Can this be fixed? ZW transformer

It looks like the large gear has shifted outward on its shaft.

It may have lost or broken the pin or screw that holds it in place.

As long as the gears are not stripped it should be a easy fix, to replace the setscrew or add a new pin.

These are "toys" not industrial tools- just priced like them.

Now, I spoke to Lionel about 3 months ago concerning mine, ZW-C and the customer service lady fixed me up with the upgrade module as I run Legacy equipment. I asked about sending my transformer in for service and her comment was, if we can not repair it, they would offer me a replacement ZW-L, for $400. So, that would be an option possibly for you. The reason I mentioned this is you would probably pay $300 or more for a used one and have the same problem down the road.  I still use the 180 watt bricks with the TPC 400’s to operate my layout....Good Luck..

The large gear "should" stay in place after putting the handle on and putting the pin in place.  The gear it is supposed to spin (small top one toward the back) does not spin freely.  If that can be replaced, I'm probably golden... if it can be replaced...

leapinlarry posted:

Now, I spoke to Lionel about 3 months ago concerning mine, ZW-C and the customer service lady fixed me up with the upgrade module as I run Legacy equipment. I asked about sending my transformer in for service and her comment was, if we can not repair it, they would offer me a replacement ZW-L, for $400. So, that would be an option possibly for you. The reason I mentioned this is you would probably pay $300 or more for a used one and have the same problem down the road.  I still use the 180 watt bricks with the TPC 400’s to operate my layout....Good Luck..

I hope that's not the direction they go... when it looks like if that top gear mechanism can be replaced that would do the trick.  It would probably just further the disappointment if Lionel couldn't sell that part and wanted to try selling me a whole new transformer instead.

you know if it is the set screw is loose or missing you could drill threw the shaft and install a roll pin and probably forget about it forever roll pins rarely break especially in this toy application! as long as your gentle and not rough moving your throttle a roll pin will last!

the problem with set screw they will all eventually become loose threw time and vibration or just by moving the throttle normally. roll pin is hardened and should last!

But the real problem as reported by the OP is that one of the small gears driving the pots is very stiff, kind of like it is trying to seize up. I wonder if some light oil on the shaft might help that out? The guts of the pot may be causing the seizing depending on if its wire wound or carbon. The pot may have to be replaced with a standard commercial pot. I don't know about Lionel, but the MTH Z4k pots are pretty standard stuff.

Rod

Its been a long time since I have watched this Lionel Video, but I though there is some mention about the transformer gears. I on the way out, so I don't have a chance to rewatch now, so thought I would just post it.

 https://www.lionelsupport.com/....cfm?documentID=6398

Edit: since the lionel link to the video did not play, here is the youtube link, which I was able to start playing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5A-KFr5SS4

Looks like some parts are still available,  the video does not come up.

Here is the link to the parts page.  

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...AF2-82DBA4FFF2DD9BF8

That's great that your 70 year old transformer still works!  However,  I don't that that comment adds anything to your post on help for a 15  to 20 year old item.   

Here is a link to the Lionel  video referenced in the above post.

Larry

  I'm guessing the pot at the end of the sm gear is part of the issue at least. Unplugged try to pull the gear away from the pot and see if it begins turning smoother. I'm guessing side thrusts pushed pretty hard on the pot. shaft.

  So maybe the pot is bad maybe not.... the issue of thrust inside pots being bad is kinda a given it seems.

  Simple fix; add a couple of thrust washers between the gear and pot. shaft's threaded collar &colar nut. That way as side thrusts build, the washers limit distance the gear and shaft can ever be pressed into pot.  You could use nylon washers if youd feel better. 

 The same side thrusts pull on the shafts as well, but pulling away from the pot usually doesnt put as much strain on the contacts.  If you wanted to get nuts a thrust stop could be made off the frame to prevent the sm gear from pulling...but but really that idea looks better applied on the big gear. 

  You're ignoring the loose handle, the looseness likely created more side thusts that took out the pot. Its possible a stiff pot helped it work it's way apart too. The neglect leaves that either/or question vs a diagnosis of any "real" design flaw imo.

Adriatic posted:

  I'm guessing the pot at the end of the sm gear is part of the issue at least. Unplugged try to pull the gear away from the pot and see if it begins turning smoother. I'm guessing side thrusts pushed pretty hard on the pot. shaft.

  So maybe the pot is bad maybe not.... the issue of thrust inside pots being bad is kinda a given it seems.

  Simple fix; add a couple of thrust washers between the gear and pot. shaft's threaded collar &colar nut. That way as side thrusts build, the washers limit distance the gear and shaft can ever be pressed into pot.  You could use nylon washers if youd feel better. 

 The same side thrusts pull on the shafts as well, but pulling away from the pot usually doesnt put as much strain on the contacts.  If you wanted to get nuts a thrust stop could be made off the frame to prevent the sm gear from pulling...but but really that idea looks better applied on the big gear. 

