BPRC... Battery Power / Remote Control

You can run with battery power on most any layout where the wheels fit the tracks.

I converted a LC+ Camelback to battery power, that's probably the easiest route.  It came in handy when I had track laid but no power yet, it was my test engine to check out all the track.

LC+ Camelback Upgrade to Battery Power

Model boats, cars and lately planes have had battery powered remote control for years.  I built a RC boat in the 1960s with wet cells for power and tube transmitter and receiver.  It still will operate but does have transistor RC now.  Model trains have not to bother with RC as they have constant contact with the powered and controlled tracks.  So RC and battery powered trains should not be that hard to do if one most have it.  Just pick your best option.  Personally I have no interest in keeping train engine batteries charged.

Charlie

PS:  Dennis,    TCA train show 3/4/2023 in Ponchatoula, LA

@Dennis-LaRock.  You don't have to jump into the deep end of the pool.  Start with one and see how you like it.  That is what I did.

I now have 7 but still have Legacy and DCS for my son's and daughters trains.

Why not Blunami?  Don't like the IOS device?  I like another system called RailPro.  Dedicated controller that is very functional.

There is one downside to having BPRC systems with track power systems.  E stop for track will stop all track power.  E stop for battery will stop all battery trains (of the same system).

So when I am alone I avoid running track power and BPRC at the same time.

Ron

Thanks guys!

Ron, No issues with Blunami or any other RC system, I just want to test the water before I dive into the deep end.  However, it seems that an awful lot of boards are no longer available and rather than going the err route... Blunami certainly becomes a very attractive option moving forward.

Now, question two... which battery?  What I'm seeing is a range from 9.6-18vdc that are commonly used for O scale.  Is it a matter of just buying the largest (vdc/mAh) possible battery that will fit or are there other considerations?  Most of my engines have dual motors and I do run some long and heavy consists... i.e., I have a lot of fully die-cast rolling stock.  Lastly, battery recommendations i.e., who makes the best batteries?

UPDATE: I just read through Gunrunner's thread that he referenced above (DUH)... and, it answered a lot of questions.  So, are there any updates/considerations/learning experiences from that thread which is about two and a half years old?

You guys are the BEST!  Thank You!

Within the past year or two, the LCCA magazine had a series of articles on converting a conventional engine to BPRC.  As I recall, it was for basic operation at relatively low cost.  Might be worth checking out.  If you're not a member of LCCA, you could get an electronic membership for a year and access all of their back issues (along with a lot of other digitized paper).

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

UPDATE: I just read through Gunrunner's thread that he referenced above (DUH)... and, it answered a lot of questions.  So, are there any updates/considerations/learning experiences from that thread which is about two and a half years old?

Actually, if I were to do it again, I'd probably consider a similar route.  If you use a newer engine for the conversion, you have the Bluetooth control, and even Legacy will run on DC under Bluetooth control.  The bonus with my converting an existing Lionel engine was that it could easily be switched to track power or battery power.  I was actually somewhat impressed that it ran for almost three hours with smoke on a single charge, that was way longer than I expected.

@Dennis-LaRock  Looking at this from a cost-effective approach of "Let's test and See", LionChief is going to be the most economical update to BPRC if you have an engine you want to convert.  As @gunrunnerjohn states, conversion back to track power is simple also.  Just buy a battery and a charger.  Maybe some accessories like a charge port and an on/off switch if you do not want to remove and replace batteries.

I would assume, although I have no experience, that Legacy engines controlled by Bluetooth would be a close 2nd.  Although some will argue that you lose some of the Legacy functions by operating in BT mode.

For DCS PS3 Premier engines, an option is to simply flip the switch to DCC.  You do not have to buy a whole DCC system.  Just a BlueRail board and of course your battery/charger and accessories like a charge port and on/off switch if you plan to have onboard battery power or a dedicated battery tender car.  I can't say for certain, but I know BlueRail is affected by the supply chain issues right now.  I did this and used the BlueRail board for control and the PS3 system for sounds.  I eventually ripped out the PS3 stuff and replaced the sounds with a Soundtraxx Tsunami sound card.  I fit the battery, BlueRail and Soundtraxx cards and speakers all in the same space the PS3 stuff went and eliminated my battery tender car.

If you have to have sounds, then Blunami is just the combination of BlueRail and Tsunami in one board, about the same size as the original Tsunami board.  Blunami is about $205 and currently you need to use an IOS device.  Android is coming in 2023.

