Can regular lionel be converted to DC

These will both run on DC without modification.  A whistle or horn, if equipped, will sound continuously with the direction button in one position, and will be silent in the opposite direction for electronic sounds, & will sound continuously on DC for older mechanical whistles/horns.  Just disconnect the sound board or device to stop it.

Rob, there's no sound boards on these two and though I haven't cracked the K-line 4-6-2 steamer open{and I need to since the darn front truck loves derailing}, the lionel has nothing other than the AC motor truck{other is a P/U truck only} and the cam reverser{f/n/r} relay/solenoid...whatever the PC name for that is.

Can that really run on DC? Maybe I need a pic of it to aid in the q/a thing here...

"E-unit" is the reversing unit.  It will run perfectly on DC.  It will even maintain reverse sequencing as built, and you can still lock it into forward or reverse as desired using the lever by the fuel tank.

Yes BR, ADCX Rob is correct,  I have many 3 rail engines that I have run on DC power just as they are.  However, you can't run DC engines on AC. 

 

Rick

You won't be converting those with AC motors to DCS, at least I know of no product that does that.  You can upgrade them to TMCC command/control.

 

AFAIK, K-Line never had any AC motored locomotives.

1.) Frank Tempco in Beavercreek, Ohio can do AC to DC motor change from there you can do Proto 2

2.) In a booklet included with a 1952 berkshire set it said if you run your trains with DC and an E-unit the E-unit will become magnetized and stop working properly of course with DC reversing the polarity will reverse the direction.

 

Scott

Not with a series wound universal motor(Lionel style).

And then you aren't running an AC motor anymore, right?

Wow, never knew this stuff...always thought AC was AC and one couldn't run an AC motor on DC current except for the newer, willaims types and the like that had DC can motors and a bridge rectifier for AC power input that could take DC anyway.

 

Scott, anybody, got any input on the change over to proto2 on one of these.

 

Honestly never cracked open the K-line steamer so I "assumed" it was an AC motor...oops.  

 

I've seen there's an electronic conversion out there, somewhere, to convert the lionels cam e-unit to an electronic e-unit...alot less buzzing then.

Adding, all I have for DC controllers right now is a bachmann EZ commander and the dynamis system. with the later purchased for better CV controlling on my On30 bachmann engines.

Dallee indeed does have electronic reverse boards for AC motors, the model 400 is a cost effective model, they also have a monster board with 10A capability.

 

You can install the PS/2 upgrade kit in virtually any DC motored locomotive with one or two motors.  I've installed them in both steamers and diesels.

I have a Lionel Shakespeare Express and contacted Lionel about whether or not I could run it on DC.  They told me it might damage circuit boards in the loco but no specifics.  Does anyone have more info re-this issue.  I have other British prototype 3 rail engines that run on DC and would like to run everything together.   thanks,  bertiejoa

Ah, see, theres a good reason for me to try and convert the lionel to DC because if she can be ran with a proto2 board, then I should theoretically be able to run DCS - right?...and if the K-line has a DC can motor she could be outfitted with a proto2 and do the same.

Right?

It probably won't harm a thing, as the first set of components encountered by incoming track power on a Lionel electronic reverse unit is four diodes arranged in a full wave bridge.  AC or DC(+ or -) is all seen as the same thing by the loco.

 

As for sound systems, DC will cause erratic or no operation.

Locomotives with electronic reverse boards or TMCC will quite possibly be damaged by DC operation.

I'd figure that with the newer engines running electronic boards that my be the case, but mine is the old school frame with nothing but the power truck, pickup truck and cam actuated reverser...oh, and two lights. 

Bertiejoa, what engine do you have..."model number wise"?

The existing motor can also be run like a can motor(polarity reversible) by wiring in a full wave bridge rectifier in series with either the field or the armature.  That part is simple, although somewhat comparatively power hungry.  The tough part would be the need for a flywheel or rotating drum for the optical tape and reader.

 

Possibly - again with the optical tape and reader considerations, and the understanding that a tether will be required as the PS2 components will need to be located in the tender.

Probably not.

Probably.

I'd be careful making those recommendations.  From every Legacy manual I look in.

Power your locomotive with an alternating-current (AC) transformer only. Powering your locomotive with a direct-current (DC) transformer, or in excess of 19 volts AC, may result in damage to sensitive electronic components.

Looks a little different in a TMCC manual, but the same idea.

Do not power your locomotive with a direct-current (DC) transformer. Damage to sensitive electronic components may occur.