  You're ignoring the loose handle, the looseness likely created more side thusts that took out the pot. Its possible a stiff pot helped it work it's way apart too. The neglect leaves that either/or question vs a diagnosis of any "real" design flaw imo.

I'll look into giving that a try today... I want to thank everyone replying as well.  I'm hoping and leaning towards you guys being spot on about the pot.  Whether it's the internals of it and needing to replace it, or like you mentioned and just adding washers.  As for ignoring the looseness, well, I babied it as best I could.  I took it to an authorized shop that used to be in this area, the only one actually, and they said there was nothing I could do and was out of luck.  So, I continued being as gentle as possible.  I wish I didn't take their word for it and jumped on this forum back then.  Still, you guys are being extremely helpful and I am appreciative.

Brewman1973 posted:

Looks like some parts are still available,  the video does not come up.

Here is the link to the parts page.  

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...AF2-82DBA4FFF2DD9BF8

That's great that your 70 year old transformer still works!  However,  I don't that that comment adds anything to your post on help for a 15  to 20 year old item.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stupid question, is the "potentiometer" (item 45 in the link) the pot that may be in question here?  The full assembly (item 14) is no longer available.

And no, that comment didn't add... I'm just frustrated about this.

Well. I'd start down low. I actually see that lower gear being pushed off as a weak link.

Figure out how to re- secure that lower gear again... or make it better (roll pin, set screw divit, lock-tite on whats there (if applicable), etc.. Maybe try that standoff post idea or similar "fill block" off the frame so it simply can't slide off, etc.. 

The top gear and pot. is kinda it's own issue; very common place "cave man" mechanical; set the end play by setting the gear against washers on the pot.axle...all done.. easier access overall too, outside of maybe some experience soldering in a swap if needed( not too hard really) 

A thick, washer sized, threaded, control panel dress-up bezel vs the nut used to hold the pot on could provide a wider thrust suface than the collar. Thicker than nuts normally, the collar could be left lower than the bezel surface. "Instant flange" (actually a "race" I think?)

The question is can you do it, or can you find someone handy enough to pull it off economically?

It is doubtful that no equal to it exists. Its time to look for markings on what it there, and or measuring a good one (electrically and mechanically)

leapinlarry posted:

Now, I spoke to Lionel about 3 months ago concerning mine, ZW-C and the customer service lady fixed me up with the upgrade module as I run Legacy equipment. I asked about sending my transformer in for service and her comment was, if we can not repair it, they would offer me a replacement ZW-L, for $400. So, that would be an option possibly for you. The reason I mentioned this is you would probably pay $300 or more for a used one and have the same problem down the road.  I still use the 180 watt bricks with the TPC 400’s to operate my layout....Good Luck..

Are the offering to exchange the ZW-C with or without the bricks. If I can Exchange my troublesome ZW-C for $400.00 for a ZW-L and keep the 2 180 watt bricks I would jump on this in a heartbeat. 

Forest, I do not know the answer about the bricks, my thoughts would be call the customer service department and ask, they are wanting to help. The ZWL is a great transformer.  If your a command operator, the ZW-C with upgrade is fine. Good luck. 

Once again gentlemen, I greatly appreciate all your feedback.  Unfortunately, it cannot be fixed. The plastic pieces that the pot assembly screw too were actually snapped off.  So even if I had new pots, or swapped them one side to another (the pots not assembly), can't screw the assembly down.  I doubt super glue or putty or anything would hold the thing in place... I'd like to be wrong.  I'm pretty bummed and not sure next steps...  don't need a ZW-L and don't plan on dropping 900 for it either.  If people have thoughts on what to pick up, I'm running a New York Central J1-e Hudson/Vanderbilt (6-18056) with it and one day hoped to add a Tuscan Red Vision Line GG-1.  Right now, I'd just like to be able to run the Hudson again.

Thank you again and a very Merry Christmas to all and Happy New Year.  Please, if you have ideas on transformers, I would like to hear them.

WORK AROUND--I managed to get the DU side working   So I have to have both bricks connected and on, at least the train is running.  Still would like a new transformer, but for now, Christmas just came early!

KenH75 posted:

Once again gentlemen, I greatly appreciate all your feedback.  Unfortunately, it cannot be fixed. The plastic pieces that the pot assembly screw too were actually snapped off.  So even if I had new pots, or swapped them one side to another (the pots not assembly), can't screw the assembly down.  I doubt super glue or putty or anything would hold the thing in place... I'd like to be wrong.  I'm pretty bummed and not sure next steps...  don't need a ZW-L and don't plan on dropping 900 for it either.  If people have thoughts on what to pick up, I'm running a New York Central J1-e Hudson/Vanderbilt (6-18056) with it and one day hoped to add a Tuscan Red Vision Line GG-1.  Right now, I'd just like to be able to run the Hudson again.

Thank you again and a very Merry Christmas to all and Happy New Year.  Please, if you have ideas on transformers, I would like to hear them.

 

WORK AROUND--I managed to get the DU side working   So I have to have both bricks connected and on, at least the train is running.  Still would like a new transformer, but for now, Christmas just came early!