In my personal opinion Lithium-Ion (LiIon) batteries with Printed Circuit Board (PCB) protection are the best batteries for model trains.

Lithium Polumer (LiPo) batteries are great for airplanes, cars and boats that need a lot of power quickly.  They also require balance charging with requires an extra lead.  In the RC plane hobby, we are taught never to charge our Lipo batts in our aircraft.  So this is a non-starter for me with my trains.

NIcd or NIMH batts are safe, but come in a much bigger footprint with a lower capacity.  While they run down they will also put out less voltage, so your train will slow as the battery run downs.  Similar to the way a flashlight will dim as it starts to die.  Lithium batts try to put out a constant voltage until the PCB kicks in and say's, "ok... that's enough, you're done".

There are several vendors for LiIon w/PCB batts.  I was turned on to MTO who actually makes batteries for trains.  I have several and they work great.  You might be able to save a few dollars by buying from vendors like RCS New England @Don Sweet or G Scale Installations vs buying direct from MTO.

There are also a couple of other competitors who make these types of batteries sold by Reindeer Pass and RLD Hobbies.  Just google their names.  Prices will be competitive.  I have also found a vendor in FL that sells these batteries that look and perform the same.   XML batteries sells LiIon with PCB protection at nearly 1/2 the price (sometimes cheaper) than others.  They do not have as many different configurations which limits me from going ALL IN.

For O gauge trains, you can never go wrong with a 14.8v (4 cell) LiIon battery.  The amount of mAh you choose will be depended on the amount of space you have.  The higher the mAh, the bigger the battery.  I have 3000 and 3400 mAh batteries in F7s, SD40, GP38, BL2 and 2-8-0 steam.    They pull great and run for 3+ hours continuous.

You might also be able to get away with smaller 11.1v (3 cell) batteries.  I use a 11.1v with my 44 tonner.  Its worked great and fits the application well.

Another Control system I have not talked about yet is RailPro.  It uses direct radio to communicate and is very simple to use.  Setting up consists of multiple engines is SUPER easy and dependable.  They have a great sound library and any sound (Steam or diesel can be downloaded on the board.  You can also create your own sounds and play them.  Your startup costs are a little higher because you need to buy the controller (Around $226 from TimberRiver Hobbies).  The RailPro board with sound is inexpensive ($138 at Timber River Hobbies). 

For simplicity I like RailPro.  Although a wish they would engineer a better E-Stop function.  I have found that Blunami just has some really cool features I like also.  So they are both up high on my list.  There are probably a half dozen or more systems conducive for BPRC, but I do not have any experience with them.  Mr. BPRC is @BOB WALKER.

Please feel free to reach out to me if I can be of any help.  My email is in my profile.

vr
Ron

@Ron045 posted:

I would assume, although I have no experience, that Legacy engines controlled by Bluetooth would be a close 2nd.  Although some will argue that you lose some of the Legacy functions by operating in BT mode.

The beauty of my dual-power approach is that you can switch to rail power with AC and run the Legacy engine with full capability.  That's why I like the idea for a simple first conversion to get your feet wet.

OGR is so much better than culling through all the varying alternatives that are out there and trying to figure out the path to travel.

Looking around the house, tool shed, train room there seem to be an innumerable number LiIon batteries charging their little butts off 24/7.  I guess for testing purposes the XML 14.8v 2800 mAh (14.8v 3500 mAh is Sold Out). Dimensions: 2.75" x 1.41" x 1.41"  * 2 Prong @ 23 bucks with free shipping seems to be a decent test candidate.

What are you guys using for a Charging Station... i.e., Wall Wart, Connectors, Plugs & Switches etc., for 'On-Board' Charging?

OH BTW!!!  John,  I bought the Fluke 117 a month or so ago... thanks for the input on that!

For what it's worth, I buy all my batteries from Battery Junction.  They sell a lot of Tenergy batteries.

There are coupon codes almost always for at least 5% and shipping is free over $50.

Not sure how it compares, but the Tenergy NiMH battery John showed above is here, although for that battery no coupon codes are allowed.

John

I just mounted a connector on the tender where the battery was to charge it.  You should charge the lithium battery with the proper charger that won't overcharge it, that could get exciting!