I can't say what, if any damage will occur, and I'm not about to find out.

He doesn't have any TMCC locos, and yes, TMCC is AC only.

He does want to run that GP-9 with the AC motor on DCS, that's not going to happen without a motor transplant.

John, there might be answer confusion between my and bertiejoa's questions here...bertiejoa was concerned about the electronic boards via lionels reply to him...I got no boards so that's not a problem for me...cept the AC motor thing and wanting to try the proto2 sound/control on my end.

Rob was commenting on bertiejoa's post.

Nice to see this thread might help someone else out too... 

This may be a silly question, but doesn't DCS work on AC power too? 

Only because of the difficulty in equipping it with a flywheel for the optical tape.  The motor can be wired to reverse direction with polarity just like a can motor, so the lack of a can motor is not the limiting factor.  If the optical reader can read the motor speed by any other method, like a tape and/or insert for the armature poles, it can be done.

DCS will run on AC or DC.

 

Well, I've seen multiple threads on the topic, and it's never been accomplished.  Even if possible, which I'm not convinced, I think the difficulty of making it happen just isn't worth the trouble.

I agree.  Someone will do it, though.

Thanks John. I'm just a bit puzzled as to why he wants to go to all the trouble of trying to convert the Lionel locomotives to DC power, when MTH with DCS work under AC too. Why not just run the MTH locomotives on AC with DCS? 

I'm curious about your wiring to reverse direction with polarity on an AC motor without using an E-Unit, care to show us that?

They're conventional, and if he wants to convert them to DCS, he needs to have a DC motor that has a flywheel for the encoder tape.

Thanks. Now I understand.  (It's late here, my brain must be shutting down for the night. )

You can come up with a better excuse than that, right?

Nope!   Sudden brain death is my best excuse tonight. 

John

 

  This is how I did about 40 years ago. I hated F-N-R-N-F

 

I had a nice dc power supply. Center rail DC hot outer DC common.

 

I'll have to look at that.   One issue with this scheme is typically the Pulmor motors suck down more power than the can motors.  I wonder if the back-EMF speed control would work with the ERR Cruise Commander with this scheme?

A little more info on your layout would go a long way here. You mentioned you were picking up a DCS Commander. Are you getting the full blown DCS setup or just the remote commander which I believe allows you to access many of the Proto 2 engines functions but still is conventional control. If you are going the DCS route with a TIU and have 2 separate loops. Pick up another power brick. Run your Proto 2 engines in command on fixed 1 and your Lionel , K-Line , etc. on one of the variable channels. To Convert engines your not that fond of to Proto 2 is pretty costly. There may be better options as far as controlling your trains. Your original post seems that your goal is to run everything with one remote.

Burl Route:  I recently converted a 1950 Lionel #736 Berkshire to DCS.  The series wound motor would run happily on either AC or DC, & I could have inserted a full wave rectifier between armature winding and field winding, to make it reversible without an E-unit by reversing polarity through the PS2 board.  However, I was stumped by the issue of how to mount a tach sensor tape, and eventually went the Frank Timko motor change route, buying a can motor from him.  His prices are reasonable. 

 

I then gutted the loco & tender and installed PS2, the board going into the tender.  These efforts were detailed, with pictures, in 2 threads within the last couple of months on the DCS forum.

 

I am having a non-DCS problem in that, at slow speeds, there is a noticeable binding on each driver revolution.  Having a problem pinpointing the cause.  But it does run slower than it would under Lionel conventional, which is why the poroblem hasn't shown up until now.  I have another old Lionel, a C&O diesel switcher, that is awaiting my hand. I'm not sure if it's worth the effort

 

Note that the #736 & the #624 are worm gear locos.  I don't think one can get a replacement motor for the Lionel side-frame, spur-gear locos.

 

The #624 has been my test loco for many years.  In late 90's I had it set up so the e-unit wouldn't activate until 20 volts was applied to the track, and holding the 20 volts for 2 seconds would operate the couplers.  Later on, I installed a full wave rectifier and large capacitors to provide smooth DC to the motor.

Actually, the DCS Remote Commander runs the locomotive in DCS mode, it is not a conventional controller.  It's just hard-wired to only operate a locomotive that has been factory reset.  It is in no way a conventional controller.

Burlington Route.

The answer is YES! and the direction will be controlled changing the rails polarity.

here is the diagram.

Andre.

I think Boxcar Bill beat you to the answer.