the beginning stages of collecting I scale trains for my future layout (though I have some already). But I am doodling around with track plans and such now. Being new to O gauge (three rail), I wasn't aware that you could run conventionally controlled engines with a wireless system which I will definitely want on my layout as it might not be possible to operate it all from one area.

Previously I inquired as to why the mix of command and conventional-only engines in your HO layout.  My curiosity was whether, for example, the conventional-only engines had personal meaning such as your first engine and you wanted to keep it that way, or if you just like the hands-on throttle of conventional control, or it was not readily upgradable to DCC, or whatever.

Likewise, perhaps you want to leave your conventional-only O engines as-is for similar reason(s).

@James Ingram posted:

IMHO, since the Original Poster is already familiar with using the non-proprietary, world standard, DCC system -- he might consider just CONTINUING with DCC.

...

@BenLMaggi posted:

... Is there a way to run conventional control engines using a command system that has a walk-around throttle so that you aren't permanently tethered to one area (loss of some of the fancy sound effects is okay)?.

James brings up an interesting idea.  You could install low-cost DCC decoders into the conventional-only engines.  Then you would have wireless control of your "conventional" engines!

As you commented, if you are willing to give up some of the proverbial "bells and whistles" to achieve walk-around control, there are very reasonably priced DCC decoders with suitable "Amps" of power to drive O engines.  To be sure, it's not as simple as removing the NMRA jumper and plugging in to the decoder socket; I am not aware of any O-gauge engines that have such a simple un-plug, plug, and play conversion from conventional-to-command.  So there would be some DIY wiring, soldering, etc. which can be a show-stopper for some.  But O-gauge engines have so much more internal space to fit the electronics.  So while the scale-ratio is 87:48 or 1.8 times...that's for each dimension (LxWxH).  The internal volume of an O-gauge chassis about 6 times greater than an HO chassis! 

You might need a DCC power booster for O track power.  And perhaps an unused benefit, but this would allow you to run both your HO and O layouts - even at the same time - using a single wireless controller you already have and know how to use.

I'm repeating myself, but I think it's worth pondering the mix-and-match of engines and decoders in the non-proprietary DCC world vs. the proprietary Lionel/MTH systems where you buy both engine and decoder from the same manufacturer.  There are plusses and minuses each way.