MTO Smart Charger is great for LiIons.  Plug and play, red charge, green full.  You might need to make a new lead to connect the battery.

https://gscaleinstallations.net/battery-chargers

Or you could just buy this equivalent which has the proper lead.

https://www.rldhobbies.com/hje-4sc.aspx

WARNING!!!

Tripple check your XML battery black and red leads.  It's possible you may have to reverse them depending on the charger you get.  It's a simple reverse of the wires using an xacto knife to push the metal tab.  BUT... be sure the wires do not touch. The PCB should protect damage but I would not want to test it. MTO company did a video purposely shorting a battery to show how the PCB works. 

This is the lead connector you want that will mate nicely with the charger.

Some XMLs come with this lead and some do not.  You can buy these from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...ge?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Great info

@Dennis-LaRock You mention you run Legacy. Are your trains two rail or three rail? if three rail why consider a battery? AC to DC convertors with enough current capacity can be had for much less than a battery. Dirty track is rarely an issue in three rail. Two rail or running outdoors may be a different story.

Pete

Along the lines of what Pete said... the AC to DC converter takes up much less space than a battery, too.  Battery power would let you remove the center rail for improved appearance, but you have to modify 3-rail track.  Starting with 2-rail track is a bad idea, because 3-rail flanges are too large for best operation on 2-rail switches.  And unfortunately the wheelsets on most 3-rail equipment aren't easily replaced.  Either way you have a lot of work ahead of you!

Battery power is currently taking off in popularity. I have done over 16 battery powered wireless control conversions using a number of different control systems all of which worked well. The articles in the LCCA magazine on battery power were written by me. JRG's approach of retaining a track power input channel is a good one. Ron045's reports are excellent. Smart device app control has a lot going for it, but may not be for everyone and there are some really nice hand-held controllers. With the latest release of SoundTraxx's Blunami4408, there are now control systems available that are compatible with battery power and will handle virtually any size loco.

@Norton posted:

@Dennis-LaRock You mention you run Legacy. Are your trains two rail or three rail? if three rail why consider a battery? AC to DC convertors with enough current capacity can be had for much less than a battery. Dirty track is rarely an issue in three rail. Two rail or running outdoors may be a different story.

Pete

Pete,  I'm three rail... this is just me exercising my curiosity ...sort-of like Gunrunner experimenting with battery power.   I now have the MTO Charger & XML battery as per Ron's suggestion.  When I get to it is now the bigger question!

@Ted S posted:

Either way you have a lot of work ahead of you!

Open your mind Ted.  It does not have to be a lot of work and it does not have to be all or nothing.

Ron

No offense Ron.  What I meant, is that if you wanted to: (1) physically remove the center rail from all of your 3-rail track and switches; or (2) install 2-rail track, and systematically replace the wheelsets on all of your locomotives and cars, then Yes, that would be a lot of work.  And it pretty much would have to be all-or-nothing, since stock 3-rail locos and cars with center rail pickups and high flanges wouldn't work in the modified environment.

I am fairly open-minded, and I can see the beauty in switching to battery power if you want to run outdoors, or just can't live with the 3rd rail.  But if someone is content to stick with their 3-rail track on an existing indoor layout, it just seems easier and cheaper to install a voltage conditioner ahead of the receiver.  I've seen plenty of cases where TMCC and DCS locos lose their signal and stall due to layout wiring issues, ground plane issues, etc.  But any of the direct R/C systems we're discussing shouldn't have those problems.  I've personally never encountered a problem with track power that couldn't be solved with an extra pickup roller or a tether.  So that's my perspective.

No offense taken.  Just trying to educate those who for some reason believe that they have to abandon what they have to try something new.  Too often I hear, "I have xxx number of locos.  I could never upgrade all of those. That would be too costly". 

Users can run BPRC right along with their DCS, Legacy, TMCC, LionChief and conventional.

Ron

Would battery power vs. track power eliminate fried loco electronics? If yes, I’d consider that a huge benefit.

One of the advantages of battery power is there is not much chance of accidental overvoltage applied to a control board since the battery voltage is fairly constant. But if there is a defective component on a particular board, battery power can also do some damage so it is not a complete solution.

@Mark V. Spadaro posted:

Would battery power vs. track power eliminate fried loco electronics? If yes, I’d consider that a huge benefit.

If you just use a bridge and a cap then there might be a risk to the board as any voltage spike will pass through the rectifier but if you use a convertor then that should isolate the control board from any spikes. In addition you can add a TVS to the input of the convertor to bring the odds close to zero.

Pete