If you want a modern power supply the Z4000 is a good option. Otherwise a reconditioned Postwar ZW with external circuit breakers or fuses is a good option. I have one and it will run two twin Pullmor motored F3s for an hour or two with no problem.

hi if you want me to give it a shot I have a friend that could possibly make the gears, I would be glad to try and fix it for you. worth the effort if you would like.

KenH75 posted:

Once again gentlemen, I greatly appreciate all your feedback.  Unfortunately, it cannot be fixed. The plastic pieces that the pot assembly screw too were actually snapped off.  So even if I had new pots, or swapped them one side to another (the pots not assembly), can't screw the assembly down.  I doubt super glue or putty or anything would hold the thing in place... I'd like to be wrong.  I'm pretty bummed and not sure next steps...  don't need a ZW-L and don't plan on dropping 900 for it either.  If people have thoughts on what to pick up, I'm running a New York Central J1-e Hudson/Vanderbilt (6-18056) with it and one day hoped to add a Tuscan Red Vision Line GG-1.  Right now, I'd just like to be able to run the Hudson again.

Thank you again and a very Merry Christmas to all and Happy New Year.  Please, if you have ideas on transformers, I would like to hear them.

 

WORK AROUND--I managed to get the DU side working   So I have to have both bricks connected and on, at least the train is running.  Still would like a new transformer, but for now, Christmas just came early!

So those black plastic mounts that the pots mount to are broken? I take it the screw holes on the bottom of the plastic mounts are broken?

cjack posted:

KenH75 posted:

Once again gentlemen, I greatly appreciate all your feedback.  Unfortunately, it cannot be fixed. The plastic pieces that the pot assembly screw too were actually snapped off.  So even if I had new pots, or swapped them one side to another (the pots not assembly), can't screw the assembly down.  I doubt super glue or putty or anything would hold the thing in place... I'd like to be wrong.  I'm pretty bummed and not sure next steps...  don't need a ZW-L and don't plan on dropping 900 for it either.  If people have thoughts on what to pick up, I'm running a New York Central J1-e Hudson/Vanderbilt (6-18056) with it and one day hoped to add a Tuscan Red Vision Line GG-1.  Right now, I'd just like to be able to run the Hudson again.

Thank you again and a very Merry Christmas to all and Happy New Year.  Please, if you have ideas on transformers, I would like to hear them.

 

WORK AROUND--I managed to get the DU side working   So I have to have both bricks connected and on, at least the train is running.  Still would like a new transformer, but for now, Christmas just came early!

So those black plastic mounts that the pots mount to are broken? I take it the screw holes on the bottom of the plastic mounts are broken?

Both actually.  The left, or closest to the "off" side, the hole for the assembly broke off.  The right, closest to "on", the bottom where it attaches broke off.

Lou1985 posted:

KenH75 posted:

Once again gentlemen, I greatly appreciate all your feedback.  Unfortunately, it cannot be fixed. The plastic pieces that the pot assembly screw too were actually snapped off.  So even if I had new pots, or swapped them one side to another (the pots not assembly), can't screw the assembly down.  I doubt super glue or putty or anything would hold the thing in place... I'd like to be wrong.  I'm pretty bummed and not sure next steps...  don't need a ZW-L and don't plan on dropping 900 for it either.  If people have thoughts on what to pick up, I'm running a New York Central J1-e Hudson/Vanderbilt (6-18056) with it and one day hoped to add a Tuscan Red Vision Line GG-1.  Right now, I'd just like to be able to run the Hudson again.

Thank you again and a very Merry Christmas to all and Happy New Year.  Please, if you have ideas on transformers, I would like to hear them.

 

WORK AROUND--I managed to get the DU side working   So I have to have both bricks connected and on, at least the train is running.  Still would like a new transformer, but for now, Christmas just came early!

If you want a modern power supply the Z4000 is a good option. Otherwise a reconditioned Postwar ZW with external circuit breakers or fuses is a good option. I have one and it will run two twin Pullmor motored F3s for an hour or two with no problem.

Thank you!  Will definitely look into those options.

Alan Mancus posted:

hi if you want me to give it a shot I have a friend that could possibly make the gears, I would be glad to try and fix it for you. worth the effort if you would like.

Appreciate that but it's more than just the gears that are the issue...   the screw hole on the pot assembly, and the mount hole where the assembly attaches have broken...

Plastic sucks when it comes to the dynamics of applied repetitive force or exertion over extended trials and  periods of time.  

Ok, so you can't fix it "properly".  But if you run command and the pot works enough, remove the gear(s) and set it by hand to 18v.  I.e.,  I think it still might be worth it to change the pot depending on the layout.  Not perfect, but perfectly suited to what you may need

Is he running TMCC? I thought it was conventional.

cjack posted:

Is he running TMCC? I thought it was conventional.

I'm still conventional.  I want to graduate to TMCC but haven't quite justified the cost to my wife yet... I mean it's on the birthday and Christmas list every year